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Am I the only one bothered by the general "reviewing template" of most MAL reviewers?


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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23669
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:12 pm Reply with quote
@ louis6578 - I'm not sure why you care about this issue. MAL offers a certain format for users who want to rate/comment on anime they have seen. They are free to use it or not. You are free to read it or not. Who cares? If you don't like the format, don't use it. If you don't find other people using it to be useful for you, don't read it. Personally, I'm okay with anything that gets people discussing anime beyond, "yeah, I liked it" or "that sucked."
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Aylinn



Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 1684
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:43 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Second, and more importantly, how do you rate "characters?" Is it by how much you liked them? How well they were written? How realistic they were? If I thought everyone in Monster was well-written, but I also thought Eva was annoying, should that bring my score down even though she's intentionally written as a petty, vindictive person?

I suppose you just analyse it like anything else. I mean think and present your arguments. For example, Eve, as far as I remember, was well-written. She was a spoiled daughter. It was shown that she was spoiled and she behaved as you would expect from a spoiled person, wanting to have everything and believing that everything and everyone is there to please her. She eventually changes, but it is a long process that takes years/months, which feels plausible.

In other words, I would not give Eve the title of the most likeable character, but I think she is well-written.

As far as I remember for me an example of badly done character would be: Ron. In the books he has moments where he behaves like a douchebag and then gets his redemption arcs. However, his last redemption arc, where he gets to destroy the locket and sees the vision of Harry and Hermione kissing each other as the locket makes use of deepest fears, makes him look like a douchebag, because let us think about the situation a little bit. Voldemort and death eaters are free and Ron’s family, as they are considered traitors, is in danger, not to mention his best friends who could get killed if they were caught. In this situation Ron’s deepest fear is that Harry and Hermione can get together, kiss and maybe bang each other…-_-

Quote:
Going back to characters, movies often don't leave you with enough time to get to know the characters well. I can't remember the names of most characters from anime original movies when I'm not actively watching them. Should Your Name be given a way lower score because the characters were standard, despite them working very well for the story that was told?

As for this, you can just judge how well characters are done for what (little) time they have, so if they work well for the story, then that’s good. If they do splendidly, then that’s excellent. If they do badly, then that’s bad.

Quote:
Third, what if a show doesn't have an ongoing plot? Should a slice-of-life show like Welcome to the NHK be given a failing grade in plot because it doesn't really have one?

I think you just have to think logically about it. If the point of the story is not action like in romance or slice-of-life series then of course it is of secondary importance and you do not expect a lot of action scenes. How well characters and their interactions are done is more important in these cases than the plot.

I suppose the most important thing is to realize what is the point of the story.

Is it to entertain you by showing you a lot of thrilling action scenes? Then you judge how good the plot it is and if the action scenes are interesting, etc.

Is it to entertain you by showing you a romantic relationship between two characters? Then you judge how well interactions and characters are done.

Besides, you can also simply tell it that you are giving anime X a good great, despite it having no or very little plot, because you think that characters and their interactions are interesting/well-written and provide arguments for it and it is far more important in a slice of life series than a plot. Moreover, a slice of life story that has no or very little plot is something that you expect just like you expect that a baked chicken will be a good dinner, but not a good dessert and trashing a slice of life series for plot would be like trashing a baked chicken for not being a good dessert when it was never supposed to be a good action-oriented story/dessert.
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Ryo Hazuki



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:16 am Reply with quote
I don't think reviews or even overall grades are unnecessary but I don't think it's helpful to grade each category separately. Outstanding character designs or animation can help a movie or a series but I think it's how it all comes together that matters.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:17 pm Reply with quote
Ryo Hazuki wrote:
I don't think reviews or even overall grades are unnecessary but I don't think it's helpful to grade each category separately. Outstanding character designs or animation can help a movie or a series but I think it's how it all comes together that matters.

In general I agree. However, anime (or manga or books or whatever) are definitely not all created equal even at the same quality level.

For instance, I rate the anime movie The Wings of Honneamise as a Masterpiece and give it an A grade overall, but its musical score is (to put it nicely) underwhelming - definitely well under the quality level of the rest of the project. Individual grades for different categories allow that to be pointed out without having to completely read through a review.
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Spawn29



Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:28 pm Reply with quote
I think characters and story can be view as two different things. Sometimes you can have a well told story even if the characters are not the best if you ask me.
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Key
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:51 pm Reply with quote
Spawn29 wrote:
I think characters and story can be view as two different things. Sometimes you can have a well told story even if the characters are not the best if you ask me.

I'd also agree with that. Great characters can compensate for a run-of-the-mil story and vice versa. In fact, I could probably come up with any number of cases where there is a decided difference in merit between the two.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:28 pm Reply with quote
Spawn29 wrote:
I think characters and story can be view as two different things. Sometimes you can have a well told story even if the characters are not the best if you ask me.

The opposite applies as well. Sometimes you can have a bad plot but truly interesting characters that shine despite the dull story telling. I see that a lot in movies now a days. Characters that interested me and had lots of promise but due to bad directing or a weak plot they don't get enough of a chance to really shine through as well as they could've. You leave wanting more because you know the characters could give you more if given the proper chance.
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louis6578



Joined: 31 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:03 pm Reply with quote
Well, while story can be good without characters being particularly good, they almost always go hand in hand. ALMOST always. I think Durarara's plot is incredibly dumb, but its characters are great. However, usually one (characters) can easily make up for another (plot). They're not equally important.

