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yuna49
Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 3804
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 Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:37 pm
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| Quote: | | TV is still the best place for people to stumble on to new anime. |
I would think word-of-mouth plays an even greater role among those 8-17 year-olds who we are presumably discussing here. My daughter and I started watching anime after a friend lent her Princess Mononoke. Her and her friends' addiction to Pokemon did not extend to other anime series.
According to Nielsen data, television viewing has plunged among 12-17 year-olds from about 20.5 hours per week in 2013-2014 to about 15.5 hours per week in 2015-2016. That's a drop of about 25 percent in just two years. Viewing fell among kids 2-11 as well, but not as dramatically as among teens. Adults 18+ still watch about as much TV today as they did a few years ago.
https://www.tvb.org/Portals/0/media/file/Persons_Viewing_Trend.pdf
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Spawn29
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 551
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:58 pm
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CN was not the only channel to have anime back in the day since there was Starz, G4, Sci-Fi and sometimes HBO. Toonami is still around because of fans and casual people who don't follow anime on streaming sites. CN is probably the last channel on major TV to still care to have a late night anime block in this day of age.
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LUNI_TUNZ
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 809
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:36 am
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| Quote: | | Yo-Kai Watch got a big push. Merch in all mainstream retailers, high profile video game releases, English manga, promotional airings on the main Disney Channel, accessible video-on-demand options, Happy Meal promos, even a limited theatrical screening for the first film. English speaking kids just didn't take to it the way those involved hoped they would. My take on it is that Yo-Kai Watch is a little too atypical compared to what's been hugely successful with kids in the past. Pokemon, Beyblade, Sailor Moon, Yu-Gi-Oh!, etc. all have big "be the best in the world/save the world" kind of plots. Yo-Kai Watch storylines are significantly more mundane than that. |
Yokai Watch also seems very specifically Japanese, since the concept of Yokai doesn't really exist in America. Pokémon on the other hand isn't really specific to any real world location, past Gen I.
All this talk of Pretty Cure, I'm honestly surprised a push was never made to localize Shugo Chara. I mean, I don't know if it's massively popular in Japan or not, but it seeems like it could have fit on some kids network easy.
Also, Nick hasn't acquired anime in awhile, but they have licensed a few foreign productions, and immediately proceeded to do nothing with such as Winx Club and Miraculous Ladybug. Nick did so bad with Ladybug, they aired it one day a week, never (or barely) reran it, and let it slip to Netflix almost entirely within the same year.
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ninjamitsuki
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 590
Location: Anywhere (Thanks, technology)
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:28 am
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| EricJ2 wrote: |
| ninjamitsuki wrote: | | Adult Swim loves anime. That's why they show it. "cus anime is teh s uck" was making fun of trolls that would post on the forums saying that phrase .
Everyone gently ribs their hobbies every now and then. |
And then you have things like "Perfect Hair Forever" which seems to be one long Swim-style stoner rant at what geek-bashers on the more crack-open-a-window side of CN's programming THINK anime is: DBZ cliche's of guys with weird hair.
Again, wonder where CN got that lasting impression...More fodder for the "Majin Buu killed anime on CN" theory"? 
Swim may air anime (or at least fight serials) and angry-pottymouth stoner comedy, but it's pretty clear one is the favorite child over the other. Somebody sure fell out of network favor, fast. |
You're completely negating the fact that [AS] FUNDED The Big O season 2 and the upcoming FLCL reboot, is still the only TV channel showing anime at all, and have Spike and Inuyasha on their mural, just because of one show made over a decade ago that parodied anime? Hell, Perfect Hair Forever is generally well-liked among anime fans and was a big influence for YuGiOh Abriged, which kicked off an entire genre of fan parody.
[AS] airs anime because they love it. During the Adult Swim action era, said anime got abysmally low ratings but they kept doing it anyway out of love for the medium. If they hated anime, they wouldn't be spending so much money on it.
