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Zin5ki
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 6680
Location: London, UK
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:39 am
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Quote: | In addition, he noted that people criticized his mention of the "otaku vs subculture" conflict. |
What baffles me is the notion that otaku activities can be categorised as something other than a subculture. Surely, dedicated anime hobbyists form as prominent a subculture as anything one might find in Japan. I'm left unsure as to the nature of the actual distinction being drawn.
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Nyron
Joined: 16 May 2013
Posts: 161
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:04 am
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the best thing that could ever happen to anime as a medium would it be if every single show that came out got this specific critic really really offended.
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samuelp
Industry Insider
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 2231
Location: San Antonio, USA
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:57 am
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Putting the merits of this particular criticism aside (if it even had any), I think this is going to be something we'll see more and more.
If you think of it from your typical Japanese otaku perspective, the anime industry has been nearly exclusively catering directly to them for more than a decade now.
Only in the past year or two has foreign money really started to change that in any perceptible way (like if you recall how Crunchyroll had some minor influence on Re:Creators), and that's just going to become more and more obvious over the next few years. A backlash from the audience that had previously been catered to should be expected.
I'm not sure it's xenophobia exactly... More like a reaction to loss of power in the market. I suspect a lot of it will be expressed in xenophobic language though, like "Anime should be for the Japanese" and things like that...
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jppcouto
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 103
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:16 am
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Nyron wrote: | the best thing that could ever happen to anime as a medium would it be if every single show that came out got this specific critic really really offended. |
Exactly! That is in fact one of the goals of Devilman: to offend the viewer. And I think that's wonderful. The show isn't afraid to convey themes and experiences that the majority of the animes whouldn't try to do.
Regarding the critic guy's opinion, we shouldn't bother to listen him. You see, if an anime is just for otakus, there is always someone who gonna complain. And it seems, the reverse situation (devilman's case) can happen too, which is totally unbelievable. What is the problem with an anime where the target audience is the West? I mean, it was released for Netflix in 190 countries for a reason.
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dark_bozu
Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 208
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:18 am
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What a joke of a critic.
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Dont
Joined: 16 May 2017
Posts: 11
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:30 am
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Really really enjoyed Devilman Crybaby. It defn reminded me of the good old days of Kemonozume. Man what if this gets a season 2. What would it be about?
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blaizevincent
Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 407
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:36 am
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I gave the show the full score. It's a masterpiece.
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donhumberto
Joined: 19 Jan 2017
Posts: 807
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:53 am
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belldandy.99 wrote: | Let me translate.
Basically he is saying that the anime does not embrace japanese otaku, meaning it lacks japanese otaku pandering = shameful moe and fanservice and waifus just for the hell of it in order to appeal to hardcore japanese otaku. |
+1000
I couldn't have said it better, really. Oh, boy, if anime needs something right now is more stuff like Devilman. Something that can be enjoyed by people who actually care about things like plot, artstyle, character development... concepts that seem to be totally alien to the moe-obsessed japanese otaku who live and die by their isekai/moe/imouto/waifu trash.
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belldandy.99
Joined: 16 Jan 2018
Posts: 11
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:01 am
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Lord Oink wrote: |
Kinda like how Aku no Hana was ridiculed for the atrocious art and animation, screwing fans of the manga out of a good adaption. |
This reminded me of Aku no hana indeed, and nope, it was not about art style, that was the excuse ( in fact that art style was very similar to what Yuuasa-san´s style) the problem is that moe otaku were DENIED, they were expecting lots of pandering and they were traumatized basically that they were totally denied and evidently and art style that was not intended for them, evidently for them it was horrible. Kemonozume art style was criticized as well, many calling it lazy bad atrocious etc etc, it was very unique and personally loved it, same as Aku no hana.
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testament956
Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 10
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:38 am
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This guy is basically saying that because the show isn’t pandering to the Japanese viewer then it’s total garbage. I’m assuming this guy doesn’t like foreigners very much.
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Starbuckets
Joined: 02 Aug 2016
Posts: 87
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:54 am
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So if I got this right, this Kurose guy is just mad because Crybaby doesn't try its damnest to remain as niche and alienating to non-Japanese people as possible? Forgive my french but fudge him sideways.
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Enturax
Joined: 07 Jun 2015
Posts: 220
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:58 am
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I'd punch that "reviewer" in the face for wanting a cliche'd Anime with ecchi, big eyes, unrealistic and repetitive acting and cliche'd choreography. F him.
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TheAncientOne
Joined: 06 Oct 2010
Posts: 1870
Location: USA (mid-south)
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:52 am
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samuelp wrote: |
Only in the past year or two has foreign money really started to change that in any perceptible way (like if you recall how Crunchyroll had some minor influence on Re:Creators), ... |
I don't recall that, and it seems unlikely to me, given that it ended up an Anime Strike series. Perhaps you were thinking of another series with "Re:" in the title?
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onseneutopic
Joined: 17 Jan 2018
Posts: 2
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:57 am
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Lord Oink wrote: |
belldandy.99 wrote: | The truth of the matter is that Masaaki YUASA's works have always had a more western appeal, that is undeniable, you just need to check his works, so criticizing him for not pandering to japanese otakus standards at this point is like the guy does not even know YUASA-san. |
Maybe that's a factor. It's based on a work by Go Nagai, who is known for being quite critical of America and its media output. Imagine if someone took a mecha anime staple from Go Nagai like Mazinger and turned it into some Pacific Rim rubbish. I could see it being perceieved as an insult. |
Devilman, at least, rather than being critical of America, talked about war as a whole, criticizing the incompetence of all parties. And Crybaby is just as critical.
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Coup d'État
Joined: 29 Dec 2017
Posts: 179
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:23 am
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samuelp wrote: |
If you think of it from your typical Japanese otaku perspective, the anime industry has been nearly exclusively catering directly to them for more than a decade now.
Only in the past year or two has foreign money really started to change that in any perceptible way (like if you recall how Crunchyroll had some minor influence on Re:Creators), and that's just going to become more and more obvious over the next few years. A backlash from the audience that had previously been catered to should be expected.
I'm not sure it's xenophobia exactly... More like a reaction to loss of power in the market. I suspect a lot of it will be expressed in xenophobic language though, like "Anime should be for the Japanese" and things like that... |
I think that's exactly what happend with the fallout from 'gamergate'. One group percieved a medium to be 'theirs' and felt threathend when it became clear there is actually a bigger audience that matters now, too.
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