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INTEREST: Fans Take to Change.org To Bring Back Former Kemono Friends Director


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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3448
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:08 pm Reply with quote
WANNFH wrote:
So basically, all of their doing for now is just trying to have the IP all over by themselves (even if it means of it's dying on thr peak), and saving their face from the completely outraged fanbase by doing cheap moves, like seiyuu apologizing for them.

What I wonder is what Kadokawa hopes to achieve bringing this whole mess?

It's not like they're switching the director of your generic harem anime #7 for the second season, more like if they asked Miyazaki to step aside for Castle in the Sky after him directing Nausicaa a few years earlier. Wonder how that would have turned out...
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Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 5527
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:17 pm Reply with quote
WANNFH wrote:
The facts clearly say that Kadokawa by any means wanted to gain full control on the Kemono Friends IP future products, even if it means to kick out the ones who made it gold in the first place - the same thing that Konami did long ago with Kojima. Their statement about "misappropriate use of their IP" (not even copyright infringement, because they can't claim it - just misapproriate use!) was the blatant lie - JRA and Nissin, that dragged to all of this bullshit, refuted the claims and says that they did had Kadokawa agreement to their collabs - exactly opposite of Kadokawa's statement.

So basically, all of their doing for now is just trying to have the IP all over by themselves (even if it means of it's dying on the peak), and saving their face from the completely outraged fanbase by doing cheap moves, like seiyuu apologizing for them.


That's honestly just a theory. FACTS a provable. Can you prove, 100%, that that's their motives? Again, I'm not saying I don't believe you to be wrong, I just don't see it was a concrete fact. I thought they already had full control over it to begin with. I'm not even sure if he made it "gold" in the first place....it might've ended up that way with a different director. The existence of the anime itself might've been enough for it to be popular. It wasn't really a good anime by any means.
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Chrono1000





PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:24 pm Reply with quote
Kougeru wrote:
I need more details on WHY he got fired before I can take any side. As far as I know, he might've deserved it. People are being unfair by assuming he's innocent and Kadokawa guilty. I'm not taking Kadokawa's side though, I just think it's best to get the facts first. I doubt we'll ever get the facts though...
Japanese corporations are notorious for back stabbing employees for petty reasons and this certainly looks like one of those cases. So far Kadokawa has fired the director, fired the production company, and made the actresses apologize for them. Also the Kadokawa press release assured fans that the mission to learn about animals would continue which sounds like it was written by a manager who has never even watched the show.
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WANNFH



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1697
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:25 pm Reply with quote
Moroboshi-san wrote:
WANNFH wrote:
So basically, all of their doing for now is just trying to have the IP all over by themselves..

They don't "try to have it".

Kadokawa has the IP. Period. They can do whatever they want with it.

As an anime director Tatsuki better understand he should do what IP-owners want, otherwise his career in this industry is very short.
Of course they can, but what they exactly did for now is the back-stab. In the April Yoshizaki Mine stated that they gave Tatsuki absolute control over the series, when the franchise was close to dead, and he did it gold despite all of the hardships. But apparently, after it's sudden profits, Kadokawa doesn't wanted to just make the money from IP, but completely being at control for all of it - and it's resulting in conflict with the director and studio that also got their place in the series production committee. Well, now they got what's going on.

Quote:
What I wonder is what Kadokawa hopes to achieve bringing this whole mess?

Nothing - they didn't even think about THAT level of fans rage in the first place, when they're making all of it.
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ximpalullaorg



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 396
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:34 pm Reply with quote
Chrono1000 wrote:
Japanese corporations are notorious for back stabbing employees for petty reasons and this certainly looks like one of those cases.


Exactly. There are also notable cases in which project crashed and burnt due to this and feuds inside the committees (recent example: Shingeki no Bahamut Manaria Friends which got cancelled a month before airing), the difference is that they didn't gain the same popularity as KF.

The real reasons may be never known, but it's telling when the PR by Kadokawa manages to "enrage" the sponsors which rertort saying the company is lying (in a polite way).
Also if you check the VA stream, while I can't say they were "forced" it's clear how they're feeling when they're talking.
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Moroboshi-san



Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 174
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:38 pm Reply with quote
Blanchimont wrote:
...more like if they asked Miyazaki to step aside for Castle in the Sky after him directing Nausicaa a few years earlier...


Miyazaki has always been very good at twisting IP-holders arm and getting his vision through but still keeping them at his side (sometimes barely though). Basic skill for any anime director. Of course in this particular case the fact that both were based on Miyazaki own stories made the twisting probably much easier.

WANNFH wrote:
...they gave Tatsuki absolute control over the series, when the franchise was close to dead, and he did it gold despite all of the hardships. But apparently, after it's sudden profits, Kadokawa doesn't wanted to just make the money from IP, but completely being at control for all of it...


Of course. Nothing new here and any anime director should understand that. I believe the current situation is mostly because of Tatsuki inexperience in the business. He should learn fast.
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aereus



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 574
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:38 pm Reply with quote
What you have to understand is the franchise was dying when given to Tatsuki. That's the whole reason he was given full creative control for season one. It was also his idea to make it all ages and educational despite the latenight time slot. He turned lead into gold on a franchise that was winding down to close after the anime.

It then became a runaway hit based on Tatsukis setting and approach. Now they wanted to reboot the franchise and force Tatsuki to give up creative control and merely animate what they wanted how they wanted it. Predictably the fandom has revolted becausd they're invested in Tatsukis vision of the franchise not just KF in general.

