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INTEREST: Inuyashiki's Trump Cameo Sure Isn't Flattering


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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 4337
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:13 pm Reply with quote
bones2039 wrote:
Trump isn't good but had the voters gone the other way we would still have a narcissist for a president.

spoiler[
....Yeah I'm pretty sure if things had turned out like they should've Hillary wouldn't do things like complain (and lie) about the size her inauguration, lie and moan about a variety of topics (most of which are irrelevant) on twitter, expect people to swear fealty to her under threat of being fired, complain about losing the popular vote via voting fraud (with no proof), constantly throw members of her own cabinet and party under the bus, coddle up to Russia, rattle sabers with North Korea, push for a tax reform bill that lowers corporate tax rates while cutting various things that benefit regular working or poor people (that she also benefit from), appoint incompetent hacks (along with very close friends and family) to important government positions while ironically having trouble filling other key positions while headbangingly insisting this a good thing, insist many sides are to blame for acts of violence following a white supremacist rally that lead to an innocent woman being run over and killed by a car alienating a number of black people sitting on committees you set up, attempt to undo a lot Obama's legacy out of spite, try to ban transgender individuals from serving in the military, try to ban muslim indiviuals from legally entering the country, rollback on a number of government regulations that ensure things like keeping our air clean and workers have a less likely chance of getting injured on the job, choose to move the U.S. embassy to other side of Jerusalem and in the process kill whatever chance there was to try and do something on negotiating peace between the Palestinians and Israelis, try to void the Iran Nuclear Deal under the pretense it's a bad deal and the Iranians aren't honoring it despite the fact that the former isn't true and without substantiating her claims, alienate and antagonize our allies, etc ]
All these examples are a few of the things Trump has done that I guarantee you that Hillary would've never done since you know she's not a grown woman who thinks she should be taken seriously even while doing things that make her (and the U.S. as whole) look unquestionably stupid. So I don't know where you're getting this "same thing" nonsense that was shilled about way too much during last year's election cycle by people who did not know what they were talking about.

bones2039 wrote:
The US had no actually decent canidate to vote for from the major parties. We were doomed no matter if you liked team red or blue.


If the above and this is how you saw the 2016 election it's no surprise as to why Trump won states certain states like Michigan and Florida.

bones2039 wrote:
I voted for the guy that came across as a stoner over either of those two idiots.


If that stoner guy is Gary Johnson you not only voted for an idiot (one who doesn't know what Aleppo is) that makes Trump look competent you basically helped repeat what the U.S. went through more or less with Ralph Nader who played a pivotal role in causing Florida to be as narrow as it was back in 2000....don't need to tell you how that one played out do I?

Arguments like yours is why it pays to pay actual attention to politics instead of coming to shortsighted conclusions gleamed from outlets like South Park.
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Lord Oink



Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 876
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:29 pm Reply with quote
hissatsu01 wrote:
If the only thing keeping you from acting like a monster is the fear of consequences, it says a lot about your character, or lack thereof.


I like to think it says I'm more honest than most. People can say things, but you'll never know if they're being honest until the end of the world.

zrnzle500 wrote:
Would you still think it wasn't an unflattering portrayal if it were, say, the previous president saying it?


Obama? Well for him it'd be pretty unflattering given the rep he tried to have.

Bonham wrote:
On top of that, polling data throughout Japan and the rest of the world show that Trump and the U.S. are largely viewed in a negative light compared to the previous eight years. You can support him and/or your own identity politics without denying facts, y'know.


Japan is not the rest of the world though. Sure, Trump attracts protesters in other countries he visits... but it's strange that didn't happen in Japan. It's not like Japan doesn't have protests, so it's odd the only people who were against Trump being in Japan were gaijins. Most peculiar indeed... maybe they polled a bunch of expats or are lying. An American organization did the polling, after all

BadNewsBlues wrote:
All these examples are a few of the things Trump has done that I guarantee you that Hillary would've never done since you know she's not a grown woman who thinks she should be taken seriously even while doing things that make her (and the U.S. as whole) look unquestionably stupid.


Half the stuff you listed isn't even a negative. It was honestly pretty refreshing hearing Trump condemn Antifa after stuff like Obama praising BLM during the Dallas funeral.
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Bonham



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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Location: Queens, New York
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:12 pm Reply with quote
Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics" -- Mark Twain, et al.

