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edmg7 wrote:

This mindset is pretty much why I don't get all the frustration and bitterness of some fans in both this comment section and that of the original article. With all the salt towards not getting everything they want I could swear the anime community was composed of girls named Veruca.

I think that comes from two different factors. The first is that anime has been a major source of piracy, in which people could watch their anime for free and near everything was available, so they really COULD just watch anything they wanted whenever they wanted. This spoils those viewers. The second is that a lot of current anime fans got started when they were kids, when they didn't yet understand the idea of compromise, though I think this reason is a lot weaker than the first, as there are many other things people had been into since they were children and fully understand they can't have everything all the time (video games being a major example). Of course, I still get plenty of YouTube comments asking me when a Pokémon game is going to appear on the PS4 and such.

There might possibly be a third explanation: A hybrid rebel/hipster mindset in which the official streaming services have become The Man/The Hegemony. I do suspect at least a few people here (and elsewhere) intentionally avoid legitimate sources to feel like they're in some cool underground in-group and will move the goalposts as necessary to justify why they'll never pay for a streaming service, though they're definitely a distinct minority.

leafy sea dragon wrote:

There might possibly be a third explanation: A hybrid rebel/hipster mindset in which the official streaming services have become The Man/The Hegemony. I do suspect at least a few people here (and elsewhere) intentionally avoid legitimate sources to feel like they're in some cool underground in-group and will move the goalposts as necessary to justify why they'll never pay for a streaming service, though they're definitely a distinct minority.

They don't seem like a minority over on MAL.

yuna49 wrote:

leafy sea dragon wrote:

There might possibly be a third explanation: A hybrid rebel/hipster mindset in which the official streaming services have become The Man/The Hegemony. I do suspect at least a few people here (and elsewhere) intentionally avoid legitimate sources to feel like they're in some cool underground in-group and will move the goalposts as necessary to justify why they'll never pay for a streaming service, though they're definitely a distinct minority.

They don't seem like a minority over on MAL.

I don't really like MAL, they tend to have herd mentality and it mainly becomes who has watched the most anime.

I wish I could afford more streaming options but I can't so I just stick to Netflix, since it's got *something* in all 4 categories of entertainment I need, anime, broadcast TV shows*, movies**, and original Netflix productions.

If I subscribed to something like Crunchyroll (which I watch, but only on the free side), I'd get a lot more of the first category, but nothing of interest to me in the other 3 categories.

* I do get some extra "On Demand" streaming included with my Bell Fibe subscription, though it's mostly just the most recent few episodes of broadcast TV shows, although the Kids Suite has some interesting things like the complete Garfield and Friends.

** The selection of movies on Netflix is actually pretty disappointing, especially when it comes to classic films. I think I'm one of the few people still burning a candle for Blockbuster Video; maybe they weren't the best place to rent movies from, but at least if I wanted to watch a reasonably popular classic movie, they'd quite likely have it in stock.

leafy sea dragon wrote:

mangamuscle wrote:

What Justin forgets to mention is that broadcast TV has always worked on a "free as in beer" system, where publicity paid for TV commercials that produced revenue. I do not think people would want broadcast to ask for a fee to watch their channels (before you say it can't be done, In my country one of the big broadcast networks tried it until the government shut them down)

This is already how it works in the UK, where every household pays a tax (they call it a "fee," but I don't really see any difference between it and a tax considering it's required and it goes to the government) in order to watch television. And in the US, you have stuff like the HBO package and the Disney Channel package that cost extra.

You are comparing apples and oranges. The UK TV tax is by the government and everybody pays for it*, what we are talking here is about privately owned companies looking for ways to make you pay even more for viewing media. Any cable package beyond basic cost extra and can't be subscribed without paying for basic first. The exact same double paywall as anime strike.

Quote:

The big thing, I'd say, is that people are a lot more willing to pay for something if they've had to pay for it for as long as they can remember. When someone gets something without having to pay for it, they become used to that and it feels unpleasant if they have to pay for it.

Rightly so. I bet you and many other people would make a fuse if suddenly at the supermarket if they suddenly charged you extra for the plastic bags and no matter how much they told you it is normal ... in japan, you will probably search for another supermarket asap.

As a side note, atm broadcast tv uses the outdated mpeg2 compression algorithm to broadcast HDTV, if they used mpeg4 (or better still, HEVC) they could place more channels in the bandwidth they have for one. That would need a new external tuner, which if it had DRM built-in could be used to sell premium channels in over the air broadcasts. Seems unlikely, but as I said before, here TV Azteca tried (and the goverment shot them down) but it is a cautionary tale of what might happen if major tv networks went with the netflix/amazon prime rationale "if they want to see our content, make them pay for it" and on top of that they would probably still insert commercials like hulu.

*In this time and era someone that is not "watching or recording live television transmissions as they are being broadcast (terrestrial, satellite, cable, or internet)" at least once a month is a deviant of the highest order.

TheAncientOne wrote:

Forbes reported in June of this year that 64% of US households have Prime, which means that "double paywall" exists only for a bit over one third.

I doubt you (or anyone in this forum) have the statistic, but I suspect that most of the so called anime fandom falls into that 36%

the only streaming services i really use are the free ones like crackle, tubi tv etc. other than that I still use fan sub sites

mangamuscle wrote:

I doubt you (or anyone in this forum) have the statistic, but I suspect that most of the so called anime fandom falls into that 36%

I don't use Amazon in general, let alone Prime. Assuming everyone has a Prime service seems like it only makes sense if their aim is the 'normal people' audience rather than anime fans

Wrangler wrote:

This is almost depressing...anime just payfor Advertisement and its technically a commercial for the most part.

