Forum - View topicREVIEW: KanColle: Kantai Collection BD+DVD
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
Yttrbio
 Posts: 3652 |
|
|||
|
The argument is that it should offend Japanese sensibilities, because of the nature of Japan's role in the horrors of WWII in Asia. i.e. saying "it would have been good if we won" for a war they should feel ashamed of is what rubs people the wrong way.
|
||||
|
||||
Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
|
|||
|
I'll never understand this. Do you think the United States ever faces that it slaughtered millions of innocent civilians? When was the last time you saw an American depiction of WW2 where the US is fire-bombing Tokyo as hundreds of thousands of civilians are dying as the giant city is leveled to the ground? The United States specifically targeted civilians and not military targets when they bombed Tokyo. Did you even know that? I'd wager not since it pratically never gets brought up compared with the two A-bombs.
|
||||
|
||||
Mad_Scientist
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 3011 |
|
|||
Nice fallacy there. Regarding the firebombing of Tokyo, I think a lot of the discourse regarding US actions in World War II tends to be heavily focused on the atomic bomb droppings. Which I *do* see criticized plenty, including sometimes on this very forum. (Such as a recent Answerman column.) That said, there is a slight difference between discussing war crimes done during a war where you were on the "right" side (as much as any side in a war can ever be right) and imagining an alternate history where a war you (rightfully) lost was one instead, or creating scenarios that are at least heavily based on that idea. EDIT: You edited your post as I was responding.
Yes, I did know this. Thanks partially to Grave of the Fireflies, initially, which led me to do more research on the subject. I've also heard it brought up elsewhere. Don't assume that we only post on ANN, or that we don't have thoughts about things unrelated to anime. END EDIT. Ans so for the record, if there was a game based heavily inspired by Confederate forces, and kind of implied "it would have been good if the confederate forces won", yeah, I'd be criticizing the hell out of it. Or heck, simply any game that glorified the US genocide of Native Americans (which, sadly, would not require any alternate history setting or inspiration). But, this is an anime and manga based forum, so, naturally, we don't exactly have many occasions here to criticize things like that, because they usually just aren't related to any of the topics being discussed. (Though as said, criticism of the US over the atomic bombs did happen recently in an Answerman thread.) That doesn't mean we don't criticize US actions in other places, though. That's why I said that your argument is a fallacy, designed to shut down any discussion. This thread is about KANCOLLE. And we are discussing KANCOLLE. The topic of this thread. And we are allowed to discuss it, and criticize it, without having to turn over our entire Internet history to you just so that you can judge if we also criticize US meda and the US government enough to meet whatever standard you have arbitrarily set for us. Last edited by Mad_Scientist on Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
|
Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16935 |
|
|||
So are you going to actually comment on the show, or are you just going to get on your soap box again? |
||||
|
||||
|
Yttrbio
Posts: 3652 |
|
|||
|
Megiddo, I'm also blown away that you would guess that critics of this show had no idea about firebombing in WWII. Point me to the show that creates an alternate history where the U.S. killed even more civilians, and celebrates it as if it's a good thing, and then we have a parallel situation to discuss. Otherwise, it's not relevant to this discussion.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
|
|||
|
Right, you're allowed to discuss it and be wrong. The USS Iowa, USS Saratoga, HMS Warspite, are all on the same team as Kongou, Akagi, and Yamato. But look at that, they're all cute girls! What a shocker. Turns out cute girls masquerading as warships is more important than war propaganda.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Yttrbio
Posts: 3652 |
|
|||
|
At this point, you're just willfully ignoring what people are talking about. i.e. the anime, and the deliberate inclusion of a "won the war" plot in a show ostensibly about cute girl warships.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
|
|||
First you need to point me to show where Japan creates an alternate timeline and kills even more civillians and celebrates it as a good thing. My point was regarding the atrocities of war committed by Japan being absent from Kancolle just as the atrocities of war committed by the US are absent from American media. |
||||
|
||||
|
Mad_Scientist
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 3011 |
|
|||
I used "game" examples in my post for hypotheticals of things that don't exist, but as has already been addressed in this thread, for the Kancolle ANIME, what this review is based on. So if you're gonna accuse people of being "wrong", how about you actually point out things in the anime? |
||||
|
||||
|
Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
|
|||
|
Do you think that the anime does not reflect the game? What striking difference do you believe sets apart the Kancolle anime from the game? I am referring to the original source material for the Kancolle anime.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Mad_Scientist
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 3011 |
|
|||
The fact that it's the anime, and your entire argument is based on characters that, unless I'm reading Key's post wrong, DO NOT SHOW UP IN IT? He's reviewing the anime, not the game. If you can't address his complaints with stuff from the anime, then your comments are at best an interesting piece of trivia, but not in any way a rebuttal to the review. |
||||
|
||||
Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
|
|||
|
IMO, the use of anthropomorphized girls is just a way to sugarcoat the unpleasantness of wishing that the IJN had won out over the Allied Fleet. The whole "defeat fate" (or something along those lines) thing is about the wish to revise the past to where Japan had won instead of lost. That's why the fleet has the *exact* same specs as the Japanese fleet had.
I would have a modicum more respect for this show if they weren't so intent on dancing around the issue (probably to avoid foreign (mainly American) blowback). Obviously, there are going to be people that refuse to acknowledge this sort of thing, and that's certainly their privilege. But IMO, what this show (and game) is about is pretty obvious -- and, yes, "cute" girls are part of it, but they're not the reason for why it was made the way it was. This is probably all I'm going to say about this topic. I don't want to soapbox it and I think I've said what I wanted to say about it. I'll respond to others if necessary, but that's it. |
||||
|
||||
|
Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
|
|||
|
Fair enough. If the statement made is only concerning the anime then I will concede that point. The Kancolle franchise as whole though, to which the anime forms part of, now boasts allied and axis ships combined. Hence any sort of propaganda claims for the franchise as a whole now hold zero weight. As there would be zero reason for there to be USS ships which sunk IJN ships to be under the admiral's command against the abyssal fleet if it were for propaganda purposes.
So until 18 months or so ago the argument had weight. After the introduction of the Iowa though, any propaganda notion for the franchise as a whole is sunk  Unless of you you can come up with a reason for US Navy and Royal Navy ships to be included in the fight against the abyssal fleet that still maintain some level of propaganda, to which I am all ears.
Also if you're looking for Civil War alternate universe stuff that really mucks stuff about then check out Southern Victory. It features, amongst other things, The Northern States joining the Central Powers and the Southern States joining the Entente and Germany nukes pretty much all of Europe. Interesting stuff. |
||||
|
||||
|
Lord Oink
Posts: 876 |
|
|||
Those are an odd combination given most Native Americans sided with the South during the Civil War. The Confederacy was the most sympathetic and beneficitial to their plights and interests, not unlike the French-Indian war. Anyway, the notion of one side 'rightfully' lost a war is a pretty sketchy in general. Wars were never and will never be black and white Disneyfied battles of 'Good VS Evil' like media loves to portray. Considering we were the winners though, a cartoon about 'What If' hardly seems dangerous, let alone a new concept |
||||
|
||||
|
Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18187 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
|||
For the content after the point where US and British ships start getting added in? Yes, I'll agree with you on that, because at that point the creators were clearly expanding it beyond the original design. Doesn't change the impression given about the content before that, though. Oh, and for the record, I've always been quite well aware of the damage/death toll from the firebombing of Tokyo and other cities. It's just not relevant to the content here, which glosses over almost all of the nastiness of the war. |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group