Forum - View topicAnswerman - How Is Christianity Regarded In Japan?
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varmintx
 Posts: 1200 Location: Covington, KY |
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I could have sworn this article was about Christianity in Japan.
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Olderthandirt2
Posts: 6 |
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Sigh. It was.
But I do respect the energy level and the quality of the posts and the mostly respectful nature of the commentors. Perhaps this could split into two postings? |
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Beatdigga
 Posts: 4371 Location: New York |
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I think on the main subject all that was said for now was said. We could gush about The Handmaidens Tale some more, or just let the topic end for now.
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Velshtein
 Posts: 72 |
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You clearly do not understand what a loaded question is and why it's disingenuous. Perhaps because if you asked a more honest question, the answer would be unappealing to you.
The entire point of a government system is literally about putting an individual's or group's moral views into law. Do you vote? If so, you are "imposing" your views onto others who want society to be run differently. In a democracy, people vote on something, and whatever gets the highest votes will be enforced. Put another way, Christians have the legal right to "impose" their views, just like anybody else does. If that is unappealing to you, then you have the option to live in isolation off the grid in an anarchist wonderland where nobody will ever "impose" anything on you.
It's understandable to not like another person's worldview being "imposed" on you. But that's an inevitable reality of living in a society/civilization of any kind. Some individual's or group's worldview is going to be enforced on everyone. People have a wide variety of beliefs on everything under the sun, especially in the U.S.. By choosing to live in a society, you are compromising on at least some of your beliefs for the sake of order and safety that living in a society provides. That's just the way it is. Which is why I've been saying that if such a set up is unacceptable to you, then you have the option to live off the grid apart from society. An orderly and civil society in which everyone with contradictory worldviews is able to live them out 100% is just not possible. Really, the entire theory behind Western governments in general (and the U.S. in particular) is about compromise with and tolerance for beliefs you might not fully agree with for the sake of peace.
Jdnation already mentioned the risks to a Christian's career if he/she dares to voice any beliefs they hold that run contrary to current moral trends. On a side note, he also does a fine job of summarizing the history behind the divisions in the West today. |
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Velshtein
Posts: 72 |
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You haven't been paying attention to the changing culture around you then. I'm interested to hear why you think Christianity is not largely seen in a negative light in the news media, Hollywood, pop culture, and academia.
Being a "majority" doesn't mean much when most so called Christians are nominal Christians only and refuse to actually stand up for the faith, including and especially our politicians. Politicians will publicly affirm whatever beliefs necessary to sway the crowd in front of them only to abandon those beliefs later when it is convenient. That's how politics has always been. "News network and media empire". What? If you're referring to Fox News, that hardly constitutes a "news network and media empire". And how "Christian" it even is is debatable. Anyway, I'm done with this debate for now. I've made all the points I wanted to make. At the end of the day, Christians aren't doing anything differently than any other individual or group with a worldview living in the U.S.. |
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DerekL1963
 Subscriber Posts: 1113 Location: Puget Sound |
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Oh, I understand fully what a loaded question is - and also what it isn't. I also understand the question above is fully honest. But, as I said, it's a question Christians won't answer because they can't - but they will spend endless time trying dismiss the questioner.
You're absolutely correct. But it's also a complete irrelevancy as the system of government isn't the topic. The topic is the behavior of individuals and the repeated lie that Christians in the US are oppressed. If you have an example of a Christian being oppressed because of their religion, bring it forth. But be advised that being required to conform the law of the land, one applied equally to all, is not oppression.
