×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
NEWS: Tokyopop Restarts Manga Licensing With Konohana Kitan, Hanger, Futaribeya


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ZeetherKID77



Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 980
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:14 am Reply with quote
daishi808 wrote:
Agent355 wrote:

I never read that letter before. Wow. First of all, trying to make Initial D into a property for kids on par with Speed Racer was a huge miscalculation on their part, and a misunderstanding of the market. I don't think Initial D ever ended up airing on U.S. TV.
Second of all, how will White-Out and felt tipped pens correct edited sex scenes? Very Happy



It's for the better. Have you heard the TokyoPop english dub? Terrible.

They had a good cast for it (Steve Blum as Keisuke sounded alright from what I've seen) but it was ruined with dialogue like "YO, TAK!!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 13540
Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:42 am Reply with quote
One thing to commend TP about is that it was their version of "Fruits Basket" that sold over 2 million copies in North America. The only other manga I know of that sold 1+ million copies in North America was "Naruto".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Weazul-chan



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 625
Location: Michigan
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:11 pm Reply with quote
Kadmos1 wrote:
One thing to commend TP about is that it was their version of "Fruits Basket" that sold over 2 million copies in North America. The only other manga I know of that sold 1+ million copies in North America was "Naruto".
but they also released Fruits Basket at a snail's pace. I wound up importing the Chuang Yi English version from Australia thru ebay because they completely released it well ahead of TP (and someone online whose knowledge of Japanese I trusted said the CY translation was better, slightly too literal in a few spots but overall better). man those were some nice books, even had dust jackets on them. I wish American manga releases were that nice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
lys



Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 1006
Location: mitten-state
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:56 pm Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:
VB Rose is a sore spot with me. It was a really engaging series. I would have gladly given up on all the gold foil if they had finished the series. I think it had only a couple of volumes to go. However, the owner wanted to make a movie and the manga business had to go.

Sorry, friend. I became a huge fan of Banri Hidaka through that series and two others released around the same time by CMX (another company with great people and excellent (though probably unprofitable) series, closed abruptly at the whims of higher-ups... that was a rough couple of years). I'm fortunate to know some Japanese, so I was able to import volumes and finish series that way, at least. Now it's the author herself who dropped off the face of the planet and left her newer series hanging... :)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alan45
Village Elder



Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 9812
Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:22 pm Reply with quote
@lys

I was also following Banri Hidaka. Her Tears of a Lamb was at least finished here. I Hate You More Than Anything was left unfinished by CMX even though the predictable end was shown in V.B. Rose.

CMX had, if anything, even less justification for closing shop than TokyoPop did. As part of DC Comics they could have completed the series they started without noticeable effect on the bottom line. It was obvious that someone pulled the plug on CMX without any notice to the people working there. They were licensing and soliciting new titles right up to just before the end.


Last edited by Alan45 on Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:50 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:08 am Reply with quote
Ouran High School Dropout wrote:
Lastly, can any true manga lover out there tell me if TP's old output was uniformly bad, or was it a title-by-title, hit-or-miss affair?


Some of them were actually quite nice, like Sgt. Frog and Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi. And the former was what kicked off all the demand for a Sgt. Frog dub, then a lot of demand for Toonami to acquire it and broadcast it. Despite all of the hate directed at Tokyopop, they were actually an industry first in keeping manga from right-to-left and was the company most dedicated to fishing up old classics no one else would touch (I have a few volumes of Cyborg 009 from Tokyopop, for instance, a series I doubt anyone else will ever visit again).

Over time though, Tokyopop, particularly its president Stu Levy, got complacent and let their competitors Viz, Dark Horse, Yen Press, and others overtake them in quality. Tokyopop, more than any of the other companies, was a business first, publisher second. They picked up licenses and handled them based on what could potentially bring the most money into the company and how they could best do that. That's why they have the reputation of dropping series, poor paper quality, and rush translations. Tokyopop, also more than their competitors, was also very focused on strengthening the company's brand recognition. You can see it in how the Tokyopop logo and icon were larger than that of any other publisher, and always in bright red so as to be recognizable. Any Tokyopop presence at a convention's exhibition hall will have its logo plastered everywhere.

That's why I'm feeling more optimistic about this than most other people who read this article: Tokyopop wanders to wherever the money is. Now, the money in manga seems to be mostly in faithful translations for readers savvy in Japanese culture, meaning there's a good chance modern Tokyopop manga will be exactly that. Notice that the Tokyopop logo is nowhere in sight for any of these covers.

TheAnimeRevolutionizer wrote:
So, how about that OEL Manga publishing bit? I've been under a rock since 2008 and I was somewhat away from the collapse of Borders and Tokyopop. That's a curious bit from me, because I was hoping something would come out of it.


If you're talking about books that would be placed in the manga section of a bookstore that was always in English, that kind of fizzled out after Tokyopop went under. Viz tried it a bit (Dark Horse and the others didn't have to as they were also in non-manga publishing), but never to the exten that Tokyopop would do, like releasing Family Guy and such.

