Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Classroom of the Elite
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Blackiris_
 Posts: 535 |
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I personally found the reveal equally predictable and disappointing. This isn't a problem only found in anime, but I am really not a fan of this kind of storytelling where the presentation is mostly there for the shock effect. (There are cases where it works for me, but Classroom of the Elite is the kind of anime where those kinds of relelations only make me sigh.) And it's even worse when it turns out that the cliffhanger isn't all that dramatic in the next episode(s). Like a clickbait headline that leads to an article without all the juicy stuff promised. I can already see almighty MC-kun becoming her "savior" in some way or other.
As for the SNAFU comparisons: Yes, I can definitely see the similarities. I really liked the first season when it aired, but I had already grown tired of Hachimans cynical comments by the time the second season aired. Not sure if it's because the presentation was better in the first season or because my taste had changed in the meantime. At least I had the feeling that the second season was somewhat more pretentious and overly "cool" in that regard. But the main character in Classroom seems to me like just another modern self-insert / power fantasy / escapism main character who looks like a normal, unpopular guy (self-insert), but turns out to be a quick-witted, all-knowning, (almost) almighty guy (power fantasy) who gets all the girls and is also the only important male protagonist (escapism). I cannot really see these kinds of characters (as well as the girls) as relatable, natural human beings. Their position in the cogwheel (i.e. what the story tries to achieve on an emotional level) is just so obvious that I cannot ignore the calculated mechanics behind this, and it leaves a really bad aftertaste in my mouth. I really like the feeling getting emotionally invested in a story, but I have a very strong distaste for stories and storytelling devices that feel constructed and unnatural. Classroom of the Elite feels, so far, very constructed to me. The characters just don't feel very "human" which applies to both their interactions and their roles in the story. |
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Edjwald
 Posts: 1098 |
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So instead of utilizing the setting in an interesting manner as a social experiment, the show will probably focus on shallow entertainment value (fanservice, cute girls, cheap plot twists, one-dimensional jerks as "antagonists", more revelations of characters' tragic / shocking backgrounds, glorification of the main character, "battle" between the classes).
Well, I don't think it's a case of "instead" so much as in addition to. Not too long ago, I watched a show called Oreshura with a female acquaintance. It's a harem show, but I thought it was pretty funny. The conceit of the show is that all of the characters are emotionally dishonest, and the fun, for me anyway, is watching the lies they tell build and extend the way lies do, except to ridiculous extremes. The woman I was watching the show with liked it too, but she was a bit offended every time the lead female (not an admirable character) was shown in profile or in a frame that emphasized her short skirt. And I realized that I'd more or less stopped noticing that stuff after being exposed to so many more gratuitous and extreme anime shows. And while I certainly don't blame any female who doesn't want to watch a show where a male becomes the center of attention for a bunch of females - I'm probably not going to watch Brothers Conflict, which is about a woman surrounded by 13 cute stepbrothers - I have enjoyed a lot of them, like Konosuba for example. I've only been watching Japanese anime for about three years now - stumbled on it by accident, then got addicted when I watched a show called Darker Than Black. Than I tried a show called Irregular at Magic High School and was shocked into "What the @#$!" territory by the eroticization of incestuous attraction . And as I continued to watch Anime, the even more troubling (at least personally) lolli-con trend started to crop up in some shows. And some of this stuff I can excuse as cultural difference, and some of it crosses a personal line. But if I assumed that every Japanese anime that had any fan service automatically precluded intelligence, originality, or worth in general, I'd have missed a lot of shows that I've enjoyed. I wouldn't have been able to watch Interviews with Monster Girls not too long ago, for example. I'd have tossed out "Ballroom" this season as soon as it had the main character walk in on Shizuku while she was dressing. My First Girlfriend is a Gal...oh, wait, never mind. And maybe the quoter above isn't being dismissive but just has different standards. Obviously things like what is egregious and what isn't, what is clever and isn't, are matters of personal taste and choice. My point is that I both like the show and fully agree that there's some fan service in it that I don't intend to defend. I don't, for example, agree with the reviewer who said that Kushida's boobage was mostly being emphasized as a comment on her character's self presentation. There's an abundance of revealing profile shots of attractive females, not to mention the homeroom teacher just, y'know, hanging out every episode. I'm sure I've become jaded. Just the fact the females weren't groping each other and commenting on their boob size in the swimming pool scene raises it a tier above a lot of anime in the fan service category. But I don't think the plot twists are cheap. Yes, I think we can expect the good characters in class D to be two faced because they're in class D, and the "losers" will probably have unexpected depths because they made it into this prestigious high school