Stuart Smith wrote:
You can stand solely by polls if you want. I prefer putting faces and experiences to views. I'll stand by the first hand experience I've seen and heard in Japan, and what my collegues say. It's just very telling when the anti-Trump protest in Japan was made up of Americans. If you want to see anti-American sentiment first hand, I suggust staying in Okinawa for your next visit.

A poll of a general view of America can't reflect how a person feels about Americans in Japan, or if they want to visit America.

You two have outlined no argument to disprove such methodologies. You have only obfuscated numbers when they conflict with your worldview, which is consistent with the general strain of anti-education and anti-intellectualism pushed in the west—that the common man knows better than experts on their studied subject. Both of you made no response to Terrible90sDub point in regards to accuracy of polling data. One of you even continues to bark about "trends" later in your post, yet you clearly reject those when polls around the world inconvenience you. And the Okinama comment—which has its obvious history and reasons for disliking America and its military—is such a misleading aside.

As Top Gun said, anecdotes are not evidence. I went to Japan and South Korea on a trip last year, saw the news and caught broadcasts in which they discussed Trump and the U.S. And you know what? Playing the anecdote game is useless. That's why math, science, and research actually matters, not your feelings.

Quote:
When the 'exceptions' outweigh a trend, then they become the new trend, as it turns out. I merely named two examples off the top of my head.

Being able to quantify those would be helpful, yes. Even if the most visible examples have been negative portrayals, it's a pointless argument to continue unless numbers are pulled in to settle a conclusion.

Quote:
There are plenty others, but I suspect it will always be the 'exception' in your eyes no matter how many I list.

...

Lord Oink wrote:
Japan is not the rest of the world though. Sure, Trump attracts protesters in other countries he visits... but it's strange that didn't happen in Japan. It's not like Japan doesn't have protests, so it's odd the only people who were against Trump being in Japan were gaijins. Most peculiar indeed... maybe they polled a bunch of expats or are lying. An American organization did the polling, after all

The Pew Research Center has a specifically excellent and respected reputation in regards to their reliability and accuracy with their polling. There's no reason to assume that they were dishonest about their methodology, let alone outright lying. It's clear that you like Trump. You can continue to support him, and also accept the fact that he's viewed uniquely unfavorably by the rest of the world. This isn't an either/or.

Furthermore, expecting unilateral protests worldwide for every single trip of a state figure is asinine. It also shows ignorance of cultural differences in the frequency and motivation behind why protests happen (the Japanese protests with Obama's visit came under the shadow of Hiroshima, whereas Trump's recent visit did not concern that).
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 4337
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:10 pm Reply with quote
Lord Oink wrote:
Half the stuff you listed isn't even a negative.


Even if that's true (which it isn't) it's not positive either which is the problem.


Lord Oink wrote:
It was honestly pretty refreshing hearing Trump condemn Antifa


Case and point. Especially as that so called condemnation involved blaming "many sides" for something a guy representing a group with questionable views did. That got him roasted by.....many sides, though the people he opted not to rightfully single out with that condemnation liked it.

Lord Oink wrote:
after stuff like Obama praising BLM during the Dallas funeral.


.......Considering that BLM wasn't responsible for the shooting in Dallas or the one in Baton Rouge a few days later what was he supposed to say about them? There's also the fact he criticized some protesters (which would include BLM) in the same speech for being occasionally being somewhat overzealous.


Quote:
“Protesters, you know it,” Mr. Obama said. “You know how dangerous some of the communities where these police officers serve are, and you pretend as if there’s no context. These things we know to be true.”


You can read the transcript if you want

http://time.com/4403543/president-obama-dallas-shooting-memorial-service-speech-transcript/
[/quote]
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hissatsu01



Joined: 08 May 2006
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Location: NYC
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:35 am Reply with quote
Lord Oink wrote:
hissatsu01 wrote:
If the only thing keeping you from acting like a monster is the fear of consequences, it says a lot about your character, or lack thereof.


I like to think it says I'm more honest than most. People can say things, but you'll never know if they're being honest until the end of the world.