Last edited by ninjamitsuki on Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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CCTakato
Joined: 24 Jul 2015
Posts: 514
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:45 am
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| yuna49 wrote: | | Questions like these always seem to bring out the people who see services like CN and AS as entryways into anime. That might have been true for them ten or twenty years ago, but I would argue that in a world where nearly every episode of every show is free to watch legally or illegally online, television networks have much less significance.
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I seem to recall Funimation stating many times before on ANNCast that the Toonami broadcasts are still their biggest source for creating new anime fans. While Crunchyroll makes TV less of a necessity, I imagine it's hard to find if you don't already know what anime is whereas most Americans still know what Cartoon Network is.
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Lord Oink
Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 876
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:28 am
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| LUNI_TUNZ wrote: | |
Pokémon on the other hand isn't really specific to any real world location, past Gen I. |
Literally all the regions in Pocket Monsters are based on real-world locations. Japan for Kanto, Jouto, Houen, and Sinnoh. New York for Isshu, France for Kalos, Alola for Hawaii. The reason Pokemon worked was it was first. Everything to come after it here was branded a rip off and failed. From Digimon to Yokai Watch. Same with Yu-Gi-Oh. All card game anime was deemed a Yu-Gi-Oh rip off and ridiculed, and failed. Same with Power Rangers and toku in general. The American market is very fickle. Only one franchise per idea is allowed here, for some reason. First come, first serve.
| ninjamitsuki wrote: | | Hell, Perfect Hair Forever is generally well-liked among anime fans |
[citation needed]. I don't like it, and I've never really met a big anime fan who did.
| Quote: | | and was a big influence for YuGiOh Abriged, which kicked off an entire genre of fan parody. |
That's not a good thing, that just made anime more of a laughing stock in the west. You can't even mention certain shows like Yu-Gi-Oh or Dragonball on mainstream sites without people who think they're being witty and original by quoting lines and jokes from those things.
As for the issue itself, I've worked with teenagers. The amount of stuff they learn from the internet tells me TV is pretty on the back end on what they're exposed to. I won't say Funi and Toonami are lying out of self interest to stay relevent, but maybe they're talking specific demographics. The kids I know were making Ugandan Knuckles jokes the same week the meme happened. If a show hits popularity like Devilman or Attack on Titan did back in the day, they'll be exposed to it. Internet/streaming is definitely how they learn about stuff. TV exposure is probably for really little and really old people, or maybe poor/technically challenged people who aren't internet savvy.
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jr240483
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4374
Location: New York City,New York,USA
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:43 am
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| Codeanime93 wrote: | | And even Toonami/Cartoon Network has changed mostly, the whole golden age of afternoon (albeit edited) anime blocking on that channel from the late 90s to the early 00s has dried up and been reduced to only one night late night on Saturday. Even Adult Swim use to play more anime during the week, well that's been reduced as well. Well that's changing times for you. |
true. they use to have on the midnight run block. now in this incarnation the block is exclusively on saturday which is a good move since a majority of their demograph are at home on the weekends.
also the other theory that answerman might not have though of is the VAs might have a say at this as well. for one thing most of the well known anime VAs have more or less been the focal point of CN for a while. specifically yuri lowenthal who did teenage ben tenninson , and especially steve blum whose pretty much the face of the toonami block as TOM.
you have to suspect that these VAs will have some kind of saying when it comes to what anime shows on CN. especially in blum's case.
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DerekL1963
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Joined: 14 Jan 2015
Posts: 1113
Location: Puget Sound
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:50 pm
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| jr240483 wrote: | | you have to suspect that these VAs will have some kind of saying when it comes to what anime shows on CN. especially in blum's case. |
VA's are hired talent, not executives.
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CCTakato
Joined: 24 Jul 2015
Posts: 514
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:56 pm
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| Lord Oink wrote: | |
Literally all the regions in Pocket Monsters are based on real-world locations. Japan for Kanto, Jouto, Houen, and Sinnoh. New York for Isshu, France for Kalos, Alola for Hawaii. The reason Pokemon worked was it was first. Everything to come after it here was branded a rip off and failed. From Digimon to Yokai Watch. Same with Yu-Gi-Oh. All card game anime was deemed a Yu-Gi-Oh rip off and ridiculed, and failed. Same with Power Rangers and toku in general. The American market is very fickle. Only one franchise per idea is allowed here, for some reason. First come, first serve.
