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mangamuscle
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2658
Location: Mexico
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 Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:03 pm
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| hinugundam wrote: | | I am not arguing that Centaurs Life can cause that reaction, merely responding to your statement that nothing on a 2d screen, including live action, could elicit an uncanny valley response. |
Leopards kill baby lions (and viceversa) routinely. The uncanny valley reaction acts two-fold. It prevents young-lings to feel at home in what might appear to be their fellow species and it signals adults to not feed the young of species that compete with them. But as people grow older (as in, no longer young nor in procreation age) it is no longer so important to recognize the little details that separate our species with others that might look like us. So I have no doubt that those that confuse a 2D image (which lacks depth, so it is as real as a photograph) to the degree of having a uncanny valley reaction are no longer in their prime and I would call them "false positives" just the same as people with myopia can sometimes (under some lighting conditions) confuse a statue far away with a real person.
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 3728
Location: SoCal
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Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:47 pm
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| mangamuscle wrote: |
| hinugundam wrote: | | I am not arguing that Centaurs Life can cause that reaction, merely responding to your statement that nothing on a 2d screen, including live action, could elicit an uncanny valley response. |
Leopards kill baby lions (and viceversa) routinely. The uncanny valley reaction acts two-fold. It prevents young-lings to feel at home in what might appear to be their fellow species and it signals adults to not feed the young of species that compete with them. |
Male adult lions and leopards kill babies of their own species, sometimes (though not often) their own children, to diminish competition. It has absolutely nothing to do with the uncanny valley.
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mangamuscle
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2658
Location: Mexico
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Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:07 pm
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| JacobC wrote: | | Male adult lions and leopards kill babies of their own species, sometimes (though not often) their own children, to diminish competition. It has absolutely nothing to do with the uncanny valley. |
That is something else, when a male lion defeats the former harem leader, females of the species will not copulate with him if they are raising youngsters so male lions then will kill (someone else) kids to force the female to copulate. Yeah, it is brutal, I was astonished when I heard it for the first time.
So, to end this without a bitter taste in the mouth, here is a link that shows how unheard of is for a lion not to kill a baby leopard:
https://phys.org/news/2017-07-rare-sight-lioness-nurses-leopard.html
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Chrono1000
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Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:11 pm
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| mangamuscle wrote: | | So I have no doubt that those that confuse a 2D image (which lacks depth, so it is as real as a photograph) to the degree of having a uncanny valley reaction are no longer in their prime and I would call them "false positives" just the same as people with myopia can sometimes (under some lighting conditions) confuse a statue far away with a real person. |
The uncanny valley response can have different causes such as still images or by the robotic movement of human looking animation/robots.In one study when they did brain scans of people while testing the uncanny valley response to robot movement the scans indicated that it was a perceptual mismatch between the human form and expected bodily movements. I think for something like a centaur, or other monster type humans with 4 or more legs, that could be a factor. Also in a different study researchers observed the uncanny valley response in monkeys when they were shown CGI monkey faces using still images.
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meiam
Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 3442
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:17 pm
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An interesting detail from this week episode (which may or may not be intentional) is the younger sister being an hybrid of angel kin and cat people (she has cat hear unlike her sister). It's seems like the class president and the triplet aren't actually full sister (possibly the class president mother is an angel folk and her biological father isn't her current one).
The interesting aspect of hybrid is that it means cohabitation is either something new or at least couple of different species is new, otherwise everyone would be an hybrid, there wouldn't be a lot of pure people.
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zrnzle500
Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3767
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:14 pm
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| meiam wrote: | | An interesting detail from this week episode (which may or may not be intentional) is the younger sister being an hybrid of angel kin and cat people (she has cat hear unlike her sister). It's seems like the class president and the triplet aren't actually full sister (possibly the class president mother is an angel folk and her biological father isn't her current one).