I'm don't think basically saying "I'm a sociopath, and just about everyone else is too, but they won't admit it." is something to boast about.
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Just Passing Through



Joined: 04 Apr 2011
Posts: 261
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:01 am Reply with quote
Like the UK, Japan has a complex relationship with the US, which in their case stretches back a hundred years or so; even longer for the UK, so it isn't surprising that US politics gets greater scrutiny in the press and popular media than it will in the rest of the world.

The first presidential parody I saw was a George W. Bush-alike wetting himself in Read or Die, and subsequent appearances from him and his successors have shown up to varying degrees of mockery in many anime.

The thing about Donald Trump is that his appearance, his manner, his way of speaking make him an even greater target for lampooning even before you consider his politics. Once you get into those politics, any satire is going to be harsh.

As for how he appears to the world... I think the UN is a useful example, at least when it comes to diplomacy and not public opinion. When the US does something that people can get behind, they get a broad level of support, such as the recent vote to increase sanctions on North Korea.

And then we have the Jerusalem thing. They take a vote in the General Assembly for a proposal to disregard the US move, and to promote the original view that the Jerusalem issue was to be decided after a two state solution was implemented. Trump announces that he'll 'Take Names' and pull funding from any country that votes against the US.

128 for, 9 against, 35 abstentions, 21 absent.

Those voting with the US and Israel were, Guatemala, Honduras, Marshall Islands. Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, and Togo.

I get the feeling that the rest of the world is just hoping that Trump will go away in 3 years or sooner, and not screw up the planet too badly as he exits. They're just waiting for the US to get back to 'normal'. As for the satirists, comedians, lampooners, they'll be making hay while the big orange sun shines.
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bigivel



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 536
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:59 am Reply with quote
Just Passing Through wrote:
Like the UK, Japan has a complex relationship with the US, which in their case stretches back a hundred years or so; even longer for the UK, so it isn't surprising that US politics gets greater scrutiny in the press and popular media than it will in the rest of the world.

The first presidential parody I saw was a George W. Bush-alike wetting himself in Read or Die, and subsequent appearances from him and his successors have shown up to varying degrees of mockery in many anime.

The thing about Donald Trump is that his appearance, his manner, his way of speaking make him an even greater target for lampooning even before you consider his politics. Once you get into those politics, any satire is going to be harsh.

As for how he appears to the world... I think the UN is a useful example, at least when it comes to diplomacy and not public opinion. When the US does something that people can get behind, they get a broad level of support, such as the recent vote to increase sanctions on North Korea.

And then we have the Jerusalem thing. They take a vote in the General Assembly for a proposal to disregard the US move, and to promote the original view that the Jerusalem issue was to be decided after a two state solution was implemented. Trump announces that he'll 'Take Names' and pull funding from any country that votes against the US.

128 for, 9 against, 35 abstentions, 21 absent.

Those voting with the US and Israel were, Guatemala, Honduras, Marshall Islands. Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, and Togo.

I get the feeling that the rest of the world is just hoping that Trump will go away in 3 years or sooner, and not screw up the planet too badly as he exits. They're just waiting for the US to get back to 'normal'. As for the satirists, comedians, lampooners, they'll be making hay while the big orange sun shines.


One thing is to do a totally satyrical representation of someone, a public figure, like the CoroCoro magazine does of Trump in the Manga about primary school Trump. And that is totally negatie and biased, and so can be argued is not even a satire.

Other is you doing a strawman. And absolutely and horrible strawman. Where you show the Trump doing and saying something that is totally opposite of what he is, or at least of how he presented himself till now.
Do you know adding stuff up against a person that you hate, just for the objective of hating him more and have more reasons for hating him more.

You're saying that is a correct satire to saying that he is a chaos, hooliganism, Anarchism and vandalism. That is totally the opposite of how he presented himself in his nomination, in his politics and has president. And even before that when he was just a flamboyant rich business guy he showed to be the oppositeo those 3 characteristics.

You understand that he presented himself in his politic life as the candidate of "Law and Order"(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cARKtHYTz-Q, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POLyfs-TD1s). And that is why he talked about the border and iligal immigrants, the "Blue Life Matters" and Improve the military.
The Candidate of Religious freedom and devotion(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVAOACazEEg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VN1hH7fkg0). And that is why you have the stuff in Israel, and a ton of Executive Orders and Laws about Religious Freedom.
The Candidate of "Security(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkIKoCpJZ7c, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cAThfL5RV4). And that is why you have the talks about the 2nd Ammendment, Immigration Ban, War on ISIS and Terrorism and the Wall.