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I'm not sure what your basing this claim on that none of the kids anime that came after Pokemon were successful. Digimon Tri is a big seller for Shout Factory and they're still releasing the movies in U.S. theaters. Yugioh isn't as big as it used to be but there's still a lot of fans that play the card game, the anniversary movie seemed to do modestly well, and Yugioh is still big enough that Twitch did a major live stream of the series recently.
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Lord Oink
Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 876
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:27 pm
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| CCTakato wrote: | | I'm not sure what your basing this claim on that none of the kids anime that came after Pokemon were successful. Digimon Tri is a big seller for Shout Factory and they're still releasing the movies in U.S. theaters. Yugioh isn't as big as it used to be but there's still a lot of fans that play the card game, the anniversary movie seemed to do modestly well, and Yugioh is still big enough that Twitch did a major live stream of the series recently. |
Think you misunderstood me. I meant YGO took off in America, but every anime card game franchise after it hasn't. Duel Masters failed (twice), Battle Spirits failed, and the like. English Vanguard is still around by the sole virtue of its primary English market is Singapore and the Philippines, not America.
And it depends what you qualify as success. Digimon is being released, sure, but its not even close to mainstream anymore. Xros Wars dub was cancelled halfway through, and Appmon has no plans to air here. Tri's limited run and success is what you'd expect out of a late night anime, not a mainstream daytime kids franchise. Outside a few budget games and nostalgia movies, the franchise is over in the US. New kids aren't going to get into it
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FLCLGainax
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:56 pm
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| BadNewsBlues wrote: |
| EricJ2 wrote: | | That led to airing Tenchi Muyo OAV with "digital bikinis", |
Yeah to this day I never understood why they ran the edited versions of Tenchi and Outlaw Star on the Saturday block even when they didn't need to and it clashed with the other stuff. But hey at least it's better than what they did with Lupin where there was topless nudity but lacking certain details. |
I don't think they could've gotten away with airing the unedited versions back then. Adult Swim was still editing Inuyasha for things like youkai breasts and Trigun had much of its gunplay edited out of the show. Tenchi's sauna episode would still have to be censored today if they showed it late at night.
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CCTakato
Joined: 24 Jul 2015
Posts: 514
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:27 pm
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| Lord Oink wrote: | |
Think you misunderstood me. I meant YGO took off in America, but every anime card game franchise after it hasn't. Duel Masters failed (twice), Battle Spirits failed, and the like. English Vanguard is still around by the sole virtue of its primary English market is Singapore and the Philippines, not America.
And it depends what you qualify as success. Digimon is being released, sure, but its not even close to mainstream anymore. Xros Wars dub was cancelled halfway through, and Appmon has no plans to air here. Tri's limited run and success is what you'd expect out of a late night anime, not a mainstream daytime kids franchise. Outside a few budget games and nostalgia movies, the franchise is over in the US. New kids aren't going to get into it |
Vanguard was never aired on American TV or marketed heavily to the U.S. to begin with. For all the failed shows you cited, you have other shows like Monster Rancher and Medabots that did pretty decently when they aired on Fox Kids. Bakugan lasted several seasons and even had an original season created that only aired in North America and is now having a new revival series produced. Beyblade likewise seems to be doing well enough that they keep making more seasons of it. Whether any individual shows have any lasting staying power, the monster battle genre is still probably the most popular kid friendly genre of anime in the U.S. and the genre American toy companies and kids networks invest in the most. What late night anime do you see getting the kind of theatrical releases Digimon Tri has been getting or sales in offline mainstream stores like Walmart? Just because you might personally scoff at monster battle anime as Pokemon rip offs doesn't make it so that these shows are not successful in the U.S. nor have you presented any evidence so far that TV doesn't matter anymore to the success of anime or that Funimation and Toonami are somehow lying about their cultural relevance.