The interesting aspect of hybrid is that it means cohabitation is either something new or at least couple of different species is new, otherwise everyone would be an hybrid, there wouldn't be a lot of pure people. |
It's definitely interesting to see hybrids. It doesn't necessarily mean interspecies marriage is new. Depends on how the traits are passed down. I'm not an expert in genetics but with stuff like blood type, you could have kids that have A type, B type and AB type from parents with A and B type blood, just like the class rep's parents had an angel, triplet cats and one that showed both cat and angel traits from a cat and angel parent.
Let me just say, that is the most adorable combination. Kitten angel.
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Yttrbio
Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 3652
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:26 pm
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For me, the show is all about the humor of placing our reality's rules and this world's setting together. The casual propoganda of fairy tales and transformation sequences could easily be seen as humor rather than a message. I don't have a great deal of faith in Japan's ability to tell stories about the horrors of communist totalitarianism or the failures of racial integration, so treating it as humor is probably best for my blood pressure.
Other neat details are the modified glasses needed for the beast-eared folks, or the fact that grabbing a partner's horn for a kiss may be necessary to avoid putting an eye out.
I wonder whether the hybrid issue is being presented by the poor health of Sue. Maybe they aren't common because it's not biologically sustainable (which might be another comment about how saying the right words can't overcome actual difference).
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mangamuscle
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2658
Location: Mexico
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:06 pm
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Somebody actualize my information in case it is outdated, but AFAIK kissing in the mouth in public in japan is a big no no for hetereo (and probably more so for gay) couples. It is my understanding that kissing in the mouth amounts to them to foreplay and hey, go to a love hotel or somewhere outside the public eye (like a badly lit park at night) for that. Even kissing a female friend in the cheek is quite unheard (unless you are an adorable baby). But hey, who are we to criticize, no doubt the bonobo's think humans as a whole are bunch of sexually repressed beings.
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encrypted12345
Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 718
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:43 pm
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| meiam wrote: | | An interesting detail from this week episode (which may or may not be intentional) is the younger sister being an hybrid of angel kin and cat people (she has cat hear unlike her sister). It's seems like the class president and the triplet aren't actually full sister (possibly the class president mother is an angel folk and her biological father isn't her current one).
The interesting aspect of hybrid is that it means cohabitation is either something new or at least couple of different species is new, otherwise everyone would be an hybrid, there wouldn't be a lot of pure people. |
I don't remember exactly, but I do remember the manga mentioning that whether or not hybrids are possible or healthy depends on the species involved. I have a feeling some of them are outright unable to reproduce like some real life hybrids, though again, that probably depends on a variety of factors.
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DuskyPredator
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15462
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:23 pm
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My impression was that Manami is a step sister to the triplets, and that her mother is likely passed away. I think there was a family picture or at least an image that looked like them recently yet we could not see a mother, she and her sisters seem to not bring her except when she mentions a supposed strong moment where her grandfather on his deathbed mistakes her for her. This included when she says that she needs to get home to make dinner for her sisters and father.
Also, I was thinking that perhaps by the look of the dark hair, that the aunt character may be her father sister, making her girl indeed her cousin.
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Chrono1000
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:47 pm
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I laughed at the part where Hime was reading her cousin the story about a hero who returned home, wrote a constitution, and lived a long democratic lifestyle with the "former princess". The conversation about kissing, the lesbian couple, and the PTA comment was a bit of politics (since the Japanese PTA did use to lodge complaints about that issue in the past). The last half had a good amount of commentary about family vs work and a magical girl parody about democracy in which part of her transformation catchphrase is "Grant the greatest happiness to the greatest number of people". I am somewhat sad that Magical Girl Pretty Horn isn't a real show since a magical girl show about competing democratic theories would be hilarious.
| Gabriella Ekens wrote: | | This world's Sailor Moon equivalent recites government propaganda during her transformation sequence? Okay. |
I think she was paraphrasing Jeremy Bentham.
| Gabriella Ekens wrote: | | Manami's parents seem to be hard up for money, indicating that people can still suffer from poverty in this society. This places an undue burden on Manami that the other students can't understand. She doesn't have time to indulge social opportunities like most of her peers, so she's ended up somewhat alienated as a result. |
It does look like Manami comes from a poor family and that the show is commenting on how none of the other students in the student council really understand that. I think there is also some commentary in which the author suggests that family is more important than work which is a rare message for anime. The traditional message would be given by Manami calling home to tell her sisters that she will be late, her sisters being disappointed about it, and than her sisters taking pride in her hard work for the student council. That the author had Manami put her family first is a bold statement.
