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INTEREST: Tatsuya Tops Irregular at Magic High School Character Popularity Poll


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AiddonValentine



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 2204
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:24 pm Reply with quote
Ryan Ashfyre wrote:


OP, you say? No, Kirito is OP. Tatsuya is a living god with perfect offense, defense, and support skills. He's like Saitama, only he's not funny or amusing to watch.

Secondly, you note his struggle between his devotion to his sister and the world, saying that people are trying to treat him like a tool, but then you never take the next step to the logical conclusion. He is a tool. He does allow himself to be used. There is no actual struggle between him and those who use him. Tatsuya, insofar as we saw him in the anime, just tried not to upset the apple cart and kept the status quo in place.

What is the status quo? It's boring. No one likes things staying the same, not in anime and not in life. Had Tatsuya shown some honest-to-goodness rebellion and actually had to choose between his sister and the world, Mahouka could've actually been really interesting to watch, but it never goes there, and it never really seems to try.


If I were to compare Tatsuya to anything, it's like the production team read Vampire Hunter D but came away with the wrong ideas about why D works and is interesting in spite of his godlike power and martial prowess. 1) He's more of a guide than a character. He's meant to show the reader this interesting, unique world and that really shows through 2) He's always kept at arms length with the reader. In spite of him being the central character, we still don't know much about D and as such he has this air of mystery about him that the reader will never be able to see through.

There's of course more to it than that. Tatsuya could have been interesting character, but he's really just shallow. I can't really call him wish fulfillment because he isn't relatable in the slightest nor can I call him escapist because he's shackled to a pretty mundane setting. There have been tons of impressive characters in fiction that have worked (Edmond Dantes, DMC's Dante, D, Space Adventure Cobra, Alucard, The Man With No Name, Sanjuro, etc) but Tatsuya really lacks that bit of charisma or intrigue to make him interesting.
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ETX



Joined: 27 Jun 2014
Posts: 344
Location: England
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:23 pm Reply with quote
Still waiting for that Season 2 announcement. Sure it's Madhouse, but I'm hoping with One Punch Man getting a 2nd season, they'll be perhaps "slightly" more inclined to take not of other popular series. Mahouka could do with another season despite all the naysayers.
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AksaraKishou



Joined: 16 May 2015
Posts: 1410
Location: End of the World
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:26 pm Reply with quote
AiddonValentine wrote:
Ryan Ashfyre wrote:


OP, you say? No, Kirito is OP. Tatsuya is a living god with perfect offense, defense, and support skills. He's like Saitama, only he's not funny or amusing to watch.

Secondly, you note his struggle between his devotion to his sister and the world, saying that people are trying to treat him like a tool, but then you never take the next step to the logical conclusion. He is a tool. He does allow himself to be used. There is no actual struggle between him and those who use him. Tatsuya, insofar as we saw him in the anime, just tried not to upset the apple cart and kept the status quo in place.

What is the status quo? It's boring. No one likes things staying the same, not in anime and not in life. Had Tatsuya shown some honest-to-goodness rebellion and actually had to choose between his sister and the world, Mahouka could've actually been really interesting to watch, but it never goes there, and it never really seems to try.


If I were to compare Tatsuya to anything, it's like the production team read Vampire Hunter D but came away with the wrong ideas about why D works and is interesting in spite of his godlike power and martial prowess. 1) He's more of a guide than a character. He's meant to show the reader this interesting, unique world and that really shows through 2) He's always kept at arms length with the reader. In spite of him being the central character, we still don't know much about D and as such he has this air of mystery about him that the reader will never be able to see through.

There's of course more to it than that. Tatsuya could have been interesting character, but he's really just shallow. I can't really call him wish fulfillment because he isn't relatable in the slightest nor can I call him escapist because he's shackled to a pretty mundane setting. There have been tons of impressive characters in fiction that have worked (Edmond Dantes, DMC's Dante, D, Space Adventure Cobra, Alucard, The Man With No Name, Sanjuro, etc) but Tatsuya really lacks that bit of charisma or intrigue to make him interesting.