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LUNI_TUNZ
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 809
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:28 pm
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| Lord Oink wrote: |
| LUNI_TUNZ wrote: | |
Pokémon on the other hand isn't really specific to any real world location, past Gen I. |
Literally all the regions in Pocket Monsters are based on real-world locations. Japan for Kanto, Jouto, Houen, and Sinnoh. New York for Isshu, France for Kalos, Alola for Hawaii. |
My point was Gen I was the only one they explicitly used names from Real World Locations such as Kanto, and Lt. Surge's nickname of "the Lightning American."
| jr240483 wrote: | | you have to suspect that these VAs will have some kind of saying when it comes to what anime shows on CN. especially in blum's case. |
Blum is great as TOM, we all Love Blum, but he's not actually TOM. Unless he has some sort of executive role at CN we don't know about he has nothing to do with what airs on Toonami, he might be able to bend Jason Demarco's ear about a show or two, because I assume they have a good relationship, but that won't guarantee it a network spot.
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jr240483
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4374
Location: New York City,New York,USA
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:26 am
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| DerekL1963 wrote: | |
VA's are hired talent, not executives. |
uh , i know that much! and usually VAs wont get any input at all.
however EVER toonami faithful fan , including myself KNOW FOR A FACT that the block is a whole different animal and blum pretty much put that block on the map as TOM in its first run and back again when he "colorfully" announced that it was coming back during CN's milestone anniversary.
i mean you of all people would have to know that there would be ZERO chance of toonami ever coming back on the airwaves if steve blum didn't returned as TOM, and its due to this fact , i can really see AND i wouldn't be surprised at all that while on closed doors, they give him any insights and ask him of any suggestions on the block in order to keep and maintain its success!
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ninjamitsuki
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 590
Location: Anywhere (Thanks, technology)
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:09 am
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| Lord Oink wrote: |
| LUNI_TUNZ wrote: | |
Pokémon on the other hand isn't really specific to any real world location, past Gen I. |
Literally all the regions in Pocket Monsters are based on real-world locations. Japan for Kanto, Jouto, Houen, and Sinnoh. New York for Isshu, France for Kalos, Alola for Hawaii. The reason Pokemon worked was it was first. Everything to come after it here was branded a rip off and failed. From Digimon to Yokai Watch. Same with Yu-Gi-Oh. All card game anime was deemed a Yu-Gi-Oh rip off and ridiculed, and failed. Same with Power Rangers and toku in general. The American market is very fickle. Only one franchise per idea is allowed here, for some reason. First come, first serve.
| ninjamitsuki wrote: | | Hell, Perfect Hair Forever is generally well-liked among anime fans |
[citation needed]. I don't like it, and I've never really met a big anime fan who did.
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I guess some friends (all anime fans) that convinced me to give the show a chance in the first place don't speak for the entire anime fandom, you're right. I initially hated the show but after giving it another chance I found some of the jokes manages to get a chuckle out of me... At times. It's essentially just Aqua Teen style late night shitposting with a bad "how to draw manga" art style.
| Quote: | | and was a big influence for YuGiOh Abriged, which kicked off an entire genre of fan parody. |
| Lord Oink wrote: | |
That's not a good thing, that just made anime more of a laughing stock in the west. You can't even mention certain shows like Yu-Gi-Oh or Dragonball on mainstream sites without people who think they're being witty and original by quoting lines and jokes from those things.
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That wasn't their intention, though, Abridged Series are made by fans of the show in question, for an audience of fans, they're in the same category as AMVs or fandubs. The point I was trying to make is that fans tend to poke fun at things they're a fan of, and that some sarcastic bumpers and a show that ended over a decade ago isn't ~proof~ that the only TV station to show anime somehow hates anime even though it's been explained time and time again that it's quite the opposite. Though yeah I'm not so good at words. It's just... This guy sounds like he's been cryogenically frozen since like 2006 or something.
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