Kadokawa killed the golden goose for petty reasons even if it was within their rights as IP owners, it was the totally wrong thing to do financially. They've poisoned most of their customers against them now.
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relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 4125
Location: Northern Virginia
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:48 pm Reply with quote
Parse Error wrote:
Quote:
Viewers criticized the apology as a ploy by Kadokawa to pull out the "voice actress guard" to deflect blame off of the company.

It also doesn't help that the JRA and Nissin are none too happy about being indirectly dragged into this because it unsurprisingly turns out they did get clearance from Kadokawa first.


I was pretty curious about that. That helps clarify a lot, actually. I could understand Kadokawa's stance more if they truly didn't approve this stuff, as well as that of Nissin and JRA, but if they gave the go ahead, that just makes Kadokawa look even worse.
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encrypted12345



Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 718
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:03 pm Reply with quote
aereus wrote:
They've poisoned most of their customers against them now.


One thing I feel like pointing out is that I don't think many people hurt by this incident have the guts to boycott Kadokawa outright. They hold the IP for many beloved franchises among the anime, manga, and light novel mediums. (I'll mention Index since that is getting a season 3 soon, but they have way more than that.) I don't think enough people are resentful enough that they want those IPs to go down with it.

That said, if I am proven wrong, I'd be impressed by the overpowering power of the consumer.

Amusingly, wikipedia says that Kadokawa's president and CEO is Satan. That clearly explains everything. http://archive.fo/1iWIB
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aereus



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 574
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:09 pm Reply with quote
I meant KF specifically. They lost way more than they could have potentially gained by this stunt.
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rinrinsama



Joined: 21 Jan 2017
Posts: 24
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:11 pm Reply with quote


this is resumed, what happens until now,

also a supposed kadokawa insider leaks in futaba that the reason of the dismiss was a diference between Yaoyorozu and kadokawa about the S2 and kadokawa, as IP holder, kick out Yaoyorozu of the project, this drag out tatsuki and several VAs. of course, this cannot be probed
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encrypted12345



Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 718
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:12 pm Reply with quote
aereus wrote:
I meant KF specifically. They lost way more than they could have potentially gained by this stunt.


True. Kemono Friends ended as explosively as it started. It's poetic really.

Any money lost just feels like a slap to the wrist on a company as huge as Kadokawa, but we'll see. I don't think they'll learn anything from this incident.
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WANNFH



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1697
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:21 pm Reply with quote
Kougeru wrote:
That's honestly just a theory. FACTS a provable. Can you prove, 100%, that that's their motives? Again, I'm not saying I don't believe you to be wrong, I just don't see it was a concrete fact. I thought they already had full control over it to begin with.
Well, there isn't big facts except some really disputed things that comes from not really proven sources - but from all of the information it all looks exactly like that.
A) Kadokawa got control over the IP, but not the control over the series - they gave it to Tatsuki from the beginning: it was clearly stated by Yoshizaki Mine's tweet, dated by April. Yoshizaki, by the way, working with Kadokawa.
B) Kadokawa statement about Yaoyorozu created the works "without contacting or sharing information through the appropriate channels" is the cover-up for the real reasons, and their statement about it is a lie - this was refuted by JRA and Nissin.
C) Kadokawa statement about that they can't communicate with the studio past August and the studio withdrew, is also the cover-up lie - the collab between Yaoyorozu and Nissin was done in September, and because of the previous stated claim of Nissin that Kadokawa know all about it, it's clearly to say who is lying right there.

Quote:
I'm not even sure if he made it "gold" in the first place....it might've ended up that way with a different director.

Well, you can't claim that as fact, because we got only one guy who made sleeper hit despite being 3DCGI, with the rock bottom budget, lack of staff, novice team of voice actors and all other against the probabilities things - and he wasn't just the director, he was also the main script writer of the TV series, and got the all jobs on it from doing the character models, to making storyboards and opening. Yeah, basically half of the work... and they kicked not just him, but all of the studio that made anime successful.

Quote:
The existence of the anime itself might've been enough for it to be popular. It wasn't really a good anime by any means.

Eh... You aren't know about it much, do you? The existence of series doesn't make anything to franchise, because it's already dead on this point - the game was closed before the broadcast because it had poorly recognition even with the collabs, and the manga serialization was also on the ending point when anime started. It's was just the anime content by itself did all of this success, to the point that it completely revived the franchise.

And yeah, claiming that the anime "wasn't very good" is your own opinion, that you can say... but the guys who's now fighting for the director and making really BIG uproar about his removal (all of events about this go to worldwide Twitter trends, and even japanese media and TV all talking about this scandal for two days) doesn't think the series "wasn't very good". And the japanese fans aren't even care that much about staff change from any series - so when it comes to the level of national level uproar about the removal of just one man, this all is the big, big evidence of the series popularity in the first place.
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encrypted12345



Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 718
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:27 pm Reply with quote
WANNFH wrote:

And yeah, claiming that the anime "wasn't very good" is your own opinion, that you can say... but the guys who's now fighting for the director and making really BIG uproar about his removal (all of events about this go to worldwide Twitter trends, and even japanese media and TV all talking about this scandal for two days) doesn't think the series "wasn't very good". And the japanese fans aren't even care that much about staff change from any series - so when it comes to the level of national level uproar about the removal of just one man, this all is the big, big evidence of the series popularity in the first place.


As further proof of this, compare the Japanese reaction of Kemono Friends changing directors and studio compared to One Punch Man changing directors and studio. No one cares about the latter at all, compared to the former at least.
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Pierrot.





PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:29 pm Reply with quote
All of these unfortunate events happening with KF, makes me glad about how Osomatsu-san is being handled.
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