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Answerman - Why Is Sentai Filmworks Phasing Out DVDs?


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chaccide



Joined: 16 Aug 2016
Posts: 295
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:00 pm Reply with quote
The only Blu-ray players in our house are on our computers. And of course the protection on the discs is so strict that it doesn't allow the computers to even recognize those discs. Why on Earth would I invest in Blu-rays if they're actively trying to keep me from watching them? I buy very few series, but frankly now I won't buy any. I'll just have to stick with streaming.
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 3804
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:40 pm Reply with quote
Maybe Justin knows the answer to this, but is there evidence that the additional protections added to the Blu-ray format have actually made any real difference in rates of piracy? Mostly they just seem to interfere with people's desire to watch programming on the discs that they have purchased.

The most heavily-pirated show in the world is "Game of Thrones." Those episodes aren't coming from ripping BDs.
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mangamuscle



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2658
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:05 pm Reply with quote
yuna49 wrote:
is there evidence that the additional protections added to the Blu-ray format have actually made any real difference in rates of piracy?


If there was any evidence the haMPAA would be shouting it louder than climate change deniers do. Remember there were many years before DVD was broken, same can be said about blu-ray and if there was some kind of sharp decline in sales due to broken DRM it should appear from the month the protection was broken, even if they do not share their sales data, they obviously have it. Heck, in dvd protection was optional and some DVDs that are not done by big studios do not have it. Sadly in blu-ray drm is not optional (I would call that racketeering since it increases production costs).

Bottom line, it is not about how many pirate copies are done, but about disc sales numbers, which has been in decline for several years due to streaming, not piracy.
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4426
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:17 am Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
GSAttack wrote:
I hope that Nozomi and Sentai will at least make these Blu-ray titles a bit more affordable with all the money they should be saving from not manufacturing a DVD version.

You want these companies to offer their disc releases at even lower prices? With the exception of imports and AoA and PCUSA releases, BD anime releases are very affordable. $60-70 MSRP for 12 episodes (especially if they include a brand new dub) is fair. Companies still need to turn in profits, and it costs money to bring these releases to the market.


While it would be nice for us if cutting production costs for each show meant cheaper blu-rays, I'm not expecting that. And honestly, I'm ok with the idea of anime companies holding onto those savings considering profit margins are notoriously thin.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:14 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
By the way, Nozomi also recently announced that they are dropping DVD's. I hope the rest of the publishers go BD only soon and that DVD is only used for old stuff.


I'm not sure why you hope that a company will stop selling something. From the perspective of the consumer, it's best for a company to provide as much choice as possible. I can understand a company no longer selling something because it's no longer practical, profitable, or possible, but I don't see the logic in why a consumer would want a company to stop selling a product unless that product is terrible, illegal, and/or harmful.

partially wrote:
I find this amusing given they are the company that for so many years was a steadfast holdout for NOT releasing titles on BD. Although from an economic standpoint makes sense, concentrating on one format means significantly less costs. The very reason I haven't understood why most anime companies didn't make a switch to BD only years ago. Most people buying DVD I have noticed already have a BD player, they just continue to buy the DVD version because they are used to it and on their setup it makes no difference. Give them no choice and they buy the BD. There are some holdouts that completely refuse BD, but I really think they have been the minority for years.


Me, the reason why I'd buy a DVD rather than a Blu-Ray is because the DVD costs less. The biggest factor to me is the presence, or lack thereof, of bonus features.

GeorgeC wrote:
Old games? Oh boy... They never made the HD sets with the old games in mind. I sometimes think the programs that run older games in emulation on PCs work better than some of the old consoles do now. The games don't look "as bad" and they often times have filters to emulate the old look of the CRT on the computer monitors and these things actually work fairly well most of the time. But it IS a pain to have to keep and maintain older hardware (game consoles, CRTs) because sooner or later, they WILL wear out. Most likely old CD-based game systems will wear out (the drive motors) before a CRT will. A maintained CRT that isn't constantly on all-day can last at least 25-30 some years.


Something most people don't realize regarding old game on CRT TVs versus HD TVs is that HD televisions have a very small amount of lag between your input and what you'll see onscreen whereas a CRT has negligible lag (it's at the speed of light, which is fast enough that the human brain can't really perceive the lag). As a result, some of the hardest of the hardcore retro gamers, speedrunners, and competitors will play these games only on CRTs to avoid that input lag. Modern games are built with that sort of lag in mind such that you're not supposed to realize it's there.