in the first place, but beyond that I don't think I can predict all the plot twists of the next four episodes. Generalities, sure (yes, Sudo will probably be cleared - gasp!), but I don't know what the witness's mask reference that ended episode 4 is all about. Even if there are general clues I haven't thought through yet - the shutterbug thing, the possible otaku tendencies - it's not immediately obvious to me. I don't think the jerks are going to be one dimensional either. I'm not at all clear on whether the teacher is an ally or an antagonist or neutral. I'll be very surprised if the golden boy narcissist doesn't have more going on than meets the eye. Horakita's summation of what Sudo-kan lacks indicates that his personal growth is going to become a plot point. Even Horakita's brother, who was detestable and will probably remain so, made some insightful comments about the line between independence and isolation. I haven't learned enough about any of the character's tragic backgrounds to speculate about that yet. And yes, Kiyotaka, the student everyone dismisses as average, has emerged as a hidden, capable player and will probably continue to do so. But he's already made several miscalculations and demonstrated internal struggle. Things don't seem to be proceeding to some grand design he laid out from the beginning, etc. If he's being glorified, it's not to the extremes of shows like Knights and Magic (which I still like BTW) or the aforementioned Irregular at Magic High School, or that new show about a guy with a smartphone. Kiyotaka obviously has some personal hang-ups that's he's going to have to face and deal with. Well, that was a lot more longwinded than I intended just as a way of saying I like the show myself. First time post and all. Cheers. |
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TasteyCookie
 Posts: 421 |
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Ouch that's quite the harsh review for episode 4 as well. Which is odd since I thought episode 4 was fantastic, and looks like other's enjoyed it a lot too.
The character interactions are pretty compelling, and the dynamics are definitely my favorite part of the show. I think the mistake is in thinking the show was meant to only offer social commentary instead of what it really is, which is a show about the different ways people act in life to get ahead. The social commentary still exists, but it's a byproduct of exploring just what it means to be "successful" in a measured environment. |
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Edjwald
Posts: 1098 |
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The reviewer is very articulate, passionate, and obviously thinks about a lot of things, but I can't say I'm in sync with him on this particular anime at all. Here's some specific areas where we're going to have to agree to disagree: "On top of that, the fact that this conflict was introduced out of the blue means it all felt very arbitrary. We've seen these guys mess with Sudo before, but the sum of their conflict has always been 'randome thugs pick on Sudo for no reason.'" When the guy who's given every indication of being a sociopath says that he's going to enjoy making Sudo his plaything, after not one but two encounters, I consider that legitimate foreshadowing. "And forcing the rest of Class D to rummage around for evidence did little to elevate this problem over just being conflict for conflict's sake." From the start, Sudo has been one of the levers forcing Horakita to re-evaluate her "abandon the scum to their fate" philosophy. There are scenes to this effect in episode 2, episode 3, and episode 4. Doesn't seem random or contrived to me. Seems like the groundwork's been laid pretty methodically. "This episode also frustrated me with its awkward treatment of Kushida. The third episode also frustrated me with it's awkward treatment of Kushida. The third episode ended on the big reveal that Kushida was actually hiding her real, much darker personality." I was waiting for signs of mental instability from her myself. I encourage anyone to watch episode 1 and 2 again and look at signs that Kushida's need for friendship is pathological. Also look for signs that Horakita is a shrewd observer for all her flaws and occasional forays into paranoia. In fact, I've thought Kushida showed signs of being Kathy Bates from Misery since episode 2, when it became obvious the end of episode 1 wasn't a fluke and that things not being what they seem on the surface is one of the shows main themes/tropes/patterns. On a similar note, I'm expecting the earnest but ineffectual good guy who wants to be the classroom leader to have hidden flaws and motivations too. I'm just going to say right now, if that does happen, it won't be contrived, illogical, or out of the blue. "what I'm not fine with is split personality" Guess I'd better burn that copy of Fight Club <g>. "Where the actions of bubblegum Kushida imply that she doesn't actually possess any of the social awareness and cynicism she demonstrated last week." I'm not sure cynicism is how I'd describe kicking the hell out of a safety gate while screaming that she wanted Horakita to die, then threatening to implicate the protagonist with a false rape accusation. That isn't just cynical, it's totally %#$!ed up, not only because of the implications for him, but because of every woman who's been legitimately raped and faced skepticism. It's horrific. I suppose you could argue that the author is taking that lightly, but I don't know. I think both sides of what she's revealed are extreme, which is one of the arguments for some kind of bi-polar disorder. The horribly messed up monster is the dark reflection of the too good to be true saint. Episode 3 ended with the narrator wondering, not how Kuchida had been pretending all along, but wondering which side was real. Even the possibility that the bubblegum side is real opens the possibility for a pathology, instability, or