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INTEREST: Niji-Iro Hotaru Director Responds to your name. Plagiarism Claim


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kotomikun



Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 907
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:17 pm Reply with quote
I guess it's once again time for "Famous Thing Definitely Plagiarized Obscure Thing (like and subscribe!)."

Honestly, that whole running sequence felt pretty formulaic; you could probably find equally similar clips in many other anime, and non-anime. It's not like they traced the artwork--the basic layout of shots is the same, but all the details are completely different.

spoiler[The tumble at the end was probably a deliberate reference, and it's possible the rest was inspired by that movie from 2012 that I first heard of five minutes ago (with 34 user ratings on ANN, compared to Girl Who Leapt Through Time's 5,481) but it's more likely just a coincidence. You'd need a lot more than this to call it a ripoff.]


{Edit}: Added spoiler tags. ~ Psycho 101

...I have no idea how any of that is a spoiler, since it's just talking about the shots in the video from the article, which aren't related to the plot in and of themselves, but... okay.


Last edited by kotomikun on Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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xBTAx



Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 180
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:19 pm Reply with quote
Uhhhh that last sentence sure is an unmarked spoiler for Your Name. I've already seen it in theaters, but other people haven't and that's not something that you'd necessarily know about it going in at all.
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0nsen



Joined: 01 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:32 pm Reply with quote
It's a homage, right?
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#861208



Joined: 07 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:03 pm Reply with quote
I'm not hugely into animation as an art form, but this definitely seems like somewhere between homage and coincidence.

Meanwhile, there are a lot of popular anime/games that rip off characters from less popular anime, and people don't notice. Or they think it's a coincidence.

There' is this one anime that got pretty horribly ripped off by a really popular thing that came out in between its first and second seasons, but after the second season, the original is getting really popular, and I can't wait to see if people start to notice. The characters are even played by the same voice actor.
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Arale Kurashiki



Joined: 24 Aug 2015
Posts: 627
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:25 pm Reply with quote
I don't think references are really a problem if you're still doing the animation yourself. Danganronpa 3 had two shots that were direct recreations of shots in Utena for example. Of course it's probably treated more seriously in the boring movie scene.
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Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 5250
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:30 pm Reply with quote
This is just people doing things in similar situations. That's like saying every boxing match is plagiarism of another because they're mostly "the same". These scenes are different enough in almost every way to not be plagiarism. One thing I know 100% for certain, is that Makoto Shinkai doesn't have time to intentionally copy people. He hardly watches modern films from what I remember.

Anyway, you should have some respect from your readers and mark your spoilers....
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harminia



Joined: 24 Aug 2015
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Location: australia
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:46 pm Reply with quote
It's impossible to know if it's a coincidence or a rip off or a homage without knowing the thoughts of the people behind the scenes........



On the plus side, I want to watch Niji-Iro Hotaru. The animation looks really nice and Uda seems pretty chill and sensible.
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1831
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:15 pm Reply with quote
Jury's still out for me on Niji-Iro Hotaru, but while watching Your Name in the theater, that tumble sequence definitely reminded me of The Girl Who Leapt Through Time. However, I'd say it feels much more like a case of someone seeing that scene and wanting to do something like it rather than outright plagiarism--more inspired by than copied.
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wastrel



Joined: 26 Oct 2012
Posts: 292
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:35 pm Reply with quote
xBTAx wrote:
Uhhhh that last sentence sure is an unmarked spoiler for Your Name. I've already seen it in theaters, but other people haven't and that's not something that you'd necessarily know about it going in at all.
Thanks, I'm glad I didn't read the whole thing!
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GregoriusU



Joined: 01 May 2015
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:19 pm Reply with quote
Just because there are a few actions and shots in similar narrative situations is not evidence of plagiarism. I've seen people claim stories have been plagiarized based on three words. That's really not enough. !0 or more in a row? That's a different story. Plagiarism has to be a continued DUPLICATION from one work into another that is explainable in no other way but deliberate appropriation.

In these two sequences, there are some very similar shots, but this could be explained by use of the same prototype for the setting. You could call this "accidental" borrowing: where one director might see the perfect setup for a shot, another might see the same setup without having appropriated it from the first. Not plagiarism, coincidence.

