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The Best and Worst of the Season So Far: Week of Nov 19-25 [2017-11-30]


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killjoy_the



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 2459
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:41 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
I was really hoping to see the 3DCG show at the bottom.


But it's really good 3DCG!

Niello wrote:
It's still a no.2 disappointment of the season just behind Kino.


Naw naw, disappointment of the season was Girl's Last Tour, because it was the show I was hoping to get into and I hated it. I guess I have to end up agreeing with you that AMB was second, though.

...What do you mean, it's not only my opinion that counts?
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RyuuGP



Joined: 11 Feb 2017
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:12 pm Reply with quote
EDIT: Added spoiler tags. In the future, remember to add spoiler tags when discussing spoilers outside of the anime's dedicated discussion thread. --willag

Niello wrote:

I was close to tears reading the dragon chapter. The episode not only did nothing for me, but near opposite.

Is this dragon scene from episode 3/4 (can't remember), spoiler[when an old dragon passed away and became a tree?] Because that episode was pretty meh to me. The experience also worse thanks to jarring flying dragon animation and dragon children's bad voice acting.

Niello wrote:

Also note that the style of the "emotional music" used in that scene seems to be quite common lately, with MiA and GLT also making use of it. Maybe that contributes to it feeling like a try-hard knock-off, who knows?

Emotional music can deliver pretty good emotional scene if it's well directed.

So far, i've only watched 3 episodes of AMB, the experience was not really good. The art quality was very good, there was nothing from the plot that makes me want to watch the next episode. Especially at the end of episode 2 spoiler[when the protagonist seemed like got kidnapped, but next episode it turned out that the guy that kidnapped her was good guy all along.] This makes me think that there is no villain in this anime, it will just be our protagonist discovering the world of magic. I'm alright with slice of life anime, but this season i've been spoiled with GLT. Maybe i will pick it up again after GLT ends.
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FilthyCasual



Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 2190
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:14 pm Reply with quote
RyuuGP wrote:
This makes me think that there is no villain in this anime

There's a villain.
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Mealstrom



Joined: 25 Oct 2017
Posts: 32
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:42 pm Reply with quote
AMB feels like a show with a quality source and something great trying to get out, but weird pacing and story hiccups keep it from ever achieving it. I was expecting so much after the OVA, but it hasn't delivered at all. I'll finish it, but it's not that great.

GLT, however, went from a show that looked interesting to the best show of the season for me. It's hard to put exactly how into words, but it's exactly the right mix of depression, melancholy, and hope that makes me enjoy every moment of it.
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relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:38 pm Reply with quote
zrnzle500 wrote:
Frankly, that sort of thing is part of the reason why I don't read source material. If reading the original will ruin the anime, then I'm glad to evaluate the anime on its own.


Same here. I don't entirely skip source material, but if I know something is about to be adapted into anime, I will always avoid the source until after I've seen the anime. This has saved me so much pain. Most recently is undoubtedly A Silent Voice. One of my favorite films in recent years, which largely dissatisfied all of my friends who read the manga. I couldn't have been happier with the story told, personally. As much as people try, or say they can, it's impossible to truly separate two versions of a story if you know both.
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AnimusPrime



Joined: 15 Feb 2015
Posts: 51
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 am Reply with quote
Check out my main man GARO with a well-deserved bronze medal... that episode was dope
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18189
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:34 am Reply with quote
Mealstrom wrote:
AMB feels like a show with a quality source and something great trying to get out, but weird pacing and story hiccups keep it from ever achieving it. I was expecting so much after the OVA, but it hasn't delivered at all. I'll finish it, but it's not that great.

Usually I can at least understand why people who don't like a show that I am high on don't like it, but the "meh" attitudes or disappointment with AMB's TV series outright baffle me.

Quote:
GLT, however, went from a show that looked interesting to the best show of the season for me. It's hard to put exactly how into words, but it's exactly the right mix of depression, melancholy, and hope that makes me enjoy every moment of it.

