Forum - View topicWhy Affordable Housing for Animators Matters (and What You Can Do to Help)
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Tenbyakugon
 Posts: 791 Location: Ohio, United States |
|
|||||
|
While it is a company's right to pay its producers as much as it feels necessary (and those more responsible ones know by basic economics that quality of compensation is contingent to quality of performance), going about such a project is, and don't get me wrong in saying this because this is a wonderfully intended project, sort of a form of condonation. Considering the line of work, the knowledge needed to perform, and the effort necessary, the producers should be paid exponentially more. The buck shouldn't stop with simply providing housing. Either the producers are paid more or the industry, as a result of not, slows down -- what really should happen.
|
||||||
|
||||||
Crext
 Posts: 211 |
|
|||||
|
Looking at this with fresh eyes, initially being frightened by the initial reporting, but somewhat moderating my view after crunching the numbers.
I'm looking at the average pays of different types of work within the industry. The average age of animators are 27 years old, while "unskilled work" are 24 years old. Paint staff, which is fairly similar is 26 years (but twice the pay), while production assistant is 30 years (and 3 times the pay). Those are the youngest entry levels jobs within the industry. In a way, after looking at the data, animators simply looks like "the stepping stone" for the most prominent talent in Japan. As I read in a different article here on ANN being an animator is but a point in the career of aspiring people to reach "key animator" (2,5 times the pay, average age 36). However, there are very many competing for these roles, as everyone would essentially want to make a living by drawing (I'm personally an engineer, and if my current pay wasn't like 1,5-3 times the amount of these guys (even if they make it to key animators), then I'd throw my work away and become an animator in the blink of an eye (communism wouldn't work in cases where people like me exist within the system I guess)). Anyways, I'm contributing through being a paying consumer for most parts, and I demand high quality animations more than anyone, but at the same time I understand why the animator role pays so little. It's basically meant as a temporary role/apprentice/internship, and as such a "break even" situation is basically ok. I even have a buddy who try to make it in the industry. He's basically a school dropout, with no work skills, living in his parents house (and on welfare) trying to get jobs through freelancing, which makes it very hard to get entry level jobs in order to showcast his skills. There are simply too many who'd want the job, if only temporarily to "test the waters" and see if they can make it big. As such the role of animators in Japan seem pretty similar to that of "bands", "wannabe movie stars" or "actors" in Western countries. Many try, but only the best/lucky make it big and can make a living off it. If you look at the music industry in the West for reference then 90% of all songs uploaded doesn't get played even once, 9% 1 times and within the last 1% maybe half of those people make above average pay, and then finally the insanely few superstars actually making decent a lot of money. For most it's a hobby, and never becomes more than that. However, to make the market even more competitive there are even plenty of people competing with those animator jobs outside those statistics. Privat pron producers and doujin makers, even short game producers, who also all try to enter the market to compete on the same areas of expertise. Judging from patreon and stuff, there are many who actually make it big in these areas, though who I'd believe doesn't show up in the statistics as they are not permanently employees (freelancers) and even do more work outside the animator part (basically do all of it themselves, but with much shorter scenes). The guys behind Food Wars were all from the "hentai industry" if I'm not mistaken. So making a jump from places like that aren't impossible either. However, if your successful in erotics you'd then probably have to take a pay cut (I'm guessing) vs a more steady job in the anime industry. In short, things are working as intended. More shows are created because many are competing for the costumer base, and if more costumers enter the market, the best animators will get a high pay raise from those extra profits, while the second best some and the worst will be out-competed still. However the best will no longer be hired as "animators", but rather "key artists", or "chief animator" (average age 42, and earn 5,5 times that of an animator). Anime is a highly competitive field of work, and if you can't "up your game" while being an animator, then you simply don't make the cut. Of course it can also come down to luck at times, making you spend more years down there than you should, if say the company you work for has poor writers/support staff in other areas, or generally produce a poor product the market doesn't want regardless of the animation quality. But animation is a big part of it, and if you at least can showcast that your part was done fairly well, then you'd rise in position eventually. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Banken
Posts: 1280 |
|
|||||
|
Earning 4-5 times $9,500 a year is *not* something highly-skilled and motivated individuals look forward to.