Kalessin wrote:
The fact that DVDs would get phased out in favor of Blu-rays isn't really a surprise beyond when it would happen. The bigger question is the future of physical discs in general and how 4K will fare. Given how many folks can't seem to see the difference between SD and HD (much as I don't understand that)...


Oh, that's easy. It's the hardcore market versus the casual market. You're part of the hardcore group, as are most people who'd be on this site, so you'd be pretty discerning with video resolution and seeing it from a glance. I'm at the point where I can tell the difference but I have to consciously look at it and concentrate to see it. Regular, normal people who aren't fans will see it as all the same.

This rule applies to pretty much everything that's got dedicated fans. I could tell you if a race is Mario Kart 8 or Mario Kart 8 Deluxe watching a video on YouTube. A non-fan might only be able to identify it as Mario Kart and nothing more, or not know what it is at all. I could look at a Medieval Madness pinball machine and tell you whether it's the original Williams release in 1998 or Stern's remake in 2015. Give me some cooked pasta from different brands and I will tell you which one is Barrilla.

On the flip side, as far as my father was concerned, every hamburger is exactly the same. He literally would not be able to tell you the difference between a hamburger from McDonald's and one from Lawry's, and he would eat them both with equal satisfaction (or dissatisfaction, as he didn't like hamburgers much). I am the same with cars: I can only tell you which company made it by the emblem on the back and what color the car was, but car enthusiasts can identify year, make, and model immediately at minimum.

angelmcazares wrote:
You want these companies to offer their disc releases at even lower prices? With the exception of imports and AoA and PCUSA releases, BD anime releases are very affordable. $60-70 MSRP for 12 episodes (especially if they include a brand new dub) is fair. Companies still need to turn in profits, and it costs money to bring these releases to the market.


Meanwhile, for $25 you can get 24 to 26 episodes of South Park. Then again, what counts as "affordable" depends on how much money you make, how much you have to spend, what the hobby is, and if you have any other hobbies. I personally find spending $60 to $70 as a purchase that I'd BETTER have an extended good experience with.
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:35 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Meanwhile, for $25 you can get 24 to 26 episodes of South Park.

The economics of American television series on DVD/BD is entirely different from the economics of most anime series. US television programs are financed by the advertising revenues they earn during their initial run. Most shows have broken even after that run concludes. Revenues from domestic syndication, overseas licensing and disc sales are where the profits lie.

Anime series rarely have much in the way of contemporaneous advertising. For many late-night shows the production committees buy time from the television networks since the audiences are too small to attract most advertisers. As a result disc sales constitute a much, much larger share of total program revenues for anime than they do for shows like South Park. One consequence is that anime discs sell for higher prices than their American counterparts.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:01 pm Reply with quote
yuna49 wrote:
The economics of American television series on DVD/BD is entirely different from the economics of most anime series. US television programs are financed by the advertising revenues they earn during their initial run. Most shows have broken even after that run concludes. Revenues from domestic syndication, overseas licensing and disc sales are where the profits lie.

Anime series rarely have much in the way of contemporaneous advertising. For many late-night shows the production committees buy time from the television networks since the audiences are too small to attract most advertisers. As a result disc sales constitute a much, much larger share of total program revenues for anime than they do for shows like South Park. One consequence is that anime discs sell for higher prices than their American counterparts.


Of course. I've been on this site long enough to have read about that. But from the perspective of the consumer who knows nothing about this production process and how money is distributed, there's little incentive for someone who equally likes both anime and US television (and European television, whose system is different but their home video is in a similar price range) to buy home video on anime as, to them, they're being charged double or triple their alternatives. And even to some who are in the know, they might not care. To many, $25 a season is affordable, but $60 to $70 is not. That was the point I was making: "Affordable" is highly variable based on the perspective of both the speaker and the addressee.