This is the contrary case to the above. I can absolutely understand why people have fallen in love with it even though I'd only consider it to be "pretty good." (If I wasn't doing episode reviews for Dies irae then GLT would still only be my third-highest-priority view for Fridays, after Yuki Yuna and MMO Junkie.)
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Mealstrom



Joined: 25 Oct 2017
Posts: 32
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:45 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
Mealstrom wrote:
AMB feels like a show with a quality source and something great trying to get out, but weird pacing and story hiccups keep it from ever achieving it. I was expecting so much after the OVA, but it hasn't delivered at all. I'll finish it, but it's not that great.

Usually I can at least understand why people who don't like a show that I am high on don't like it, but the "meh" attitudes or disappointment with AMB's TV series outright baffle me.
It just feels like it's .... missing something. I'm not sure how to even put this into words. It lacks the extra oomph to make me feel and care, rather than just say, "Ok, that's a thing now." constantly. All the ingredients for an excellent anime are there, it just lacks the tightness and direction a truly good show has.
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Niello



Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 302
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:43 am Reply with quote
zrnzle500 wrote:
Niello wrote:
Not really, I like the manga but it's not one of my favourite. It told a good story and is well put together, and I appreciate that. I was expecting something of about the same level as Erased (minus the ending) and Re:Zero, which should be reasonable considering the source material.

When the first episode came out I thought it was okay, not great but passable. After that it just became more and more obvious that it's hardly a decent adaptation. The show is only relying on its source material, and background visual and music fluff. While its parts are good, it wasn't well put together. What are supposed to be heartfelt moments often feel forced and overly melodramatic, not to mention dragged out. The pacing is awkward. The way it copies the chibi straight out from the manga is also irking. When I watch it the way it's handled reminds me of Shoukoku no Altair just not on the same trainwreck level of treatment. despite its pretty look, it feels souless like One Piece where it's just doing what is passable because they know the manga story will do the job.

I was close to tears reading the dragon chapter. The episode not only did nothing for me, but near opposite.


So it's relying on the strength of the source material for its writing, has some nice backgrounds, and effectively uses its musical score supplement its visuals. What else does it need to be a merely decent adaptation? The direction in the first few episodes could have been better, but I think that has become more deft in the more recent episodes. The animation of the OVA was better, but that was effectively movie level (budget and time frame) work while the TV series obviously only has TV level work. Not to say that more lush animation can't be done on a TV series, but expecting something at the level of, say, what I've heard about Violet Evergarden (that it is(one of) KyoAni's strongest production(s)) is what I mean when I say over-inflated expectations. Wit does some good work, but it ain't KyoAni or Bones, or whichever other studio or staff that does a consistently good job visually that you want to compare it to. I'd say in terms of direction and animation it is at least at the same level as Re:Zero.

I don't generally read manga (or other kinds of source material) so I can't comment on how well it is adapting the material, but as an anime-only viewer, I'm only concerned about that as far as it affects the quality of the show standing alone from the source. Given what I've seen so far, I'm not concerned about that, unlike Kino for example. Frankly, that sort of thing is part of the reason why I don't read source material. If reading the original will ruin the anime, then I'm glad to evaluate the anime on its own.


Your first paragraph is pretty much addressed by other people already. Just because individual parts are good, doesn't necessarily mean they are put together well, which was my point. I don't think AMB is on the same level as Re:Zero, not even close. I have also mentioned this before, Seraph of the End and Rolling Girls were done by the same studio and those have better animation than AMB. I really can't find a more blatant way of saying my expectation isn't that high, the show's animation just really isn't good outside of a few scenes. It mostly uses the visual to cover it up.