Here's what I think. If your reviewing score has an "enjoyment" category, you've failed already. What's more, the more points of divergence that your review has, the worse it is. I already said that how enjoyable the anime is should be the only important thing, so if that's just a small piece in your review, you've failed entirely.
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Redbeard 101
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:09 pm Reply with quote
louis6578 wrote:

Here's what I think. If your reviewing score has an "enjoyment" category, you've failed already. What's more, the more points of divergence that your review has, the worse it is. I already said that how enjoyable the anime is should be the only important thing, so if that's just a small piece in your review, you've failed entirely.

So basically if someone doesn't review it the way you want and dares to think of anything else other than personal enjoyment for whatever reason it's a failure. Can't have people reviewing things differently basically. Got it. Rolling Eyes On that ridiculous note I'll leave you to it.
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Errinundra
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:39 am Reply with quote
That's not how I read what louis6578 is saying. I think what they mean is as follows.

A good review score ought to reflect the enjoyment** the reviewer obtained from the anime. If their overall score differs from the score they would give for the enjoyment alone then it isn't a fair dinkum review.

louis6578 isn't arguing that their own criteria ought to be everyone else's. They are arguing that the standard MAL format prevents people from giving a legitimate review of how they (the other people, not louis6578) really felt about the anime.

It boils down to the old subjective/objective debate. I fall on louis6578's side of the argument. In the end, the decision on how to measure the worth of an anime is made by the reviewer. What I hope to read is an honest account of how the reviewer felt and reacted to it. The MAL system impedes that.

Note
** I use the term enjoyment in the broadest possible sense. I can't say I "enjoyed" Barefoot Gen, but I most certainly appreciated it.
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louis6578



Joined: 31 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:14 am Reply with quote
I appreciate having someone come to my defense. On that note, can we just agree that there's no such thing as an objectively good/bad anime? Sure, the general consensus says that Garzey's Wing is bad, but if you found it entertaining, doesn't that mean that it should be considered good in your mind because it's enjoyable? Similarly, if you found Cowboy Bebop to be boring, then aren't you allowed to consider it bad?

I know a lot of people who don't like Ghost in the Shell or Future Diary, but feel like they have to rate them a 6 to an 8 just because if they don't, most people will assume that their tastes aren't good. That's stupid and petty. Just be honest with how you feel about a show. The point of a rating system on MAL or ANN isn't to tell us how good a show is, but to tell us how worthwhile it was to you. If I'm curious about someone's tastes, I can look at their MAL. I appreciated that Jacob Chapman's ANN list had Black Lagoon as a So-So despite the fact that I loved it, because it meant that he was being honest.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:34 am Reply with quote
I think part of the solution is to stop making assumptions about the sincerity of other people's ratings/opinions. You have no way of knowing if a poster is being genuine or feels "pressured" to inflate (or deflate as the case may be) their ratings because of how a certain title is deemed by the hivemind. I'm sure it happens, but since there is absolutely no way of knowing one way or the other, there doesn't seem much point worrying about it.
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Spawn29



Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:05 pm Reply with quote
louis6578 wrote:

I know a lot of people who don't like Ghost in the Shell or Future Diary, but feel like they have to rate them a 6 to an 8 just because if they don't, most people will assume that their tastes aren't good. That's stupid and petty. Just be honest with how you feel about a show.


I hate it when people will create fake list of movies, anime, video games, etc just to be socially like by someone. People will put movies like The Godfather and Citizen Kane on their top 10 because they are high rated classics and people will think that have good taste in movies when they never seen those two movies.

For me, I like it when people have a list of favorites that are different from everyone else. I personally put the 2005 Guyver anime on my Top 10 favorite series because I love the characters and action. It's not a series that you would see on someone's top 10, but I still love it today even if people think it's not perfect.
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louis6578



Joined: 31 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:51 pm Reply with quote
Generic top 10 anime list in no particular order

Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell (1995), Fullmetal Alchemist (or Brotherhood), A Ghibli movie, A Gen Urobuchi anime (usually Psycho Pass, but Madoka is not an uncommon thing to find most people saying they liked), One 2deep4u anime (Serial Experiments Lain or Wolf Children are the most common ones), at least one anime that was on Toonami or Adult Swim in the 2000's that isn't Cowboy Bebop or FMA, at least one anime that isn't completely mainstream and that the individual wants to push as a sort of underground hit, the individual's gateway anime, and one long-running anime of the individual's demographic growing up (either a big name Shoujo or a big name shounen).

Usually people who make lists like that hadn't seen as much anime as the rest of us.
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Alan45
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Joined: 25 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:00 pm Reply with quote
@louis6578

Sorry, but there is no special qualifications or test to be an anime fan. Anyone who has seen two or more shows qualifies. (If you have only seen one show you are a fan of that and may or may not become an anime fan) As far as "generic top 10 lists are concerned, clichés are recognized because of the frequency that they represent real life. There is no requirement that people be unique and unlike everyone else. If a person annotates his top ten list, I'd take them at face value. If it is un-annotated, it is just a list and can be safely ignored.

From your posts in this thread, I'd say you worry too much about other people's opinions. Since you have already said that your main criteria is your enjoyment, why would anyone else's opinion on a show matter? If you are interacting with someone, I can understand looking at their list of anime watched and their evaluations. However, you shouldn't put too much stock in it. Yes, some people post honestly and some post to show off. As Blood- noted above, there is no way to tell the difference. I suspect that even the honest ones to some extent are effected by the way they want to be perceived and the posers are revealing more information than they realize. It doesn't matter really. Their posts or conversation will ultimately tell you more than a static list.

And to save you the trouble of looking, I've never posted a top ten list of anything anywhere. Also my list of anime watched here at ANN is incomplete and out of date, but you can look if you want. I have trouble caring enough to update it.
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