Forum - View topicThis Week in Anime - Whatever Happened to Welcome to the Ballroom?
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Really hoping for Konohana Kitan next week. Discussion would be much more pleasant.
Never seen Ballroom, don't plan on seeing Ballroom. Thanks for an engaging discussion. |
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Shippoyasha
Posts: 459 |
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I'm not sure I can agree that the sexual politics is why the show wasn't as good as it could have been. It just needed better animation and character dynamics that would have naturally bettered whatever sexuality depth the show could have had if it just had better writing. I don't sense any kind of malice or 'wrong' ideology on the part of the anime or manga staff. Just that the storytelling could have been better told to facilitate all aspects of it, including sexuality.
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jdnation
Posts: 1998 |
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I saw Mako and Shizuku's taking responsibility for their partner's hotheadedness as the common Japanese way where one apologizes on behalf of another, usually their kohei, as a professional courtesy. This does not imply they're at fault, but rather that they are the more mature/humble party in this case and taking the responsibility to normalize relations. There is that typical Beauty/Beast dynamic there too where the woman provides the nuturing/gentleness to the man's anger/brutality. Mojave's description of actual competitive dancing was very good and knowing that I can now see that there is a lot of missed opportunity for not fleshing out the sporting angle as to what dancing is all about. Perhaps a better way to approach it is starting with our main hero having the wrong impression of dancing and making that his blind spot; then developing his relationships as he's further along and learning more. Though this would change the character's development as it seems to emphasize that he is relying too much on his partner's abilities and must become good himself. Depending on how long the manga intends to run, it's possible that the complexity of the sport and what Mojave explained is eventually brought up as the story dynamics go along, but it is odd that it is missing completely thus far, especially when considering that indeed they've been practising for a very long time and doing routines over and over. There is no way to fix that now. But I find it odd that the writer would miss such an obvious thing when researching which makes me imagine that its omission was deliberate to serve the story the author wanted to tell. Even the books each credit that the author received help from pros and dance studios, though that was more for reference. I'd agree this wasn't the best way to approach it, and there are ways of getting the same ideas across without omitting such technical details. Those things are usually half the fun to learn about despite exaggerations. Perhaps the author intends to save them for later? Or perhaps the story intends only to deal with emotion rather than technicalities? In my estimation, there was no reason both couldn't be there... even if only in passing mention, though I guess there is always the technique of relying on the 'flashback' if the author intends to reintroduce such basics later. |
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Moo Moo
Posts: 16 |
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I have not read the entire thread, but I don't see where the authors of the article claim the show would improve with the addition of homosexual characters or why this is even a talking point. Whether or not the characters are gay or straight it would not help the rest of the actual issues they have with the writing such as what a drag it is to have the characters constantly venomous towards each other etc. Personally, I could never get past the elongated bodies. It's freaky, and I liked Code Geass.
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Whitewolf55
Posts: 12 |
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Personally I like the characters. I know many people don't and there are a few characters even I don't like, but I find Tatara to be an alright lead for this. Gaju grew on me extremely quickly after he stopped being suck a stick in the mud. I always liked Mako because Mako. Chizuru and Chinatsu are both spitfires that balance the more rowdy side of Sengoku and hesitant side of Tatara, and speaking of Sengoku he is by far my favorite character in this series. I could write paragraphs on him but I won't in this particular response. The production does have it's problems but when it hits, it hits. When Ballroom does show us the quick footwork of the dancers or the sequences of dance variations they look beautiful (episode 11 and episode 12 were the best for this off the top of my head). The 2nd cour of the show really has let the music play over what is happening and I personally don't mind too much when it becomes "sports anime music" because that's something sports anime just have (the insert song in the finale of Tatara and Mako's dance against Gaju was fantastic. Into the Groove was I think the song) I enjoy the overall color palate. When I think of Ballroom I think of the darker red, black, and yellow and I think it all mixes well (for another example: I think of Teal, Blue, and white when someone says Yuri on Ice) The panning shots and stills during the dance scenes can be seriously frustrating at times, but never do they look ugly. It's nearly always good artwork. I think overall Ballroom feels like the little engine that could for me because yes there are quite a few other sport shows that are better, but I can also name half a dozen or more sport shows that are worse, and I'll be damned if I think Ballroom isn't trying. Side Note: This is just a theory, but I'm wondering if Production I.G. MIGHT pull something like the Yuri on Ice blu rays? I've heard more skating scenes were put into the YoI blu rays that just couldn't make it to the tv air time, and i'm wondering if maybe more dancing scenes will be shown in Ballroom with the blu rays? There are obvious spaces that they could be put into, but that's just my theory without knowing anything. It's possible they might not do that. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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@ Whitewolf55 - thank you for response! It's interesting to hear from the (mostly) positive side of the equation. I have to admit that this thread has kind of made me curious to watch an eppie or two of the show myself just to see where I'd land.