(FUNimation has been very good at narrowing the price gap. I don't know how they do it, but I'd bet that's a major factor on why they're America's biggest and most well-known anime localization company: They're able to get the audience who are into anime but won't buy any home video releases for more than $30 unless it's a multi-disc pack.)
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mangamuscle



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2658
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:33 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
[(FUNimation has been very good at narrowing the price gap. I don't know how they do it, but I'd bet that's a major factor on why they're America's biggest and most well-known anime localization company: They're able to get the audience who are into anime but won't buy any home video releases for more than $30 unless it's a multi-disc pack.)


The answer should be obvious, english dubs. Even on the VHS era, animes that were dubbed to english had lower prices and a were produced on a larger scale (whereas subtitle only tapes had a higher price and were harder to come by). Higher production volumes means lower prices. That is why sentai has been dubbing it's catalog, that is where the real money is. Even stinkers like hand shakers will no doubt sell more discs that many critically acclaimed subtitle-only anime series for the simple reason that it has been dubbed to english and if Funimation went into the trouble of dubbing a serie the most likely reason is that many people watched said series, Funimation can press a disc knowing how many people watch it until the end, gone are the days of companies going broke because they had no idea how well a series would be recieved by the english speaking public and printing more discs that public demand would require.
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Sakagami Tomoyo



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 940
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:04 pm Reply with quote
Zin5ki wrote:
Most interesting. Do regional restrictions still apply when using it, or does the decryption process bypass them entirely?

Bypasses them entirely. I got this software and a Blu-ray drive specifically to play Region A imports, since my only other player was a PS3 and I didn't want to spend the (at the time) hundreds of dollars on a second standalone player.
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Kalessin



Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 931
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:13 pm Reply with quote
Sakagami Tomoyo wrote:
Zin5ki wrote:
Most interesting. Do regional restrictions still apply when using it, or does the decryption process bypass them entirely?

Bypasses them entirely. I got this software and a Blu-ray drive specifically to play Region A imports, since my only other player was a PS3 and I didn't want to spend the (at the time) hundreds of dollars on a second standalone player.


I don't know about the players, but software can be had for Windows which will bypass all of the software restrictions on Blu-ray - including the really dumb stuff like how Windows actually degrades the video if you're using DVI because of licensing stupidity.

It's too bad that the companies making this stuff can't/won't just sell us the discs without any restrictions and let us easily watch what we paid for. They seem to think that they need to control how we watch the stuff. Sad

Of course, the fact that many folks do willing pirate stuff when they can doesn't help, but those of us who are actually willing to pay for the shows that we watch end up suffering as a result.
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Sakagami Tomoyo



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 940
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:20 pm Reply with quote
Kalessin wrote:
It's too bad that the companies making this stuff can't/won't just sell us the discs without any restrictions and let us easily watch what we paid for. They seem to think that they need to control how we watch the stuff. Sad

Of course, the fact that many folks do willing pirate stuff when they can doesn't help, but those of us who are actually willing to pay for the shows that we watch end up suffering as a result.

Of course, the joke of it is that while they instituted such draconian restrictions to prevent people pirating the content, even if the copy protection hadn't been broken, the content's already out there pirated from other sources anyway. And in presenting such restrictions in the legit product which aren't there in the pirated one, people look at the legit Blu-ray and think "well I could get that but I can't watch it on what I want to because of bullcrap restrictions, but if I download it, no such problem". The anti-piracy measures make people more likely to pirate.

The argument can also be made that while anti-piracy is the stated reason for the restrictions, the actual intent is to force people to buy/rent multiple formats for the same thing, which also doesn't tend to make people less likely to want to pirate.
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Maidenoftheredhand



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 2633
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:43 am Reply with quote
DerekL1963 wrote:
I guess I'm old... I still remember the shockwaves when Blockbuster announced they would soon stop purchasing VHS, and that tapes in inventory would be replaced with DVD's as the tapes wore out. (This would have been in the late 90's or early 00's.) In the pre-streaming world, obsoleting an entire media system was *huge*.

Their 2007 announcement that they were doing the same with BD over DVD's caused barely a ripple. On one hand, the two media could played on the same player. On the other, Netflix was already eating Blockbuster's lunch and though it didn't know it yet Blockbuster was essentially dead. (Not only because of Netflix and Redbox, but the nascent streaming services too.)


The fact that DVD can be played on BR is a big factor why it's not as big of a deal. Even though I hate VHS one bad thing about the move to DVD it essentially meant a lot of content was lost that was never released on DVD (not just anime but in general).