No other group is trying to deny civil rights to others by fighting against marriage equality. No other group is openly espousing the desire to deny services to someone based on their sexuality. No other group is attempting to deny medical procedures or treatment to others because their religion forbids it. Etc... etc... Christians are most certainly doing things differently than other groups. But you probably won't read this as you've waived the white flag, declared victory, and retired from the battlefield. |
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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Welcome the the '60s! The exact same thing happened in the USA back then, hollywood was also believed to be the breeding ground of homeland hating anti-christians and violence erupted due to the divide between the old and the new. It has nothing to do with the decline of Christian values and that is from what Bill Maher says, he would be gloating if the USA was really on a trend towards atheism. |
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EricJ2
 Posts: 4016 |
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Also happened during the 80's and 00's--Atheists became more Bill-Maher vocal (and thought they had a chance of "merchandising" themselves into a credible mainstream minority) during the GWBush era, when the national mood of most Americans was frustration with a president they couldn't do anything about, and Bush was openly courting the conservative-religious vote. Fundamentalist sects tried to establish their niche by promoting that the word "Christian" only = "Conservative fundamentalist", and those less connected with their faiths, like college students or lapsed adults, bought it-- When you see atheists on their soapbox, it's usually less about the plausibility of God's existence, as openly social paranoia that government is trying to "push religion down society's throats", or that "religion turns normal people into Iraqi terrorists", which comes more out of political frustration than theological. Some atheists who had friends drag them to the local hometown church on the corner claimed they were surprised it was only promoting messages of charity and community, and not about burning books or electing political candidates, as they feared it might be from the TV news. |
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Snomaster1
Subscriber Posts: 2796 |
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Well,this has been very lively. I hope no one minds me sharing my views. Yes,Japan has a Christian minority and it's interesting to hear about them. And,to be frank,anime's portrayals of Christianity can verge into the bizarre at times,but still,it is interesting to see them. And like how the U.S. is portrayed in anime,the portrayals of Christianity can differ wildly. From the friendly ("One Pound Gospel,")to the strange ("Chrono Crusade,")to the outright vicious ("Ninja Resurrection,""Sins of the Sisters,")and insane ("Angel Sanctuary.") Yes,sir. The way Christianity's portrayed in anime can be a very interesting thing to see.
I've also read quite a bit here about how Christianity's been treated in our own popular culture. While not being particularly religious myself,there is a case to be made that yes,places like the news media,Hollywood,and other parts of the culture seem to relish using Christians as punching bags. And,that's been criticized for years. In 1992,film critic Michael Medved wrote a book called "Hollywood vs. America,"a book that basically echoes the criticisms I've read here. And,it's not just Medved. Scores of others have have said similar things for years now,and recently this sort of thing has come back to bite the arbiters of our culture. It's no surprise that movie attendance has gone down and so has the decline in television ratings. It not only has to do with the decline in the quality of the films and television that Hollywood and the rest of the media has produced but also the constant mockery and attacks on Christianity that has helped cause this state of affairs. It's also one of the possible reasons that Donald Trump got elected president. You know the old saying "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction." Well,among Christians in this country,that reaction has been a long time coming and not a very surprising one,either. I've also noticed that Bill Maher's been mentioned here. I have no idea how he feels about anime,or if he knows it exists. If he did know about it,he'd probably like "Sins of the Sisters." That show would probably jibe with how he feels about Christianity and about how he feels about religion in general. Personally,I think he's kind of a jerk. You can have no religion and be respectful to those who do. I'd wish he'd learn not to be so obnoxious. Last edited by Snomaster1 on Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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I will have to disagree with the notion that said decline has anything to do with the production of stories that some people feel are bashing their religion, if that were true then anime streaming would also be in a (even greater) decline, which is not. Broadcast TV has too many competition with cable and now streaming. Movies are in the same dilemma video game arcades were a decade ago (which they lost), now people can see movies in their homes, they tried to change the trend with 3D and then with 4D and forgot to make good movies, which is the main reason the decline in ticket sales, most of the new films that were supposed to make billions sucked and blowed at the same time. |
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Sakagami Tomoyo
 Posts: 940 Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia |
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So... if you're not happy with someone else's morality being imposed on you and you're not willing to put up and shut up, you should go somewhere else? But it's not the Christians who should do that when it's something they don't like? In any case, this kind of divisive "take the way it is or F off" attitude is problematic, and probably has a lot to do with the unpleasant state of society. Talking though things and reaching a reasonable compromise is a better way forward. Not perfect; there will never be 100% agreement, but better.
