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Yune Amagiri
Joined: 28 Jul 2016
Posts: 932
Location: France
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:52 pm
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Didin't comment since years but hey let's go, sorry if my english isn't good enought.
"It"s gross so it's trash" we have been hearing this kind of things more and more since the last few years but it's not like it only started recently, it has always been a part of our otaku culture, a lot of old popular mangas and anime had plenty ( let's use this word people seem to like so much ) gross scene, did it make them less appealing ? No and i am pretty sure most people complaning about all theses "gross" series did love some on them in the past , so why do we always see so much hostility every season?
Many reasons rather simple and stupid, in our community we call this being a hater, anyone going on more "hardcore" site know how boring and hypocritical all theses community wars can be, people should just say " i'm not fan of this kind of stuff so i don't like it" rather than being over dramatic and calling something what it shouldn't be called then trying to rally people to their cause like some groups disike by most do every season starting episode 1.
As someone who watched every single animes each season and years no matter what kind, subbed or not and been hardcore otaku since decades, i don't see any reasons to be over dramatic about Imosae, a serie with A LOT of well done emotional scene, orignal scene ( among all this year's animes , the taxes scene was the only scene i don't recall seeing in the past ) and a better comical ecchi than most series, when usually they are so restrained that we could wonder why they did even bother doing ecchi scene, Imosae goes all out and stand out even from the point of view of hardcore fan, seeing how most anime became so restrained and stereotypical going all out is something i will always welcome as a really good idea .
This hostility happens every season when a anime aimed for men otaku with some ecchi scene start to be popular. If we want to deny anime with ecchi "gross" scene, whatever they are well done or not, why just stop to imosae and don't put this seasons's osomatsu-san and boku no kanojo ga majimesugiru in the basket ! Let's just be honest and not a hypocritical hater.
And for this Chihiro/Setsuna scene seem like people doesn't even care seeing further than their typical " it's gross" and don't bother about the fact Chihiro is wearing a panty even tought he is said to be a stepbrother, overlooked a key scene and straight to insult...
Last edited by Yune Amagiri on Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Scalfin
Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 249
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:07 pm
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Yttrbio wrote: | To give a less hostile response, I get the impression that the discussion comes from the assumption that a show being self-aware must necessarily be part of a takedown of the genre. It seriously misreads shows like this and what they're trying to do (Saekano had similar responses). The show is clearly written by and for fans of this stuff, all of whom are 100% aware of how stupid it all is, but love it anyway. So talking about the silly assumptions of the genre is the show's sense of humor, not an attempt at deconstructing anything. ("Wow, the conventions we all know and love are pretty stupid, aren't they?" not "These coventions are bad") To call that a failure because it doesn't reject its own attempt to be enjoyable seems like missing the point, and imposing certain storytelling conventions that just aren't applicable.
At the end of the day, the response is 'ew,' (a totally reasonable response) trying to be framed as 'this show is not working.' It is working, just not in any way you want it to be. |
This is especially odd given that this site rains down praise for the many shows that do this for other genres, particularly shojo genres like magical girls. It's not like the concept is foreign to them.
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ZeArNkN
Joined: 27 Dec 2010
Posts: 95
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:31 pm
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Łukasz Kawosz wrote: |
Merxamers wrote: | The first 2 minutes of this show were so gross and off-putting that i had a moral crisis about the media i choose to consume |
You must be as emotionally strong as a newborn chicken. Or maybe I'm too desentized to stuff that normal people find horrifying? I don't know. |
I'm the same. Ecchi stuff rarely gets under my skin. I mostly either enjoy it or I'm simply indifferent to it. I haven't seen that infamous scene from A Sister is All You Need though.
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TasteyCookie
Joined: 19 Jan 2017
Posts: 421
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:38 pm
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Yttrbio wrote: | To give a less hostile response, I get the impression that the discussion comes from the assumption that a show being self-aware must necessarily be part of a takedown of the genre. It seriously misreads shows like this and what they're trying to do (Saekano had similar responses). The show is clearly written by and for fans of this stuff, all of whom are 100% aware of how stupid it all is, but love it anyway. So talking about the silly assumptions of the genre is the show's sense of humor, not an attempt at deconstructing anything. ("Wow, the conventions we all know and love are pretty stupid, aren't they?" not "These coventions are bad") To call that a failure because it doesn't reject its own attempt to be enjoyable seems like missing the point, and imposing certain storytelling conventions that just aren't applicable.
At the end of the day, the response is 'ew,' (a totally reasonable response) trying to be framed as 'this show is not working.' It is working, just not in any way you want it to be. |
^^ Hit the nail on the head and totally agree. A show indulging in its fetishes while acknowledging its fetishes are not for everyone does not make it bad. It knows who its audience is and this article comes off as trying to shame the audience for liking the elements the show was made for. It's first and foremost a raunchy sex comedy. The emotional bits and thoughtful insight are a just the cherry on top for fans who enjoy the show and its material (much like Saekano was.)