outright multiple personality rather than a strategy. "Which made it impossible to emotionally invest in any of her choices this week." That's certainly okay with me. Everybody has their own druthers. But I will sat that the tension for me comes from wondering/dreading what Kushida's going to do next and why she's doing what she's doing, not from rooting for or against her. Also by the way, I fully expect that when things come to a head between Kushida and Horakita, that's going to inform the confict that forces the protagonist to make some of the choices he's been avoiding. I don't know the specifics, obviously, but that seems to be what's being set up. I really do think the author lays groundwork rather than lurches from plot device to plot device. "Horakita's a trope. Ayanokoji is a secretly perfect everyman." I think the two leads are foil characters. They're both loners, both bright, both sharp observers with odd blind spots. She's invested in appearing perfect but has deep running insecurities. He's invested in appearing average but is a lot more secure than he seems. Her issue is that she rejects others because she expects to be rejected. His issue seems to be that he genuinely wants to be a part of a larger group, but he doesn't know how to do it without warping himself because he sees the society she wants to excel in as inherently unfair and flawed. She's always pushing herself. He's always holding himself back. That doesn't make him perfect. It means he's limiting himself, and if he doesn't come to grips with that it's going to stop being a strategy and become a form of cowardice. So far the only thing that seems to jar Ayanokoji out of his apathy is reacting to what he's against. He doesn't know what he's for yet. I don't think the parallel is an accident either. I think Horakita has more weight than she's being given credit for in some cases, and I think Ayanoki has more growth to do than people realize. I could be wrong, but I think the author's intent is for the two of them to balance each other out and learn from each other as they're forced to work together by their own weaknesses, murky ethics, and reluctant attraction/respect for each other. "...or one note role-fillers." Again, I don't agree, at least not yet. The homeroom teacher, Ichinose, and Horakita's brother don't seem to be one note to me. The only character who appears on the credit screens (one of the more concrete arbiters as to whether they're supposed to be considered significant or not) that I've seen enough of to think he might be one note is the main villain from class C. So far he just seems like pure Grade A entitled sociopath. But you know, sociopath's exist, and a lot of them rise to positions of social influence. Sorry if I'm being long winded or straying into being disrespectful. If it's not obvious, I like the show a lot so far, so I'm probably feeling a little over-protective. |
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TasteyCookie
Posts: 421 |
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^ I think you definitely nailed it on the head on the characters. Definitely agree. It's a show I'm eager to go rewatch to see the interactions from a different light, once we know fully about the characters personalities. I think there's a lot more to them than meets the eye.
Besides the evil Basketball kid from Class C. I don't think there's much to him. And the show could prove me wrong and end up being a lot more simple than we're giving it credit for. But the writing and character dialogue leaves me hopeful. Besides, the show needs to prove Nick wrong! He's right too often 
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teferi
 Posts: 400 |
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Man, this show is always trying so hard to be edgy but those Perrier towers in episode four were on different level.
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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It is clear to me that by episode 4 Nick hates this show with passion. That is the only explanation of a review that attempts to portray the show in such a bad light. But it is kind of normal when you are portrayed as the bad guy. Unlike Assassination Classroom or GTO where the teachers are (mostly) the heroes of the story, here they are (undoubtedly) the pawns of a highly corrupt system. We thought when we saw the security cameras that this educational system was about making squeaky clean upright citizens, but no, they are there to train the students to do good deeds in front of them and do their misdeeds where no one is watching/recording. This school is about training the elites who go by Nyaruko's motto. My guess is that Class C is doing this to Sudo to become class B without directly attacking the actual class B since class D is the obvious punching bag that supposedly does not fight back. That is why C & D points are "paused" until the event is solved.
Don't forget that it is illegal in japan to show in television a minor ingesting alcohol and that by definition you are a minor until you are age 20. I have not be surprised if in the LN those bottles were alcoholic (just like in the Haruhi Suzumiya island incident). |
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Gina Szanboti
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Edjwald, that was a very thoughtful analysis of the series so far, in more depth than the reviews have offered. Having already noted my suspicions about Kushida back on the first page, I wasn't the least bit surprised by the reveal of her other face, though I'm not sure I can give Ayanokoji quite as much credit as you do, depth-wise. Right now, I'm having a hard time getting past the feeling he was air-lifted in from Sagrada Reset to balance out Kushida's genkiness. Hopefully the bunker he's dug in at the dead-average of all things will be bombed soon and he'll have to display an actual emotion, or at least raise his voice.
