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(The) Ancient Magus' Bride (TV).


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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:01 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, I was curious how Elias came into possession of the house as well... perhaps we'll learn that in future episodes. I was happy to see some of Silky's backstory and get a better understanding of her role.

I was taken aback by Shannon's bedside manner at a certain point, but her method was effective. Another enchanting episode. Too bad the upcoming Christmas episode hadn't lined up better with the real one...
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DuskyPredator



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:08 am Reply with quote
Harleyquin wrote:
Unlike the role of harbingers of death they are most famous for in fantasy franchises, Banshees are more like Domovoi in this franchise in their attachment to specific homes and the human families which dwell in them.


But that may still have been her role, it is kind of a mix between the two. I am actually kind of proud I figured out that Silky was a Banshee before the characters in the show said it, the image they showed of her past just automatically screamed "Banshee". The signature look of crying too.

I think that the more modern ideas of banshee are of putting them with White Lady, ghosts of women in white that would foretell death, by screaming, and could be malevolent. Banshee similarly foretell death, by the signature wailing, but they were more of something attached to the family, not actually evil, but a warning to the family of mourning. Although I think the legends are kind of muddled that they could be bad banshee regardless.

So I think Silky may to some extent be a fairy which is a harbinger of death, which does not mean she actually brought death, but foretold it, and is clear that her role was kind of painful, and wanted to spend more time with the members.
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Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:22 am Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:


But that may still have been her role, it is kind of a mix between the two. I am actually kind of proud I figured out that Silky was a Banshee before the characters in the show said it, the image they showed of her past just automatically screamed "Banshee". The signature look of crying too.

I think that the more modern ideas of banshee are of putting them with White Lady, ghosts of women in white that would foretell death, by screaming, and could be malevolent. Banshee similarly foretell death, by the signature wailing, but they were more of something attached to the family, not actually evil, but a warning to the family of mourning. Although I think the legends are kind of muddled that they could be bad banshee regardless.

So I think Silky may to some extent be a fairy which is a harbinger of death, which does not mean she actually brought death, but foretold it, and is clear that her role was kind of painful, and wanted to spend more time with the members.


It's very clear from the comments of the two vampires passing by that Banshees in this franchise reside in the household and their voices as used more for singing than for screeching (憑いている家族は絶えちゃった泣き女は悲惨ね) (あんたの声を聴いてくれる家族はいないんだから). Collections of Celtic folk monsters mentioned Banshees being linked to famous and important households with their screams heralding the death of a clan member or being the cause of death outright. Considering how Silky in her flashback has what is either the worst case of laryngitis I've seen in animated productions or vocal chords which are almost gone due to lack of use, I'm guessing she is rendered more as a household guardian with the family finding her voice not one of terror but one of enjoyment.

What the folk tales don't mention is what happens to Banshees after they have been rendered homeless when the last clan member they are attached to dies without an heir. Spriggan hints that the role of a Banshee in this franchise is to perform its role at its chosen household and to fade away once the family dies and the residence is abandoned. Since Silky asked for an extension, she was granted it with a new household to live with.
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DuskyPredator



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:59 am Reply with quote
Well, just a general Wikipedia search.
Quote:
banshee (/ˈbænʃiː/ BAN-shee; Modern Irish bean sí, baintsí, from Old Irish: ben síde, baintsíde, pronounced [bʲen ˈʃiːðʲe, banti:ðe], "woman of the fairy mound" or "fairy woman") is a female spirit in Irish mythology who heralds the death of a family member, usually by wailing, shrieking, or keening. As other cultures believe, she hears voices, and predicts the death of a supernatural being. Her name is connected to the mythologically important tumuli or "mounds" that dot the Irish countryside, which are known as síde (singular síd) in Old Irish.