He mentioned they exist, but didn't mention what they are. "Certain beliefs." No mention of what these "certain beliefs" are. Now I have an idea of what they might be, but rather than putting words in anyone's mouth, I am asking. Also, just putting this out there, perhaps "current moral trends" are current moral trends because the previous moral trend was unjust. An example might be some kind of klan with their "belief" that races should be kept separate not agreeing with "current moral trends" about integration. |
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nargun
Posts: 925 |
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Ah, no! It's better than that: + it's OK to not hire gay people, to discriminate etc + but it's not OK to not hire "christians", etc + because plurality! I mean, even on the face of it the argument is self-defeating. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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I'm not saying they don't exist, but I don't know anyone that moves to CA or WA or NY and complains about how liberal/progressive it is. I know PLENTY of people that move to Texas or even the deep south and complain about how conservative or "backwards" it is. The problem with returning the argument back is that (as you previously noted) Christians are USUALLY the MAJORITY in a given area, so why should they "leave" if they don't like something? (ie. it's not going to be "better" in another area) The problem with the moral discussions is generally speaking it's a gray area of who gets "priority". It's simple to say "lynching is wrong" (ie. to take a page from Republican talking points, "why do you need a law for 'hate crimes' when KILLING someone is already illegal") But it gets more murky once you start arguing about feelings. Can people say the N word? Can people SAY they don't like one group or another? The old standard is that "your right to swing your arm ends at my face", but how much am I to blame if you commit suicide and I was mean to you? To go less "political" is alright for me to call someone ugly? Where is our society if I'm NOT allowed to say that? It's ridiculous to believe that I don't THINK it at some point. Does a Jewish doctor have a right to NOT treat a Nazi? If not, would it be appropriate to blame him if the Nazi dies in his "care"? The problem is some people in minority groups (even white people in Japan for example) want universal ACCEPTANCE and that's simply not going to happen because some people are @sses. Hell, you want to see ANY group get bullied (pick a demographic, including "majority" groups) just go online to a group that feels aggrieved by the one you're wondering about. Bam, antagonistic collective will unload on them. And before anyone says "pshaw, that's just on the internet, no one takes that seriously". #1. There's a rising tide of documented cases of online bullying carrying real world consequences. #2. If you think online group-think is NOT mirrored in the real world SOMEWHERE then you're incredibly naive. |
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Sakagami Tomoyo
Posts: 940 Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia |
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I can only speculate as to why someone with a progressive mindset might move to such areas, but I would imagine it rarely involves them having much choice in the matter for one reason or another. I certainly wouldn't move to Queensland unless I absolutely needed to for work. But once there, if things suck for the types of people that conservatives don't approve of, I think it is fair enough to try to address that. Also, for the record, I am very much against the "well go somewhere else then" argument, regardless of who it is being told to go somewhere else.
There can be some grey area, but a lot of the arguments are over things that aren't really grey. Even setting aside same-sex marriage for the moment, Christians have argued (and some extremists still do) that engaging in homosexual sex should be banned, or even that having the desire is grounds for locking up or otherwise punishing people. There is no way in which two blokes screwing in the privacy of their own home harms anyone else, Christian or otherwise, yet some Christians still feel the need to try to prevent it at all costs, and use their religion to justify it. And of course this isn't to say that all Christians are homophobic, or that all homophobes are Christian.
Broadly speaking people can say these things, and broadly speaking it's not okay. Regarding things like the suicide example there, it's a matter of degree. A single insult, without anything else being thrown my way? If you're a reasonable person with a functioning sense of empathy, I'd expect you to feel a little guilty about it, but you're not really to blame. A prolonged campaign of harassment from you, or you being one of a group of thousands hurling abuse my way? Very much to blame.
One of the interesting moral dilemmas that comes up. Granted this is just from what I've heard, but from what I've heard doctors who are members of minorities are perfectly willing to be fair and treat bigots who hate them, but bigots tend to refuse treatment from the ones they hate. Still, it is possible (if unlikely) that a Jewish doctor might refuse to treat a Nazi but the Nazi insist the Jewish doctor treat him, so a question to consider. I would say a doctor refusing to treat someone is to blame, but in that example would have some sympathy for their reasoning, though not enough to mitigate any repercussions for refusing to treat someone. |
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gsilver
Posts: 617 |
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Well, I live in Utah, and it’s not uncommon for people to deny employment, housing, and practice social isolation against people based on their religion.
The church has a lot of sway here. I’ve still got some emails where recruiters ask me of my religion then deny to go any further based on my response. And just because it’s technically illegal doesn’t mean that they can’t get away with it. |
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