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teferi
Posts: 400 |
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I don't think that really makes a difference as far as how ridiculous the scene in the anime was. They even went as far as copying the design on Perrier bottles. The whole scene would've been more in line with the scene they were trying to portray with all the drinks removed. |
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Edjwald
Posts: 1098 |
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...Having already noted my suspicions about Kushida back on the first page, I wasn't the least bit surprised by the reveal of her other face
Yeah, I saw that 
"... though I'm not sure I can give Ayanokoji quite as much credit as you do, depth-wise." That's the flip side of the argument that he's some kind of superman. Right now I'm trusting his inner thoughts are really his inner thoughts, so I believe that he tried to give a good first impression when he introduced himself to his class and failed miserably. I believe he'd never had a girl's phone number before Horakita gave him hers, and the circumstances kind of bummed him out. Kushida blindsided him (I don't think she would have surprised Horakita at all). Etc. And yet, he's clearly smart and capable. So it's hard to tell when his being emotionally shut down is a ruse and when it's a strategy. So far, the only clue I've seen as to why he wants more but handicaps himself is this thing he keeps coming back to about society being unequal and a rigged game. I don't know if it's depth, but those are the clues: (1) he seems to be struggling with society being unequal (2) he's trying to keep himself totally average. It would make sense if something bad happened to somebody he cared about because they felt inferior - maybe he made them feel inferior and feels guilty? - but I dunno. Like Tastey said, that might be overthinking and giving too much credit. |
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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If the Perrier bottles were removed from the scene, then anyone that saw it would think "they are drinking alcohol" since there is no reason to think those cups are filled with anything else. But hey, if you want to attack the victim of censorship to get your dose of schadenfreude, knock yourself out; but this censorship is no different from american cartoons very rarely having bullets (even regular guns emit "laser beams"). |
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Edjwald
Posts: 1098 |
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[quote="Edjwald"]...Having already noted my suspicions about Kushida back on the first page, I wasn't the least bit surprised by the reveal of her other face
Yeah, I saw that
"... though I'm not sure I can give Ayanokoji quite as much credit as you do, depth-wise." That's the flip side of the argument that he's some kind of superman. Right now I'm trusting his inner thoughts are really his inner thoughts, so I believe that he tried to give a good first impression when he introduced himself to his class and failed miserably. I believe he'd never had a girl's phone number before Horakita gave him hers, and the circumstances kind of bummed him out. Kushida blindsided him (I don't think she would have surprised Horakita at all). Etc. And yet, he's clearly smart and capable. So it's hard to tell when his being emotionally shut down is real or a ruse. So far, the only clue I've seen as to why he wants more but handicaps himself is this thing he keeps coming back to about society being unequal and a rigged game. I don't know if it's depth, but those are the clues: (1) he seems to be struggling with society being unequal (2) he's trying to keep himself totally average. It would make sense if something bad happened to somebody he cared about because they felt inferior - maybe he made them feel inferior and feels guilty? - but I dunno. Like Tastey said, that might be overthinking and giving too much credit. |
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chaccide
Posts: 295 |
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I like this show but I'm with Nick on this episode. It was boring and repetitious, not building on previous episodes the way I'd like it to especially as far as Kushida's character goes. And the over-the-top Perrier- drinking villains were absolutely ridiculous. I know the show is good and gets better but this episode is not a testament to that.
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Number 6
Posts: 46 |
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I understand what Nick said about seeing more from Kushida or some internal conflict but I believe that we can rule out the split personality possibility. I bet she's been doing this for so long that she has a high level of control over her own self. It also helps that she's cute and attractive which allows people to trust her message of friendship for all. As such, after the outburst, she acted like her "normal self" again like nothing happened, attracting no suspicion. The possibility for development will rise if Horikita continues the trend of opposing her mask of friendship or if the MC takes action and makes her reveal her real self.
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Edjwald
Posts: 1098 |
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I think there's unquestionably a Dr. Jekyll and Ms. Hyde thing going on, but I agree that it's highly, highly, highly unlikely she's actually a multiple personality. The thing I'm trying to figure out is this: When Kushida is being all nice and smiley, is there a part of her that's hating it and hating the people around her and going - with an inner voice - "THAT'S RIGHT, EAT UP IT YOU DISGUSTING FOOL! DIE! DIE! DIE!" (Pardon if you're one of those folks who think caps in any context are rude). Or is she totes sociopathic, and there's a part of her gloating over fooling people and calculatedly looking for the next button to push towards some goal other than just having friends? Or is she getting some fulfillment when she "tricks" people because she desperately needs them to like her to fill some void? Does it make her feel good about herself? The flip side being that Horakita enrages her because Kushida hates the fact that she isn't really a sweet, charismatic person deserving of the near worship she wants, and Horakita reminds her of that fact. Whichever, I'd bet my money on Kushida being one loosening screw away from becoming unhinged. |
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