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Whitewolf55
Posts: 12 |
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There are a handful of episodes that are "meh" or kind of blend together, but I could easily say that I've had fun most of the way throughout. There was always something per episode I liked, I don't think I've outright disliked more than 1 episode (which was later in the 2nd cour) I think people went into it expecting to get hype like in Haikyuu, KnB, OR Ace of Diamond, but it has much more of a Big Windup, All Out!!, and Baby Steps feeling |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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While I understand your frustration, it is a fact that the subject of gender politics is absolutely relevant both to Welcome to the Ballroom and to the article that this thread is attached to. The show does indeed have a concerning viewpoint on the roles that men and women should take. A guy who is isn't masculine enough? According to the show, that's bad, and he needs to take charge. A girl who isn't feminine enough? Again, bad; she needs to shut up, look pretty, and let the guy do all the work. In fact, in that vein, another major female character had no lines in an episode where her future in the sport was a major line of discussion for the male characters. She literally had no say in who her own future partner would be. That was the log that snapped the camel's spine (at least in my view), and it was clear from other episodes I watched that there was this bizarre belittlement of women going on. Not just that, but as alluded to above the author's views on relationship dynamics (in dance and romance) are from the dark ages. Apparently good (or even decent) communication is impossible so each person should do their own thing. Guys are all "supposed" to be hot-tempered and horrible, apparently, and so the male characters are uniformly unsympathetic pricks (some are even worse than that). And girls are "supposed" to be cold, catty, bitchy and snide, so apart from Mako (who is the "sweet-but-naive girl") the female characters come across as harpies. I hate using "current year" arguments, but it's just weird that in 2017 we get a big-name production where not only are everyone jerks, but they are jerks in the most stereotypical and cliched way possible.* And from a female author too; I know women can be misogynistic too but does the manga-ka really hate her own gender? Or has her only interactions with the opposite sex been limited to shoujo manga, and so she is just massively ignorant of how relationships (whether professional or romantic) work in the real world? Eh, probably the latter, since she also has done no favours for her male characters. She obviously has done little research on real-life competitive dancing but I would have thought normal human relationships would have been within her grasp. Though, she did choose to write a manga about a co-ed sport in which the teamwork and dynamics between the male and female partners is absolutely crucial. * I think this is what Jacob was alluding to in his very poorly-worded rant on the topic. It's the outdated stereotypes about how men and women are supposed to behave around one another that helps make WttBr so tiring and frustrating to watch. Wish he hadn't flame-baited his own audience though; using the prefix "hetero-" like it's a filthy word and insinuating that hetero romances are automatically toxic i.e. "But that emphasis on practice and preparation and diversity in partner styles would contradict Ballroom's love affair with the idea of improvised power plays on the show floor, "taming" or "tricking" your partner into doing what you want in the moment, as an analogy for the highs of a heteronormative romance in its early stages." was needlessly provocative. (note: emphasis mine) |
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Lord Oink
Posts: 876 |
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I am fairly sure if I whipped out a taser and shot an electrical charge at another participant during any sport it would be against the rules. And also assault...
Are we really doing the whole 'the author clearly is a permavirgin who has never known the touch of a woman' only with an actual woman this time? Don't know what Takeuchi's marital status is, but I imagine she wouldn't appreciate some guy "mansplaining" why she apparently hates herself and making assumptions about her. Rather than telling someone you know her better than she does, maybe it would be better to realize different people like or think different things. But then, when has anyone cared aboit what a women actually wanted in these debates about them or treated them as individual people with individual minds. Maybe she likes the idea of a wild woman being tamed like how a girl tames a reckless bad boy. Maybe she's the kind of person who thinks there's nothing demeaning or degrading about a woman choosing to be a housewife, or actually wants to be a princess, which are apparently controveral in Current Year America.. |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11354 |
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The lightning eyes in Kuroko's Basketball was a visual indication the player was in The Zone. They weren't assaulting each other with lightning jutsu, just leveling up. Kinda like Chinatsu bursting out of Tatara's chest like an Alien, to show...actually, I'm not entirely sure what they were trying to say with that. All I could think of was that it was some weird m-preg fantasy with Tatara giving birth to Chinatsu. |
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
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This bothered me too. All the other metaphors they've used have more or less made some modicum of sense, at least within the show's eschewed narrative: the flower and frame, the four-legged beast, the other person's dancing taking over you, the opening the door, etc. But what is the supposed meaning of Tatara giving birth to Chinatsu out of a giant flower exploding off his chest? |
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Lord Oink
Posts: 876 |
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Aw, and I was hoping it was like Inazuma Eleven levels of powers. |
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residentgrigo
 Posts: 2421 Location: Germany |
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Ballroom e Youkoso is first of all the best TV anime of the year, a true accomplishment. 9/10, slow clap.
My point is another, as i ain´t joining this madhouse of a discussion. IG technically started to deviate from the manga at the end of ep.21 or with ep. 22 as the latest. Tomo Takeuchi might have given them pointers on how this arc will shake out and the newly resumed(-ish?) manga may even align but IG might have delivered an original ending for now and any form of adapted sequel will need to wait till next decade anyway. Start with chap 46 of the manga, that´s the latest one, if you want to follow along seamlessly after the ending and feel free to disregard the last 3 ep. for now. I also very happy that the identical manga got universal praise in Japan, was up for awards and is much liked by the scanlation scene. So whatever this community saw in it is FAR of from what the public at large though. Near 200 comment and frustrated mods in it´s wake. This is a romantic dramedy about youthful passion and it´s devoid of controversial themes, yet here you all are. Living though an r/MadLads threat... 
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Heishi
 Posts: 1319 |
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The fact that there is such drama over this show, because of the "gender politics" and whatever makes me really wanna check out this show...
...and all this controversy is on ANN of all places. ANN is in a unique place right now. But should I be surprised? |
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Joshua Zarate
Posts: 2061 |
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*Facepalm* Oh, ok, sure. Whatever you say. 
Anyway, looks like it was probably the right decision for me to not watch this show. I’m not a fan of dancing to begin with, but I was willing to give it a chance if enough people liked it. That now looks very unlikely to ever happen. |
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