In its place, there has been a growing presence of indie comics (best standout examples being Scott Pilgrim and Irredeemable) and more big-publisher American comics released as volume sets. IDW also burst onto the scene in the early 2010's and is now THE name with licensed-property comics, even nabbing the Sonic the Hedgehog comics license from Archie.

That is, if you want to be a comic book writer and illustrator, your best bet now is to look to your own country's comic book publishing. And if you just want to read comics of something you've been enjoying on TV, in games, as toys, or on the big screen, IDW is your way to go (and Boom! Comics, to a lesser extent).

Kalessin wrote:
That's not even the real risk IMHO. It's not like they folded previously when they dropped everything in the mud and ran away. They've been alive this whole time - just not doing much useful. As I understand it, they did have some financial problems but not of the sort that they had to close up shop before. It was just Stu deciding that he didn't want to continue what they were doing. And he could decide the same again and just drop any series they're releasing.

It would be one thing if Tokypop were run by a sane person who tried his best to run a company in a profitable manner and produce products that pleased their customers so they would come back for more, but things went badly, so they went out of business. It's quite another case when it's run by someone like an egocentric nutjob like Stu Levy.


Levy is insane, but I think he was well aware of the financial status of his company. Tokyopop's competitors, particularly Viz, are committed to finishing a series, but that's because they are run by people who genuinely love manga and will push on with a series, even at a loss. It takes some really bad sales for a company like Viz to cut a series off before it ends. Tokyopop, however, was run under the principle of "know when to fold 'em." That is, if a series's sales were sinking and it was deemed no longer profitable, Tokyopop would just cancel it.

It may be Tokyopop was not as good at selling to general readers the way the other companies are, though, and that those other publishers may have been able to keep a series profitable for longer than Tokyopop could.

Alan45 wrote:
TheAnimeRevolutionizer

The problem with the OEL market is that Tokyopop signed newbie writers to what could be considered a "yellow dog contract" (it shouldn't happen to even a yellow dog). My understanding is that they had to completely relinquish the rights to any work Tokyopop published. Tokyopop gave up on the OEL market long before they closed.


It was an incredibly exploitative contract, more so than even other contracts in publication of literature. I WOULD say that one such exploitative trait I remember seeing, reading its contract (I was considering entering the program myself, but I decided not to after reading it) was that the OEL authors were not allowed to take Tokyopop to court or enter any direct disputes with them. Instead they would have to come to Los Angeles (where Tokyopop was headquartered), on their own dime, and let an arbitration company there (well, here because I live in Los Angeles) handle it instead. This is not the same thing as taking someone to court, as arbitrators are private and aren't bound by the same rules as courts.

I WOULD say that, except that Toykopop truly was ahead of its time in that regard, because now arbitration is widespread in all sorts of contracts and license agreements, as arbitration is advantageous to the company.

Alan45 wrote:
MX had, if anything, even less justification for closing shop than TokyoPop did. As part of DC Comics they could have completed the series they started without noticeable effect on the bottom line. It was obvious that someone pulled the plug on CMX without any notice to the people working there. They were licensing and soliciting new titles right up to just before the end.


Unfortunately, that "someone" was likely a new face at the executive level who decided to wipe the department out to replace it with something they really, really want to do. When a series (whether in print or on TV) run by an American/Canadian company suddenly ends with no clear reason behind it, odds are it's because there's been a change in ownership or management that wants to put its thumbprint on the company.

And it's more unfortunate because parts of the entertainment industry is based on the thumbprint model. I learned this firsthand when I worked in movies: High-ranking people in big studios tend not to take seriously any writer, director, or artist who, when given charge of a pre-existing franchise or company, remain TOO faithful to the original work and won't give it their own personal spin, because it's seen as a lack of initiative and assertiveness. That is, it comes across as, "This person has no style of their own; they can only ape other people's styles." For this reason, adding such a work to your portfolio can actually harm your chances (though it depends on whom you present it to).

More likely, though, it's a clash of ideas at DC of where the company should go. I mean, there are already a lot of feuds over where particular series should go within DC and Marvel, with writers negating other writers' contributions through deaths, revivals, and other resets. Wouldn't be surprised if it happened at the executive level too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jirg1901



Joined: 03 Jun 2014
Posts: 150
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:35 am Reply with quote
The logo isn't on any covers because they're Japanese covers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:37 am Reply with quote
jirg1901 wrote:
The logo isn't on any covers because they're Japanese covers.


Nevertheless, they COULD have put the logo on there, but they haven't, at least not yet.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sakagami Tomoyo



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 940
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:40 am Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
That's why I'm feeling more optimistic about this than most other people who read this article: Tokyopop wanders to wherever the money is.

That makes me even less optimistic. The minute they think the money is no longer with any given series, or manga in general, they'll wander back away from it again.
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Nevertheless, they COULD have put the logo on there, but they haven't, at least not yet.