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zrnzle500
Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3767
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:09 pm
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| Chrono1000 wrote: | | It does look like Manami comes from a poor family and that the show is commenting on how none of the other students in the student council really understand that. I think there is also some commentary in which the author suggests that family is more important than work which is a rare message for anime. The traditional message would be given by Manami calling home to tell her sisters that she will be late, her sisters being disappointed about it, and than her sisters taking pride in her hard work for the student council. That the author had Manami put her family first is a bold statement. |
I don't think that is a rare message in anime, just one that is displayed in the negative rather than positive. There are plenty of anime where at least a part of the character's problem(s) or angst is due to absentee parent(s), but that is showing the negative effects of prioritizing work over family rather than showing the positives of family over work or explicitly endorsing that, like Centaur does. Though even that isn't unprecedented, as in fellow monster girl show Dragon Maid has Kobayashi adjust her work schedule to be able to take off for adopted daughter Kanna's school's athletic festival
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mangamuscle
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2658
Location: Mexico
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:15 pm
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| Chrono1000 wrote: | | I am somewhat sad that Magical Girl Pretty Horn isn't a real show since a magical girl show about competing democratic theories would be hilarious. |
.. and the final boss would be populist totalitarian regimes, that would break records as the anime that has been banned in the shortest amount of time in china.
My take about Magical Girl Pretty Horn is that it is a commentary in how all the media we produce (even in non-totalitarian countries) always extol the values of our society. So you will be hard pressed to find an anime that talks positively about individualism or a hollywood flick that dares to talk about the good intentions behind communism, but we have plenty of animes where team work is exalted just like pretty horn blows her horn with her favorite flavor of democracy.
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vonPeterhof
Joined: 10 Nov 2014
Posts: 729
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:54 am
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| mangamuscle wrote: | | Somebody actualize my information in case it is outdated, but AFAIK kissing in the mouth in public in japan is a big no no for hetereo (and probably more so for gay) couples. |
Yeah, my interpretation was that this was what Mitama was objecting to (in addition to annoyance over Akechi undermining her quasi-maternal authority over her little sisters) rather than the girls finding out about the existence of lesbians. She didn't seem opposed to Akechi and Inukai's relationship previously - her annoyance in this and earlier episodes has been directed at Akechi's behaviour rather than her sexuality, so I suspect that the remark about girls not kissing girls when they grow up was just unintentionally poor phrasing (albeit likely stemming from subconscious heteronormative assumptions).
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Ragdollomega
Joined: 24 Feb 2017
Posts: 72
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:26 pm
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| vonPeterhof wrote: |
| mangamuscle wrote: | | Somebody actualize my information in case it is outdated, but AFAIK kissing in the mouth in public in japan is a big no no for hetereo (and probably more so for gay) couples. |
Yeah, my interpretation was that this was what Mitama was objecting to (in addition to annoyance over Akechi undermining her quasi-maternal authority over her little sisters) rather than the girls finding out about the existence of lesbians. She didn't seem opposed to Akechi and Inukai's relationship previously - her annoyance in this and earlier episodes has been directed at Akechi's behaviour rather than her sexuality, so I suspect that the remark about girls not kissing girls when they grow up was just unintentionally poor phrasing (albeit likely stemming from subconscious heteronormative assumptions). |
My take was that phrasing was used since all involved in this scene were girls, though your alternative could also be true.
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