Even if you don't agree with nothing of that and believe it is all horrible. How can you believe that has any degree to do with Chaos, Hooliganism, Anarchim and Vandalism?

How is in the manga him saying fudge everybody and do horrible stuff and destroy/attack property and other people(something that the opposition did after his swearing -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7IL7_QIW9U, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGUCq5fpMGo) anything representative of him. And how is it satire of him?

A satire would be him telling the entire world about defending the world(it could even use his exageration in saying stuff "I'm the only person, and me alone, that can destroy that meteorite"), but in private being totally different. Or doing actions that he thinks will do better defense, but in fact does the opposite.
Something like that would be a satire, this is total mischaracterization of a person, diffamation, and a strawmaning)

About israel. Do you give any friend a constant monetary(or any other kind) help, and that friend repays your gratitude by screwing you about an action that yours to take and that he really has nothing to get involved, but you still keep giving the constant help?
If for example I had a friend that I let stay in my home totally rent free and than he and all of my(and his friends) gang up on me to say bad about and against my decision of going after a girl I like, than you certainly know I would kick is ass so fast out of my house.
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Guile



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 505
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:08 am Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
.......Considering that BLM wasn't responsible for the shooting in Dallas or the one in Baton Rouge a few days later what was he supposed to say about them? There's also the fact he criticized some protesters (which would include BLM) in the same speech for being occasionally being somewhat overzealous.


Something I never understood about American media is how come if a white guy hits and kills a woman in Charlottesville, it's representative of the white protestors or rightwingers or altright or whatever, but when a Muslim ran a truck through NYC in the name of Allah, or a black man specifically says he is targetting white cops for the death of those black people they are treated as non-representatives of Islam and BLM with zero accountability?
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Weazul-chan



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 623
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:48 am Reply with quote
Guile wrote:
BadNewsBlues wrote:
.......Considering that BLM wasn't responsible for the shooting in Dallas or the one in Baton Rouge a few days later what was he supposed to say about them? There's also the fact he criticized some protesters (which would include BLM) in the same speech for being occasionally being somewhat overzealous.


Something I never understood about American media is how come if a white guy hits and kills a woman in Charlottesville, it's representative of the white protestors or rightwingers or altright or whatever, but when a Muslim ran a truck through NYC in the name of Allah, or a black man specifically says he is targetting white cops for the death of those black people they are treated as non-representatives of Islam and BLM with zero accountability?
are you really asking why if a section of white America does something bad it's considered representative of that section of white America but if a section or individual of black of Muslim Americans do something it's not representative of all black or Muslim Americans?

let me ask you something - why is it okay to consider all Muslims are terrorists because some radical Muslims are but not okay to consider Westboro Baptist as representative of all American Christianity? that's more of an apples to apples thing than what you're talking about.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 16504
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:49 am Reply with quote
bigivel wrote:
You understand that he presented himself in his politic life as the candidate of "Law and Order"(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cARKtHYTz-Q, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POLyfs-TD1s). And that is why he talked about the border and iligal immigrants, the "Blue Life Matters" and Improve the military.

And yet he's also under accusation of sexual misbehavior (multiple counts) and possible improper dealings with Russia. Whether any of that ultimately proves to be verifiable, Can you understand why people would look at him askance as a "law and order" president with those kind of persistent allegations hanging over him?

Besides, nasty parodies have come with being POTUS since long, long before Trump's turn came up; they're almost as old as the U.S. is, in fact. This is just the latest round.

Now, a caution for you and everyone else: let's not let this stray into a general political debate. Keep the thread content focused on being at least peripherally relevant to the article being responded to.
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bigivel



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 536
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:30 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
bigivel wrote:
You understand that he presented himself in his politic life as the candidate of "Law and Order"(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cARKtHYTz-Q, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POLyfs-TD1s). And that is why he talked about the border and iligal immigrants, the "Blue Life Matters" and Improve the military.

And yet he's also under accusation of sexual misbehavior (multiple counts) and possible improper dealings with Russia. Whether any of that ultimately proves to be verifiable, Can you understand why people would look at him askance as a "law and order" president with those kind of persistent allegations hanging over him?