There's a fix for your last problem tbh. Read the LN. I think the Review written here on ANN does a good job underlining the problem with the adaptation. That said, i'm not saying Mahouka's perfect by any stretch. I'm just saying that's its better than it's given credit for.
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T.Silver



Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 163
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:23 pm Reply with quote
[quote="AiddonValentine"]
Ryan Ashfyre wrote:
If I were to compare Tatsuya to anything, it's like the production team read Vampire Hunter D but came away with the wrong ideas about why D works and is interesting in spite of his godlike power and martial prowess. 1) He's more of a guide than a character. He's meant to show the reader this interesting, unique world and that really shows through 2) He's always kept at arms length with the reader. In spite of him being the central character, we still don't know much about D and as such he has this air of mystery about him that the reader will never be able to see through.

1) He does play a part in that, but the narration does that far more than he does, so labeling that as his main role in the story is a stretch to say the least.

2)What are you talking about? Through his inner monologues and narration we get to know his personality and his thought/feelings on all sorts of things and as the story progresses, we get to learn more about him too. Sure there are still some mysteries about him yet to be brought to light, but that doesn't mean they won't be revealed later on.
Quote:
There's of course more to it than that. Tatsuya could have been interesting character, but he's really just shallow. I can't really call him wish fulfillment because he isn't relatable in the slightest nor can I call him escapist because he's shackled to a pretty mundane setting. There have been tons of impressive characters in fiction that have worked (Edmond Dantes, DMC's Dante, D, Space Adventure Cobra, Alucard, The Man With No Name, Sanjuro, etc) but Tatsuya really lacks that bit of charisma or intrigue to make him interesting.
How is he shallow exactly? You make that claim, but based off his character in the novels, he's the opposite and is more of a complex character. Hell you said it yourself that there's a lot that you still don't know about him, so isn't it hypocritical to label him as shallow? Plus the fact that he is mysterious automatically takes off the shallow label, because a sense of mystery means there is more to this character than what meets the eye, and that doesn't fit a shallow character.

He isn't completely unrelatable, as he has a lot of cynical outlooks on the world that a fair share of people can agree and relate to. Otherwise I'll agree with you on this one, that he's neither a wish fulfillment or an escapist character.

You don't need to have charisma to be an interesting character. Besides the fact that charisma is more aligned with entertainment purposes. His intrigue comes from his personality and the mysterious air around him.

I'm guessing you'r someone who just watched the anime and barely touched the novels. If your evaluation was about his character in the anime, then I wouldn't have bothered responding, since the anime butchered his character, but it seems to me that you read at least the 1st volume, since you used "reader" instead of "watcher" and evaluated his character based on that, which is absurd to begin with since basing a character of that little of context. Or the other option, you're just a troll who only watched the anime, but are pretending to have read the LN, in order to give "credit" to your claims.
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FilthyCasual



Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 2190
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:48 am Reply with quote
AksaraKishou wrote:
>other

You make it sound as if there's even one of those....

If you somehow manage to kill Tatsuya, He Who Has Returned From Heaven To Save Feeble Mankind, then he autorezzes no worse for wear. Assumably he can die from old age, but other than that, how is that not immortality?
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AksaraKishou



Joined: 16 May 2015
Posts: 1410
Location: End of the World
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:00 am Reply with quote
FilthyCasual wrote:
AksaraKishou wrote:
>other

You make it sound as if there's even one of those....

If you somehow manage to kill Tatsuya, He Who Has Returned From Heaven To Save Feeble Mankind, then he autorezzes no worse for wear. Assumably he can die from old age, but other than that, how is that not immortality?


I assume you're joking, cause even the anime explained this crap. He doesn't resuscitate... He merely "heals" before dying. Blow up his head, where he performs his magic, and he'll stay dead. <.<

Also, didn't you read/watch the SCENE where Miyuki specifically states that while he can heal others, he must first experience their pain time dozens of times?

At this point i think people just saw some memes floating around and somehow thought they saw the anime/read the LN. <.<
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T.Silver



Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 163
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:05 am Reply with quote
FilthyCasual wrote:
AksaraKishou wrote:
>other

You make it sound as if there's even one of those....

If you somehow manage to kill Tatsuya, He Who Has Returned From Heaven To Save Feeble Mankind, then he autorezzes no worse for wear. Assumably he can die from old age, but other than that, how is that not immortality?
His magic can only bring back the dead if there is chance of resuscitation. Regrowth only restores the physical spectrum and not the spiritual.
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AiddonValentine



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 2204
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:17 am Reply with quote
AksaraKishou wrote:


There's a fix for your last problem tbh. Read the LN. I think the Review written here on ANN does a good job underlining the problem with the adaptation. That said, i'm not saying Mahouka's perfect by any stretch. I'm just saying that's its better than it's given credit for.