Given the level of skill required, even an inbetweener should really be making 30-40K or more if the industry operated properly. |
||||||
|
||||||
DerekL1963
 Subscriber Posts: 1113 Location: Puget Sound |
|
|||||
No, it's not. Like any place else, it's a lifetime job and only a few break through to the top jobs. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Crext
Posts: 211 |
|
|||||
Well, 10k is poverty in central Tokyo, but decent to good other places. I see your point however, considering the living expenses in the areas (I assume most) these people work, I'd say you're probably right. However, animators can be hired and work through the internet these days, as written in a different article here on ANN (if you want it I can fetch the source later). So the living costs of outside Tokyo or even in different countries are so low that those wages are livable to decent. Remember, animators are not the drawers or painters, their work is the "grunt work" of the industry and if you follow the 12 principals of animation, then most of the work is actually pretty simple from an artistic skill-based viewpoint (which is why it's an entry level position). Again, I'm simply looking from the outside in, knowing little about the situation in Japan, but I know how reporting tends to paint everything black or white these days, and if the animator shortage would bring the industry to a halt, then you wouldn't see its growth like you do these days. I'm all for giving the employees their fair share, and "artists", "musicians", "authors" and other entertainment "hobby" based occupations will always have the issue of the pay being lower because it's something "everybody" would want to do. If being an animator was a position somewhat guaranteed to give close to an average pay, then I'd do it myself. It beats what I'm doing now from an interest perspective without a doubt, but the low pay, which I knew about (I'm now 30), was a repellent from trying my luck on those dreams. The risk of not being successful is simply too great, and the payout of success wouldn't even be particularly big. The cure is for there to be an animator shortage, and then only the most motivated people will keep doing it (and eventually reap the rewards). Sadly, if those motivated people who are willing to do it for close to no pay exist in abundance, then the problem will never be solved as you got too many "hobby" people doing it for free as a temporarily occupation as "fun". Also, maybe this is just a sort of profession which could or rather should be outsourced to different countries entirely, as it's so easy to do that out of house coordination is enough. And I can tell you, as a demanding costumer, that if quality goes down as a result, I would follow those shows that keep the quality high. I buy say Japanese rather than Chinese, as the quality is a bit higher even if the price is higher as well. As for anime if the animators are crucial for quality, then that would mean the companies that hire and pay their (best) animators decent wages are the ones who would get the profits of my (and my demographics) consumption.
The data doesn't support your claim. Look at the average age. It clearly indicates that people either give up or gets promoted relatively fast. It could also be a case of underappreciated work of course, it's a valid hypothesis, and if the management are too incompetent to spot it, then there will be a collapse upon which the salaries of animators will skyrocket. This is more common in the public sector, (as the bosses aren't usually directly impacted by how smooth the system works until it all breaks down,) but also happens in private sector from time to time. We've seen this in many other areas, like garbagemen (as unskilled work) was earning more than engineers at some point due to it being so hard to get people to do the task. |
||||||
|
||||||
Puchacamilo
 Posts: 1 |
|
|||||
|
Hello to all, I trying to search some of the twitter accounts of the animators who are exposed in the article, but without results. Can someone know the twitter accounts to follow those awesome animators?.
That could be very nice if anyone knows it, and maybe they could do it in the future in every article. Thanks in advance. |
||||||
|
||||||
relyat08
 Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
|
|||||
Most of the time, if an industry person has a public twitter account, it is linked to their encyclopedia entry. If it's not there, and you searched their name on twitter(in Japanese and English), they probably aren't on twitter at all. It would appear that Hitomi Kariya has one, but it is private. You could also just follow this account, to keep up to date on the situation. A lot of these people probably don't have the time, or don't want to be too visible on the internet. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Banken
Posts: 1280 |
|
|||||
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..... No..... just....no. 10K is poverty wages in even the poorest parts of Japan. Especially for a skilled labor job. |
||||||
|
||||||
Unicorn_Blade
 Posts: 1153 Location: UK |
|
|||||
While I essentially agree, I don't know how much of overseas purchases actually go into animator's pockets. I presume not much, and that most of the money end of up pockets of people above them. Also I am pretty sure I read that the main income for studios is the Japanese market, where I believe illegal downloading is not such a big issue.
Welcome to any market in the world really. |
||||||
|
||||||
TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5825 Location: Virginia, United States |
|
|||||
Outsourcing has it's own set problems. Lack of control and time constraints (they go hand in hand) are the two biggest risks, especially for an industry that has enough problems with deadlines. |
||||||
|
||||||
Jose Cruz
 Posts: 1773 Location: South America |
|
|||||
I don't think so. Animators make such bad wages because they love their artform and so they are willing to work for a bad wage just to be an animator. I also note that many if not most animators are single girls who still live with their parents. Kinda like Aoba Suzukaze from New Game. This explains how the anime industry is able to produce 350 shows per year without being super mainstream and without revenues comparable to Hollywood for instance: it's a self sustaining otaku-economy that people with passion for animation are willing so sacrifice their living standards for. Anyway, I could live with 2,250 dollars a year in Minnesota if I didn't have to pay rent: 1,600 on groceries, 80 dollars on crunchyroll, 200 dollars on electricity and 220 dollars on the internet connection and 150 dollars on miscellaneous expenses. If you live with your parents you cost of living goes down to almost zero. |
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group