Besides, nasty parodies have come with being POTUS since long, long before Trump's turn came up; they're almost as old as the U.S. is, in fact. This is just the latest round.

Now, a caution for you and everyone else: let's not let this stray into a general political debate. Keep the thread content focused on being at least peripherally relevant to the article being responded to.


Note how the accusations is not him, and how he presents himself. But others saying that he did or does such and such. (NOTE: He isn't under sexual misbehavior accusations. The people that accused him, all dropped theirs accusations. Recently returned to give another jab at that fact(that they accused him in the past) and already dessapeared again).
And also note how the satire had nothing to do with any of those accusations.
Basically what I'm saying is that it totally missed any point.

What is the connection between those accusations and him saying in public, and in that manner, what is said in the series?

Is one thing to people to believe that Bush is a coward and a moron, and making a coward and a moron character as a satire. Other is you having a person that you hate and think is an idiot and danger, and then get a character that is sadistic and vandal. You see. Should be Coward + Moron => Excessive Cowardize + Excessive Moronic. But what you got was. Coward + Moron => Sadist + Vandal.

If you can show me anything that people complained and/or that Trump shown that would allow for a parody that would end in this story end result, I will concede.

The point is that the author got everything wrong, it shows his writing incompetence(already shown in the end of Gantz and Hen), that with so much hate and complain material from the people that oppose Trump, that he still wasn't capable of picking one of those characteristics and use as parody of Trump, nope he missed and got wrong characteristics or he just deliberatly picked the wrong ones.
.
When I first read that part for in the manga, as soon Trump appeared I knew it would be a negative satyrical take of him. And I like to see them, and so I was trying to see if the author would be able to make it not just satire but also funny. When I ended reading that part I was choked, choked that he basically invented another person, added negative to the extreme characteristics to him and then called it Donald J. Trump. I couldn't believe it. And it wasn't even funny. The only thing in common between the real life one, and the shown in the manga is the outrage reaction of his opposers.
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BadNewsBlues



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:10 am Reply with quote
Guile wrote:


Something I never understood about American media is how come if a white guy hits and kills a woman in Charlottesville, it's representative of the white protestors or rightwingers


Because if the white guy throws their lot in with groups that generally (and frequently) calls for violence against people for specific things or regularly engages in hate speech toward those same people (with those very groups being exclusively white) it kind of becomes hard to not call a spade a spade.

Add on the facts that Trump unhesitantly accepted an endorsement from a former Grand Wizard of the KKK while making up a lazy excuse for why he would do this, along with the fact that Trump won a number of states playing to people's fears and prejudice's (which he's still doing to justify some of his policies and rhetroic) doesn't help either.


Guile wrote:

but when a Muslim ran a truck through NYC in the name of Allah, or a black man specifically says he is targetting white cops for the death of those black people they are treated as non-representatives of Islam and BLM with zerpo accountability?


Because not everyone news outlet is Fox News or Brietbart and believes in shilling dumb narratives that are purposely designed to make people fearful and mistrustful of group that poses no significant threat to them. It also helps that whenever these things happen these groups go put of their way to condemn these acts or distance themselves from them.
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Guile



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:31 am Reply with quote
Weazul-chan wrote:
let me ask you something - why is it okay to consider all Muslims are terrorists because some radical Muslims are but not okay to consider Westboro Baptist as representative of all American Christianity? that's more of an apples to apples thing than what you're talking about.


Does Westboro drive trucks through shopping centers? I don't know, I've never heard of them doing anything other than picketing. I am not be the most unbiased person to ask because we have Muslim attacks almost every week here.
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luffypirate



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:22 am Reply with quote
They could have done a better job impersonating his voice.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:57 pm Reply with quote
Guile wrote:


Does Westboro drive trucks through shopping centers? I don't know, I've never heard of them doing anything other than picketing. I am not be the most unbiased person to ask because we have Muslim attacks almost every week here.


Is here the U.S.? where we don't have attacks that actually succeed every week? the U.K.? which by their own admission their workloads makes it hard to prevent most of these attacks, or somewhere around Asia/Africa where other Muslims are typically the victims of these extremists?
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