Forum - View topic

REVIEW: KanColle: Kantai Collection BD+DVD

But know what? Here's the thing that you can never beat - it's not the WW2 in the anime even with that allusions, and never was.

First fact: Even with WW2 themes, the world where shipgirls lives is not the same as was in the times of it, but it's close to current era - it mentioned in voice lines of some of them (like Yuubari and late-night anime - which of course wasn't even existed in the times of WW2), and even in CG (I-168 weird smartphone).

Second fact: Like in the anime, all of shipgirls know their past to the times they're sunk. And with this we get to the same concept - shipgirls live in the world where all of WW2 Pacific battles already happened, and all of it happened according to history! Because if it comes another way, it creates a paradox - you can't know about the events which isn't happened before, right?

Third fact: It will be about Abyssal Fleet, the enemies. Yes, initially it was depicted as some kind of counterpart to the Allied Fleet (except there never was the mention, of course) with naming of guns and aircraft - but here it should be noted that the creators of the game didn't initially planned to support it for too long, waiting for shut down somewhere in half of the year. After the extreme popularity of KanColle things changed - and also that changes the way that the conflict between the players and enemies depicted. But when it was happened? No, it wasn't after the anime, when the game introduced first Allied shipgirls - it was before it even aired, in Fall of 2014, when they introduced the first Abyssal counterpart of the shipgirl, based on the only IJN casualty of the same battle. Yes, that's right - the Abyssal Fleet isn't the Allied Fleet even in concept from this long time.

Sorry, no. Even if it's not exactly replacing the events of WW2, it's still heavily patterned on WW2 events up to the Battle of Midway. This point is simply not disputable, especially when exact historical quotes are being reused.

but for the real truth you should check again not the final battle, but the episode 11 (yes, right before it) scene, when Akagi remember her past as the ship (and afraid of the fate coincidence, even with the exclusion of some shipgirls from the other fleet), when she's (as a ship) scuttled by destroyer torpedoes (you can even see the one who scuttled her by the real historic facts, Maikaze). What does it means? That's right - if it's basically our world, the real Battle of Midway already happened, and Akagi remember how it was been!

None of the other girls demonstrate any sign of that. If you have proof to the contrary in the anime series then point to specific scenes with specific time codes.

You are splitting hairs. It doesn't matter if it is a recreation of the original battle of Midway or a fake version set in an alternate world or future. Anyone who is sufficiently familiar with the real history of WWII in the Pacific is likely to have an emotional reaction to the scene. If it doesn't bother you that is fine but you need to accept that it bothers others..

And you deliberately miss this part to confirm your opinion.

Right - the anime MI operation isn't the real Battle of Midway - it is the repeat of that!

But repeat vs. replacement actually doesn't make a single bit of difference in the cautions and criticisms being levied, either.

The moment they decided to use Midway, they raised the "what if" flag and that is enough to make some in this country uncomfortable. You may be perfectly capable of drawing a clear line between what they did and the "real" war. That is fine. You do need to realize that it is not that clear for others.

Although it's true that the Japanese are not fully aware that they were allied with the Nazi bad guys. Although the US was allied with Stalin (the US playing essentially the role of Stalin's logistical support in WW2 more than anything else), who was about as bad as the Nazis, and Americans are not very aware of that either. WW2 was essentially a victory for Stalin more than anybody else who got to occupy/transform into communist dictatorships dozens of countries after (including dictatorships like Mao's China, Pol Pot's Cambodia and North Korea). Overall, communist dictatorships established by Lenin and Stalin killed 150 million people, several times more than the Nazis, 20 times more civilians than Imperial Japan killed. So its not quite clear who holds the moral high ground: given that partly thanks to US help that allowed Stalin to impose communist dictatorships on over a billion people: with Axis victory these communist dictatorships wouldn't have existed.

Ehm... Seriously? All of criticism that you and others said before was about the final episode was the reenactment of the "what if" for Battle of Midway! But then you're all got the undeniable proof that the final battle wasn't the replacement, but the different battle with different forces (not the repeat), so it can be done with different outcome - you say that it doesn't matter and it doesn't make a single bit of difference? C'mon, that's just the сomplete ignoring of reality in an attempt to protect your false facts.

The thing is - they're used not only the Battle of Midway as reference, just for you know (because you said that you didn't watched the anime series), they're also referenced the Battle of Wake Island (episode 3) and the Battle of Coral Sea (episode 7) before it - heck, that was even said in the review. And no one, as I see in the replies - no one is offended with that!

And I say again - you should never try to mix the real history and fiction, which does not show a truth, and doesn't even think about it. If with the same activity people paid attention and criticized the real revisionism propaganda posing as truth, that pouring every day on the screens - it would be much better for the current generation, than to look for traces of it in fantasy fiction... like for this guy.

And of course, he doesn't know about USA and the future Allies support of Nazi Germany before WWII happened.

And to make sure we're perfectly clear, ABSOLUTELY NO ONE is in the slightest arguing that the ultimate outcome isn't very different after the point I mentioned above. Because that's when the changes made behind the scenes start taking effect.

Right, because they played those battles pretty nearly straight as they happened in history. Neither was a case of a pivotal defeat being reimagined as a great victory, so why would there be any hubbub about them?

So in other words, you're claiming that this isn't worth being bothered about because there are bigger fish to fray? Too bad; this review and thread is for talking about this anime specifically, not the other problems in the world. There are plenty of other places to discuss that which are not here.

What? In what way does the Young Plan constitute support for Nazi Germany? The Nazis weren't even in power at that point. I'm not at all clear who you're referring to about the Munich Agreement, but that didn't constitute "support of Nazi Germany" either - that was simple appeasement.

You're really stretching to make points at this point, and in me you're dealing with someone who essentially majored in History, so good luck getting away with that here.

you should never try to mix the real history and fiction

And all of the final episode battle not affect the real Battle of Midway - because the real is already done in the past according to the anime series. And this is undeniable truth.

No. I'm claiming for stop trying to give out the fictional battle, which is not even trying to be something other than a fiction (and even not the same), as an attempt to propaganda revise of the real battle for Midway. If you are seriously trying to give KanСolle for a documentary - it's not work.

The one who raised the Germany economic, give the technological and warfare boost to the future Third Reich, and raised the NSDAP influence, was the same one who fought against them later as Allies, and Dawes Plan (and later Young Plan) was the part of all of it. Of course, it also doesn't change the facts that USA corporations give more than billion dollars of investments in German industry in 1933, when the Third Reich is already being. I advise you to read on this subject the one book - "Trading with the enemy" by Charles Higham. It can bring you to something really interesting.

Which is basically what we have been trying to tell you. I don't care how they disguise it, they could call it the thirteenth version, if they call it the Battle of Midway

and have Japanese named ships win it

However you need to accept that what they did bothers others and that their concerns are valid.