You keep going on and on about that to the point where it sounds like you're begging people for it. Look, the series isn't exactly lighting the America on fire and for very good reasons. Tatsuya is dull, the brother-sister incest is really irritating when it isn't outright creepy, and then there are its political themes which are highly uncomfortable. I know enough about the actual source material and even if the anime was a weak adaptation, the source material isn't exactly Yoshiki Tanaka or Hiroshi Aramata.
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FilthyCasual



Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 2190
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:32 am Reply with quote
AksaraKishou wrote:
Also, didn't you read/watch the SCENE where Miyuki specifically states that while he can heal others, he must first experience their pain time dozens of times?

Since when has pain ever incapacitated him or had a meaningful impact besides "he suffers for our sins"? Is there a moment in the 18+ LNs or so where he's too busy screaming in agony or something to accomplish what he needed to?

If not, that caveat is meaningless.
T.Silver wrote:
His magic can only bring back the dead if there is chance of resuscitation. Regrowth only restores the physical spectrum and not the spiritual.

Is this a "it works if they're only mostly dead" thing or a "it works if they've been dead for less than five minutes" thing?
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T.Silver



Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 163
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:41 am Reply with quote
FilthyCasual wrote:
AksaraKishou wrote:
Also, didn't you read/watch the SCENE where Miyuki specifically states that while he can heal others, he must first experience their pain time dozens of times?

Since when has pain ever incapacitated him or had a meaningful impact besides "he suffers for our sins"? Is there a moment in the 18+ LNs or so where he's too busy screaming in agony or something to accomplish what he needed to?

If not, that caveat is meaningless.
T.Silver wrote:
His magic can only bring back the dead if there is chance of resuscitation. Regrowth only restores the physical spectrum and not the spiritual.

Is this a "it works if they're only mostly dead" thing or a "it works if they've been dead for less than five minutes" thing?
The first one is close. Regrowth can restore the physical body, but it can't restore lifeforce. spoiler[There was a situation where he desperately tried to save someone he was close to when he was younger, but her lifeforce was drained due overuse of her magic and thus regrowth wouldn't work and he couldn't save her.]
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AksaraKishou



Joined: 16 May 2015
Posts: 1410
Location: End of the World
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:43 am Reply with quote
I quit... You say i'm begging, i say you're ignorant. End of story.
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Tylec



Joined: 27 Mar 2017
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:02 am Reply with quote
Tatsuya does become more interesting in the light novels where we have access to his stream of consciousness. Not only does he have to navigate the class-based interactions of a Japanese society and school, but he does so with a complete inability to read social/emotional cues. It is neat to see the inner workings behind his "cool, suave" persona and the analysis he puts into every dialogue.

Your mileage may vary whether that's enough to carry you through the books.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8360
Location: IL
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:14 am Reply with quote
jl07045 wrote:
kgw wrote:
Are we talking about the same character who's good at everything, every time, knows it all, characters are measured by their interactions with him, girls or fawn at him or think they are too low for him?

A textbook Mary Sue.

Yes, everybody likes Jesus.

Of course, that's why I still sometimes see Kira Yamato in the NewType male rankings, 15 years after Gundam SEED!
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Tuor_of_Gondolin



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 3524
Location: Bellevue, WA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:19 am Reply with quote
This is an awesome survey about the awesomeness of Mr. Awesome. I just can't get over how awesome it is. I tried to get through the series back when it first came out, but it was just too awesome for me, and I conked out near the end of the magic games competition thingy. A man can only endure so much of Mr. Awesome's awesomeness before being overwhelmed by it. Still, I hope he ends up with the girl of his dreams... that is, his sister. They're perfect for one another.
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 7580
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:17 pm Reply with quote
I became more accepting of his OPness after getting curious about what "BS Magician" meant and inadvertently reading some spoilers (I only have Vol. 1 of the LN). Still, the last episode of the anime went overboard with all his comrades just letting themselves be mown down and re-res'd rather than doing anything soldier-like.
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