I'm more of a manga reader than an anime watcher, and I consider the stories to be generally more well told in that medium. With AMB I haven't read this part of the manga in years and honestly my memory isn't that great. It's not hindering my experience of GLT or LotL, the latter which I reread before the anime started. I highly doubt I would be singing praise of the show even if the anime is my first time experiencing it. It really isn't well put together. While the story is quite strong when you put into account the fairly episodic nature, it's still not outstanding, just above average imo. I also find the characterisation of the characters to be fairly weak. likw I said, the manga managed to put those together and made them into an enjoyable experience, so far the anime didn't. That said, I do agree that it got slightly better after episode 3. So I'm hoping that somewhere down the line it manages to pull itself together.
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zrnzle500



Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3767
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:33 am Reply with quote
^With regard to Seraph of the End’s animation, are you including the parts where they had to pan over stills in your assessment of that show’s animation versus this one? Certainly the show had some animation highlights, but it was not consistent, especially towards the end of the cours, not unlike AoT. Personally, I would prefer the production of AMB to not end up so troubled like a number of Wit’s other series, especially as one of Wit’s few two (consecutive) cours series.
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Niello



Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 302
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:45 am Reply with quote
zrnzle500 wrote:
^With regard to Seraph of the End’s animation, are you including the parts where they had to pan over stills in your assessment of that show’s animation versus this one? Certainly the show had some animation highlights, but it was not consistent, especially towards the end of the cours, not unlike AoT. Personally, I would prefer the production of AMB to not end up so troubled like a number of Wit’s other series, especially as one of Wit’s few two (consecutive) cours series.


What even are you trying to say? At this point of generalisation you are just including all the TV anime out there.
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zrnzle500



Joined: 04 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:00 am Reply with quote
^I'm saying that if you are saying that Seraph of the End's animation is better, both the highlights and the lowlights in animation should be considered. Yes, it does have highlights, but it was also troubled near the end of the cours, to put it lightly, and I don't want AMB to experience the same.
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Angel M Cazares



Joined: 23 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:46 am Reply with quote
zrnzle500 wrote:
Frankly, that sort of thing is part of the reason why I don't read source material. If reading the original will ruin the anime, then I'm glad to evaluate the anime on its own.

I am not a manga/LN reader. I am only interested in watching the anime version. When the story really interests me, and the anime leaves it incomplete is when I consider going to the source material.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:11 pm Reply with quote
Niello wrote:
Your first paragraph is pretty much addressed by other people already. Just because individual parts are good, doesn't necessarily mean they are put together well, which was my point. I don't think AMB is on the same level as Re:Zero, not even close. I have also mentioned this before, Seraph of the End and Rolling Girls were done by the same studio and those have better animation than AMB. I really can't find a more blatant way of saying my expectation isn't that high, the show's animation just really isn't good outside of a few scenes. It mostly uses the visual to cover it up.

I could pretty much say the same about Seraph of the End's animation - and yes, I have watched the whole thing. At least AMB doesn't heavily rely on still scenes in major action moments like that series does and has both better background art and better creature design. There's no question which series I would rate as the stronger visual effort overall.
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relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
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Location: Northern Virginia
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:05 pm Reply with quote
I think most of you already know, but comparing two series from the same studio based on their production values is kind of a pointless endeavor. And expecting everything from a studio to have the same level of polish is also pointless. Seraph of the End and AMB have almost nothing to do with each other staff wise, and the production schedules for each are totally different. AMB is also a two cour, continuously running series, while Seraph was split cour. We'll undoubtedly see highlights in this series, and there have already been some, but the truth is that Seraph had a few really notable freelance key animators show up thanks to Daisuke Tokudo and Satoshi Kadowaki's connections throughout the industry. Guys from Bones, Gainax, straight from Production IG, etc. That's why that show has uncharacteristically grand highlights that a lot of people love to focus on, but as noted, also has some pretty low lows, especially toward the end of each cour(which, admittedly, many other people love to focus on).
A few great animators can bring highlights, but a good schedule is more important for a consistently strong production. I think AMB is obviously playing the long game to bring a consistent production from beginning to end with a few highlights throughout.

Anyway, expecting people like Kou Yoshinari to show up on every WIT project when he doesn't know anyone there isn't going to happen. Most of the other notable work was done by guys like Takuma Ebisu who is probably either already working on AoT 3 or Kabaneri, so don't expect him to be on this project either.

Also worth noting is that AMB has, similar to Welcome to the Ballroom and Attack on Titan, placed way too high of a focus on keeping things on-model(personal opinion), so you're going to see fewer pieces of extravagant animation, in general. Keeping things pretty in every frame means less movement 100% of the time.
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