................
Irish legend speaks of a lament being sung by a fairy woman; she would sing it when a family member died or was about to die, even if the person had died far away and news of their death had not yet come, so that the wailing of the banshee was the first warning the household had of the death.[5][6]
She also predicts death. If someone is about to enter a situation where it is unlikely they will come out of alive she will warn people by screaming or wailing. Hence why a banshee is also known as a wailing woman.
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Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:25 am Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:
Well, just a general Wikipedia search.
Quote:
banshee (/ˈbænʃiː/ BAN-shee; Modern Irish bean sí, baintsí, from Old Irish: ben síde, baintsíde, pronounced [bʲen ˈʃiːðʲe, banti:ðe], "woman of the fairy mound" or "fairy woman") is a female spirit in Irish mythology who heralds the death of a family member, usually by wailing, shrieking, or keening. As other cultures believe, she hears voices, and predicts the death of a supernatural being. Her name is connected to the mythologically important tumuli or "mounds" that dot the Irish countryside, which are known as síde (singular síd) in Old Irish.

................
Irish legend speaks of a lament being sung by a fairy woman; she would sing it when a family member died or was about to die, even if the person had died far away and news of their death had not yet come, so that the wailing of the banshee was the first warning the household had of the death.[5][6]
She also predicts death. If someone is about to enter a situation where it is unlikely they will come out of alive she will warn people by screaming or wailing. Hence why a banshee is also known as a wailing woman.


What happened to your vaunted collection of folktales from the local library?

Easiest way to prove you're right and I'm wrong is to get someone who's read this all the way to the latest chapter to give a definitive answer. I'm leaning towards me being wrong (only so much to go on based on two sentences) but would prefer a neutral 3rd party to settle it.
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:40 am Reply with quote
Well, going on what we've seen of Silky so far, I'd have to agree with Harleyquin that in this franchise, banshees seem to have more of a household guardian role than a harbinger of death function. That's not to say that DP can't be right about a mixed role, it's just that we have not actually seen the harbinger of death thing from Silky yet, if it exists for her. We have certainly seen plenty indicating a household guardian role.

The other thing is - and Harleyquin can probably confirm this - are the subtitles correct? I know the subtitles identify her as a banshee, but is that what the Japanese audio indicated as well?
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Harleyquin



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:46 am Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Well, going on what we've seen of Silky so far, I'd have to agree with Harleyquin that in this franchise, banshees seem to have more of a household guardian role than a harbinger of death function. That's not to say that DP can't be right about a mixed role, it's just that we have not actually seen the harbinger of death thing from Silky yet, if it exists for her. We have certainly seen plenty indicating a household guardian role.

The other thing is - and Harleyquin can probably confirm this - are the subtitles correct? I know the subtitles identify her as a banshee, but is that what the Japanese audio indicated as well?


The vampire and Spriggan pronounce it as "Bun-shee" in line with the Japanese transliteration so there's no controversy there.
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DuskyPredator



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:20 am Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Well, going on what we've seen of Silky so far, I'd have to agree with Harleyquin that in this franchise, banshees seem to have more of a household guardian role than a harbinger of death function. That's not to say that DP can't be right about a mixed role, it's just that we have not actually seen the harbinger of death thing from Silky yet, if it exists for her. We have certainly seen plenty indicating a household guardian role.


But I was actually saying it is not really a new thing to say a banshee are a household guardian thing, it is just that their main role was to warn of any impending deaths and mourn for them, it can fit in with the classic lore that a banshee would not mean ill to the family it haunted. They were not necessarily an evil thing.

The mixed role I talked about was that popular culture has more connected Banshees as a negative force of other things, while Silky does not seem to be that. If anything it seems she was encouraged to expand her role to be more personal with the family. But I also think it would probably be the case that Silky might be the first to learn either of her housemates might be at the end, and would be her nature to then speak.