Anyways I don't consider my DVD collection defunct or anything and I have definitely not rebought everything I have on BR.

I definitely held out for a long time. My worry is when Europe/Australia goes BR only because I still haven't found a good player to play International BR in the way I can play International DVDs. Region coding sucks. And I am worried about when my current DVD player goes and I can't play the non-region 1 DVDs I have if they stop making DVD players all together. Although it did take them awhile to stop making VCR's.

The question is with the move to digital will anything eventually replace the BR?
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Just Passing Through



Joined: 04 Apr 2011
Posts: 276
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:35 am Reply with quote
Maidenoftheredhand wrote:


I definitely held out for a long time. My worry is when Europe/Australia goes BR only because I still haven't found a good player to play International BR in the way I can play International DVDs. Region coding sucks. And I am worried about when my current DVD player goes and I can't play the non-region 1 DVDs I have if they stop making DVD players all together. Although it did take them awhile to stop making VCR's.

The question is with the move to digital will anything eventually replace the BR?


Panasonic Blu-ray players can be made region free for DVD with a remote code. I've had two, makes it nice watching progressive DVDs at 24fps.

Hopefully by the time we're all stressing about Blu-ray Region coding as DVD's dead as an alternative, UHD will be the mainstream, as the 4K disc medium has no region coding at all. Although I doubt that will happen. Studios want control over their content, much prefer renting it out than selling it, and the mainstream will be streaming. You'll only be able to watch what they want you to watch, and old content will vanish as soon as servers are switched off, erased to make room for new stuff. It'll almost be back to the old days pre-VHS when live TV was all we had and the only people who had hardcopy home media were those who bought 8mm film digests.
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Kazemon15



Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 400
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:29 pm Reply with quote
My biggest concern with this is obviously their locked subtitle debacle. Im hard of hearing, so I rely on subtitles to watch a series dubbed. I love dubbed anime. This is the main reason I chose DVD over BD. However, with the recent display of locking their DVDs now as well as their BDs, I have stopped buying Sentai's DVDs altogether.

I just wish they can fix the issue with this. Please please please PLEEEEASE fix this issue. Why should I be punished for being born with a hearing loss and unable to watch English dub with Subtitles on? I dont want to watch it in Japanese. I want to watch it in English. Closed captioning exists. Subtitles for the Deaf and Hard of hearing exist. There is NO reason why ONLY anime should be left out of putting these into their practice. EVERYONE else adds them. EVERYONE...except anime companies.
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:52 am Reply with quote
Was looking through the Sentai Sale going on at rightstufanime at the moment... If Sentai really are serious about phasing out DVDs, it'd be nice if they could go back and release BDs for their many DVD-only titles that are out on Blu-Ray in Japan. Specifically: 11eyes, Abenobashi, Akane-iro ni somaru saka, Croisée in a Foreign Labyrinth, Hatsukoi Limited, Kobato, Koihime Musou (all seasons), Kurenai, Le Portrait de Petite Cossette, A Little Snow Fairy Sugar, Mahoromatic, Mashiro-iro Symphony, Modern Magic Made Simple, Princess Tutu, Rozen Maiden/Traumend/Ouverture, Tears to Tiara, and Tayutama, among others I may have missed.

leafy sea dragon wrote:
Something most people don't realize regarding old game on CRT TVs versus HD TVs is that HD televisions have a very small amount of lag between your input and what you'll see onscreen whereas a CRT has negligible lag (it's at the speed of light, which is fast enough that the human brain can't really perceive the lag). As a result, some of the hardest of the hardcore retro gamers, speedrunners, and competitors will play these games only on CRTs to avoid that input lag. Modern games are built with that sort of lag in mind such that you're not supposed to realize it's there.
I know I noticed it after I got an HDTV 4 years ago and hooked up my game consoles (all of which are old) to it. I'd been wondering what to do with my hefty 2003 27" CRT TV before that point, but I've kept it around since then, just for video games. I'd consider using it for DVDs via component cables, but my similarly-aged DVD player is temperamental about opening the disc tray, so I only keep it around for its surround sound system. The TV itself still works pretty well, aside from the remote sensor not functioning anymore and having to switch input modes manually.
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