There is also "unintentional" borrowing, where a director might set up a sequence, NOT REMEMBERING having seen an earlier one which he unintentionally copies aspects of. I would not call this plagiarism either because it was an unconscious appropriation.

PLAGIARISM must be DELIBERATE and it must be more than an amount that could be explained by coincidence or accident. I don't think the two sequences warrant the charges.

On the other hand, we must remember tthe words ascribed to Picasso: "Good artists borrow, great artists steal." Wink
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2weird4u



Joined: 21 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:20 pm Reply with quote
#861208 wrote:

There' is this one anime that got pretty horribly ripped off by a really popular thing that came out in between its first and second seasons, but after the second season, the original is getting really popular, and I can't wait to see if people start to notice. The characters are even played by the same voice actor.


Really? Which one is that?
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harminia



Joined: 24 Aug 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:26 pm Reply with quote
2weird4u wrote:
#861208 wrote:

There' is this one anime that got pretty horribly ripped off by a really popular thing that came out in between its first and second seasons, but after the second season, the original is getting really popular, and I can't wait to see if people start to notice. The characters are even played by the same voice actor.


Really? Which one is that?


I feel like there's enough clues here to figure it out by oneself but I'm not sure what it is and I don't think I have time to research..................
spoiler[is the voice actor yuki kaji though]
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#854626



Joined: 04 Apr 2016
Posts: 171
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:53 pm Reply with quote
i believe, though are brains dont really catch it, that anime rip off scenes from eachother all the time. in another of shinkais movies called your name, theres a scene where this girl is getting choked by this demon and this kid with a long curved knife jumps in and cuts the arms of the demon off, and it looked just like when guts saved casca during the conviction arc, only the new anime wasnt even out then so he took it straight from the manga,

but i mean come on. if every scene in anime were original, well, there wouldnt be anything left to animate. to do the camera angle different everytime and everything is nuts. if animators can legally get sued in japan for stuff like that thats stupid and needs to change. maybe if you just blatantly animate a character from another franchise well ok then.

honestly i think this guy or girl is just jelous of shinkai and wants dirty copyright claim money.
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Kikaioh



Joined: 01 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:02 pm Reply with quote
There are a bit too many similarities between the shot compositions, the character motions, the timing, etc., for it to be a coincidence. And homages would normally prompt the copier to be fairly explicit in their referencing, or at least vocal in their fandom of the original work.

Would I call it plagiarism though? Not sure. Plagiarism is usually taking credit for someone else's work, which is little bit of what's happening here. But it's a bit broader, since it's more like taking someone's very specific idea and doing your own rendition of it.

To my knowledge, Makoto Shinkai uses lots of reference photos for the backgrounds in his movies, so it's not unthinkable that he may have borrowed a sequence from another film. Heck, Children Who Chase Lost Voices was very clearly his own attempt to ape the Ghibli style of movies, so there's something of a precedent there already. Even Your Name in and of itself feels like a mashup of old Western situational comedies like Groundhog Day and Serendipity put through the filter of Japanese teenage drama.

In any event, Miyazaki was pretty on the money when he called the current era of content creators the "copycat" generation. With other films like Lu Over the Wall, and Mary and the Witch's Flower also trying to build off the success of Ghibli's classics, it seems there's not much room for creative pioneering in the production committee system these days.
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harminia



Joined: 24 Aug 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:01 pm Reply with quote
Kikaioh wrote:

In any event, Miyazaki was pretty on the money when he called the current era of content creators the "copycat" generation. With other films like Lu Over the Wall, and Mary and the Witch's Flower also trying to build off the success of Ghibli's classics, it seems there's not much room for creative pioneering in the production committee system these days.


to be fair, it's inevitable that more and more stuff will be deemed as "copycat" or similar to other works. With more and more stuff being produced there's more stuff to compare stuff to. Sometimes people are building off of others success or somewhat copying ideas, but its also harder for people to produce purely original stuff (unless they make something that's original but also completely mess of ideas), and its harder for stuff to be recognised because everyone's like OH THIS IS LIKE SUCH AND SUCH.
Someone could make a movie and not have any idea about Ghiblis works and have never seen any, but their movie might still be slightly similar enough that everyone will start calling it inspired by ghibli or a rip off or so on.
just gonna be a fact of life as the years go by. all the ideas are slowly being used already
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