Actually, one confusing aspect is on the Changeling, where a number of the stories I have seen have often put them as being more of elderly faeries near the end of their life, and would slowly whither away. Actually sad that the Changeling stories were sort of ways that parents could deal with the loss of a child by thinking they were living on in the faerie land. And, does it mean that they had a male baby which was replaced by a female changeling?
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:29 am Reply with quote
Now I am particularly curious as to how Silky and Elias got connected. Spriggan gave her her first extension but it was clearly a human family in what is now Elias's house. Obviously that family is gone. Does that mean Silky got another extension with Elias? I suppose another (highly unlikely) possibility is that Elias became part of that human family, would naturally have outlived them all, and therefore Silky merely continued on with him. I hope we eventually find out.

Just noticed a post in the TAMB episode review thread in Talkback that has bearing on the recent discussion about Silky and the role of banshees in this franchise. A manga reader claims that in the manga:

spoiler[...there's a scene where she tries to attach herself to another family, whose grandfather is about to die, but they already have a banshee there. And the parents are explaining to their kids about how banshees cry loudest when good men pass. It's not just a random narrator note.]

(Note: this is not a plot spoiler, it simply notes a detail in the manga that was not included in the anime.)

Here's the link to the post in question: animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=4996753#4996753
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Alan45
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Joined: 25 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:04 pm Reply with quote
@Blood-

I've looked at that scene. I think the poster in the Talkback thread is partially wrong. The scene is bordered in black indicating that it is a flashback within her dream of her past. It appears to take place outside the window of the same cottage that is shown in ruins in her dream.

The best I can tell from the manga. In the scene where her wrist starts to unravel, she is fading away as her existence as a banshee is at an end. At that point in addition to changing her appearance, Spriggen changes her nature to that of a house spirit. What he says in the process is: "While a house may crumble as long as someone yet lives a home will never die. While at least one being resides within a light will ever shine in its windows. If the light that once warmed you has faded perhaps it is now your turn to guard the light that shines for others."

Basically she is no longer a banshee. This solves the problem that a banshee is usually only there to wail for the dead or dying. This is supported in volume one. When Chise first sees Silky, Elias says " She is the neighbor who lives here - a silky." " Silkies are spirits who enjoy dealing with the domestic matters of the houses where they live. She's my house-keeper in essence - - Cooking cleaning, even tending the hearth." This implies that "Silky" is her type of fae. That may be a mistranslation as elsewhere Silky is consistently used as her name, with Silver Lady as a nickname. Spriggin seems to have named her.

As an aside, Seven Seas prints extras on the inside of the front and back covers. (These may have been on the outside of the covers but under the slip cover of the original manga volumes) The one inside the front cover is usually "Silky's Diary". She and Spriggin have a "thing" going on. She sends him letters and food baskets and he sends her letters and flowers by centaur post.

Inside the back cover are drawings of the layout of the rooms in Elias's home and other places.

There is nothing to suggest how Elias obtained the home from the family in residence when Silky arrived. I think she is now part of the house and goes with it.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:28 pm Reply with quote
Interesting. It didn't bother me, Alan45, but the information from the manga you conveyed should be in spoiler tags. God knows I've "yelled" at enough posters for not doing that, so I have to maintain logical consistency even when I don't personally feel miffed.

In any case, your explanation certainly clears things up for me, at least.
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:53 pm Reply with quote
@Blood-

Every thing from the manga I mentioned has already been covered by the anime. I didn't discuss anything beyond the current episode. That is the stuff that is supposed to be spoiler tagged.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:51 pm Reply with quote
Ah. I guess I was thrown by the sentence, "The best I can tell from the manga." My bad.
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Cam0



Joined: 13 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:29 pm Reply with quote
I thought that doctor had hair a bit similar to Cartaphilus. Oberon said they found her recently so I thought there might be a connection, but maybe not.
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Harleyquin



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:59 pm Reply with quote
Regarding what kind of fae Silky is in her present form:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownie_(folklore)

There's even a note in the popular culture section referencing Silky. Wikipedia being what it is, I'm not endorsing the article's claim 100% but no longer have first-hand access to a proper library or academic journal which would conclusively support my argument.
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