Anime has always been essentially a commercial. I gurantee Nintendo doesn't care if you pirate the fansubs of Pocket Monsters: Sun and Moon instead of watching the official dub, so long as you still buy the toys, games, and merch. Most mainstream stuff is even more pointless, unless you're going to import the Japanese snack and drink products that sponsored your episode of One Piece. Actually, now that I think of it, streaming sites actually cut out the adverts and sponsorships in their airing, which means it's actually less benefitial to those companies to watch the streams instead of fansubs or raws which leave those advertisements in. Laughing

That's why you get those 10 seconds of a stillshot after the theme song since that's where the sponsors usually show up.

Multiple streaming services aren't that bad as long as each has a substantial amount of anime. The problem is with too many services with just one or two good shows. And the trend seems to be not only with anime but with streaming TV. CBS has it's own service, Disney has or will have it's own service, and there's Netflix, Hulu, etc. And each one is trying to be PPV. For many different services, even if it's only five or ten dollars each, it adds up. People aren't leaving cable just to spend more money.

mangamuscle wrote:

Rightly so. I bet you and many other people would make a fuse if suddenly at the supermarket if they suddenly charged you extra for the plastic bags and no matter how much they told you it is normal ... in japan, you will probably search for another supermarket asap.

Uh, what countries' stores don't charge for plastic bags? At least here in Scandinavia, or at least Finland and Sweden, they do cost. If you meant those small bags for fruits etc in the produce section in supermarkets, sure, those are free...

Blanchimont wrote:

mangamuscle wrote:

Rightly so. I bet you and many other people would make a fuse if suddenly at the supermarket if they suddenly charged you extra for the plastic bags and no matter how much they told you it is normal ... in japan, you will probably search for another supermarket asap.

Uh, what countries' stores don't charge for plastic bags? At least here in Scandinavia, or at least Finland and Sweden, they do cost. If you meant those small bags for fruits etc in the produce section in supermarkets, sure, those are free...

In the US, the "hippie" towns like San Francisco and MA college-towns only just now enacted a green ban on plastic grocery bags, starting this year (based on Scandinavia's idea)--
If you go to the supermarket, you either bring your cloth tote, you get them in paper, or you buy a biodegradable plastic bag for an extra ten to fifteen cents.

It's an option they're encouraging you to live without, unlike cable television, which is not only the place you can see exclusive shows, but often the only way of getting TV reception in remote or mountainous areas.

EricJ2 wrote:

If you go to the supermarket, you either bring your cloth tote, you get them in paper, or you buy a biodegradable plastic bag for an extra ten to fifteen cents

The thing is, at least where I live, we have been getting those biodegradable plastic bags from supermarkets for years. How do I know, I have seen those damn bags degrade! So those hippie supermarkets are like "yeah, we are so green, more power to the planet" when the simple truth is that they are profiting from the whole thing, ten or fifteen cents might not seem like much until you multiple it for all the bags used in one supermarket every day for a year.

Same pattern happening in anime streaming with AS, "mhhh, let's see how to extract more revenue from this cord cutting millennials".

Tenchi wrote:

The selection of movies on Netflix is actually pretty disappointing, especially when it comes to classic films.

For classic and foreign films, there is filmstruck.com, an offshoot of Turner Classic Movies. They bought the license to The Criterion Collection which Hulu used to own whereupon I dropped Hulu (which I rarely used) and started a FilmStruck subscription. Their catalog is very diverse and extends from the turn of the twentieth century up through the perhaps a decade ago. Here's a compilation of their titles through November, 2016: https://letterboxd.com/fookthis/list/all-the-movies-available-on-filmstruck/

mangamuscle wrote:

I doubt you (or anyone in this forum) have the statistic, but I suspect that most of the so called anime fandom falls into that 36%

While I doubt anime fandom matches exactly to the "normal" distribution, I doubt it is that badly skewed. I suspect it is more of a case of anime fans that have Amazon Prime seeing little benefit to getting involved in the conversation.

For that matter, those of us that are active in the forum are probably the minority. A lot of people watch anime and rarely or never post in the forums. I've even encountered a surprising number that don't seem to have even visited a news site like ANN.

It is known that Amazon Prime memberships skew toward higher incomes:
https://www.recode.net/2017/6/8/15759354/amazon-prime-low-income-discount-piper-jaffray-demographics

Even with the lowest income bracket listed ($21K-$41K per household), however, there was still 52% penetration.

Blanchimont wrote:

Uh, what countries' stores don't charge for plastic bags?

I have yet to live anywhere here in the mid-south US that charges for plastic bags.

I should note that the stores I shop at have also had plastic bag recycling bins for many years.

TheAncientOne wrote:

Even with the lowest income bracket listed ($21K-$41K per household), however, there was still 52% penetration.

That is my whole point, anime fandom tends to be young, you and me cling to the extremes of the curve bell of said fandoim. Young people tend to have lower income (or no income at all!) so probably most of it shadows the bracket you mention.

So from my point of view is almost half of anime fandom that does not have prime and therefore, can rightfully complain about the double pay wall. That is a lot of people.

mangamuscle wrote:

That is my whole point, anime fandom tends to be young, you and me cling to the extremes of the curve bell of said fandoim. Young people tend to have lower income (or no income at all!) so probably most of it shadows the bracket you mention.

There's a good chunk of the audience in the 12-17 year-old bracket that may be living in those Prime households. Also it's pretty simple to share a Prime subscription across family members living apart. My 25-yo daughter lives in NYC, while I live in Boston. We both use the same account. So I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that all those young people you speak of have no access to Prime whatsoever.

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