Now, I 100% understand not liking the show if you came into it looking for a "thoughtful deconstruction of fetish fueled Light Novels" but that's not what the show has been trying to do, so demonizing the show for not doing it is pretty unfair. Especially with demonizing wish fulfilment type's of characters. I don't know what's up with reviewers on here and their general hatred for any wish fulfilment with female characters. I just don't understand why it's inherently awful. In the context of the show, Nayu makes perfect sense. She's not trying to demonstrate an accurate portrayal of a real life 18 year old genius author...
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Lemonchest
Joined: 18 Mar 2015
Posts: 1771
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:42 pm
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Onara Goro is the best thing CR added to their catalogue this season. It's an injustice that it took a year for such a metaphysical masterpiece to get the legitimacy granted by being licensed.
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Kougeru
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 5527
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:12 pm
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The only "speed bumps" in this show were the first few minutes of episode 1. Everything after that has been very enjoyable and tame.
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marshmallowpie
Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 300
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:31 pm
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Quote: | but you can't say "haha isn't sisfucker-kun gross" while parading anime girls onscreen for the viewer's pleasure |
Maybe I'm just a crazy otaku, but I feel like regular old ecchi isn't quite as bad as incest, fictional or double-fictional. But although I absolutely do not share Itsuki's enthusiasm for imouto, I enjoy his character and can relate with my own anime girl type I like too much. It's ridiculous but it's fun because it's ridiculous and true, that yes, this is what it's like when you're truly otaku about something.
I have zero problems admitting I love Nayu a ton, in both in a "haha ew" way like the dessert screenshot posted here, and in a real way, in sketchy lewd moments, serious moments, and everything in between. I really love shows that have a good mix of serious and absurd scenes, where the contrast between the two make both shine. The cuteness of both Nayu and Miyako really doesn't hurt either.
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Mapmerry
Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Posts: 14
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:35 am
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Having released a small indy game on steam a bit ago that episode with the anime watch hit so close to home I couldn't help but love the series.
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CatSword
Joined: 01 Jul 2014
Posts: 1489
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:45 am
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Okay, thank god I didn't go on ANN during school yesterday. That thumbnail is definitely NSFW.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 16935
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:36 am
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Łukasz Kawosz wrote: |
Yttrbio wrote: | The show is clearly written by and for fans of this stuff, all of whom are 100% aware of how stupid it all is, but love it anyway. |
But hey, aren't we talking about ANN there, who are supposed to like anime and all kinds of japanese media or something? |
Just because you're a fan of something does not mean you are required to like everything in that fandom.
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Melicans
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Posts: 620
Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:05 pm
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This series was written by a woman. Maybe that's what makes her take on this interesting.
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Calsolum
Joined: 11 May 2010
Posts: 898
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:53 am
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wow this week in anime was I'd like to say uncharacteristically harsh but I suppose the show does deserve it for a few scenes.
But IMO the only scene that really struck a chord as tasteless was the attempted sexual assault that was just laughed off and the scenes of haruto pretending to be gay. However in the case of the latter as I didn't really have any strong emotions on it and just thought ha what a conman since I've never been on that end of the spectrum but I will give you guys the benefit of the doubt that it was creepy.
as for Nayu... she's certainly a problem child in many ways but i mean when she's not sexually harassing Itsuki or assaulting Miyako she's just being hilariously childish, absurd or blunt. sometimes a combination of these and the series does know this, I'd be reacting alot differently if the series was just trying to play it off as such actions being 'natural' (like RokuAka its one of my favorite shows but it really doesn't know how to, or how it should portray female characters)
Like I'm not even bothered by the negative but accurate criticism of the shows weaker points I just sorta expected a bit more positive criticism for being an entertaining piece of shit. And that's all we really want entertaining works of fiction, crappy, crass or otherwise.
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relyat08
Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 4125
Location: Northern Virginia
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:20 am
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Melicans wrote: | This series was written by a woman. Maybe that's what makes her take on this interesting. |
I don't see any reference to the author's gender on Japanese nor English Wikipedia, or any other source. If you're basing it on the picture of that Haganai cosplayer that shows up in Google search, I don't think that's actually any sort of reliable confirmation though.
I would be fascinated to learn if they are indeed a woman though, because this material is not at all what I'd expect from a woman's take on the subject matter.
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Łukasz Kawosz
Joined: 11 Jul 2017
Posts: 77
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:56 am
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relyat08 wrote: | I would be fascinated to learn if they are indeed a woman though, because this material is not at all what I'd expect from a woman's take on the subject matter. |
Wait a second are you implying women are somehow different from men? This is not what both feminism and practice has taught us.
Would you believe Kodomo no Jikan wasn't written by some creepy otaku pedophile but by a woman based on her experiences? I think not.
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relyat08
Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 4125
Location: Northern Virginia
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:41 pm
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^I honestly struggled to write that in a way that I hoped would not come across as implying anything malevolent, but it is what it is. Anyway yes, there are differences between men and women, and more relevantly, how they write.
And I've known for a long time that Kodomo no Jikan was written by a woman and no, that does not surprise me at all. The difference between something like this show, and something like Kodomo no Jikan, presents the exact type of subtleties and nuances that are what make their takes different.
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