None of the US manga publishers ever slap their logos on the Japanese covers they use for promoting books before they've done a proper one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:10 pm Reply with quote
Sakagami Tomoyo wrote:
That makes me even less optimistic. The minute they think the money is no longer with any given series, or manga in general, they'll wander back away from it again.

None of the US manga publishers ever slap their logos on the Japanese covers they use for promoting books before they've done a proper one.


Perhaps the manga readers are kind of spoiled, then, as most other entertainment businesses don't work quite the same way as manga publishers do and are more like Tokyopop. (For instance, the Japanese manga publishers are at liberty to cut off a series whenever they want too. They just provide advance notice to the author.) At the same time, though, it's quite fortunate for manga readers that much of the industry is run by fans, willing to take a loss to give what their readers want.

Stu Levy is something of a character though. It can be hard to predict what he's going to do, and his business decisions can come across as rather spontaneous at times.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sakagami Tomoyo



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 940
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:34 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Perhaps the manga readers are kind of spoiled, then, as most other entertainment businesses don't work quite the same way as manga publishers do and are more like Tokyopop. (For instance, the Japanese manga publishers are at liberty to cut off a series whenever they want too. They just provide advance notice to the author.

The key difference between the US manga publishers and the Japanese manga publishers here is that when the Japanese pull the plug on a series, they provide notice to the author so that they can bring the series to some kind of conclusion. There might be plans the author had that will go unrealised, but there is no existing work unavailable to the readers and they do get some kind of closure. But with translations into other markets, no such luck.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:00 am Reply with quote
Sakagami Tomoyo wrote:
The key difference between the US manga publishers and the Japanese manga publishers here is that when the Japanese pull the plug on a series, they provide notice to the author so that they can bring the series to some kind of conclusion. There might be plans the author had that will go unrealised, but there is no existing work unavailable to the readers and they do get some kind of closure. But with translations into other markets, no such luck.


True, though that is something out of the control of any company but the original publisher. Nevertheless, my point remains, that even they can cut off a manga series if it proves to not sell, and while the authors get advance notice, the readers don't. (That, and we have series that just end without a conclusion. Takamagahara even began a new story arc on its final chapter, which was set up and suddenly stopped, though that may have been an act of protest from the author.)

I know it doesn't compare to suddenly ending a series the way Tokyopop does, though, and it would be much better were there some announcement that they're stopping. With series like Sgt. Frog, which go on forever, it's inevitable it would've had to stop somewhere. Even Viz has done so with very long runners that aren't One Piece or JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (and the latter seems to have stalled going into Part 4).

On another note, something I find pretty interesting is that Viz is remaining quite faithful to Tokyopop's graphic design decisions during Viz's publication of Sgt. Frog. I don't know if Viz has surpassed Tokyopop in how far into the series it's gone, but the style for the covers and spines have been remarkably consistent with Tokyopop's.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 2532
Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:11 am Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
On another note, something I find pretty interesting is that Viz is remaining quite faithful to Tokyopop's graphic design decisions during Viz's publication of Sgt. Frog. I don't know if Viz has surpassed Tokyopop in how far into the series it's gone, but the style for the covers and spines have been remarkably consistent with Tokyopop's.


Sgt. Frog is part of the Viz Selects digital-only line, right? Those are nothing but Viz re-releasing what TokyoPop did, right down to the same translations, lettering, covers, spines, & even number of volumes released. Not a single Viz Selects series that TokyoPop never finished has actually gotten "new" releases, because it's just a re-release line.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:18 pm Reply with quote
Ah, all right then. I noticed in my Viz newsletters that they kept popping up, so I wasn't sure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zensunni



Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 1291
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:26 pm Reply with quote
bronia wrote:
Random Name wrote:
bronia wrote:
Interesting choices to go with only GL and BL for getting back in the translating game. I can't say any of the titles are especially exciting for me, but out of principle I try to support GL releases. A Room For Two looks really cute, so I might have to pick that one up.
I don't believe that is yuri at least it doesn't start out that way.

My guess is that it's subtext, but one of the tags on manga updates is GL (or shoujo ai or whatever tag it uses). I do agree that it's not /yuri/ yuri, but I like the subtext stuff too so I'm okay with that.

Oh, I'd say it's yuri. It may be a bit of a slow burn and it's 4-koma so it's largely comedy, but it has it's moments... When we get to volume 3 there's a great scene where, from all appearances, (it hasn't been translated yet, I've only seen images) spoiler[they have an "accidental kiss", the kind of thing where they turn toward each other at the same time and their lips meet, then pretty much start making out.]

In volume 2, when Sakurako gives her email address to one of the other girls, it is: spoiler["[email protected]" which I presume is supposed to stand for "Love Kasumi" and when the other girl seems a little weirded out by it, she laughs and says "Kasumi-chan got mad and wanted me to change it." while smiling with a total "Not gonna change it" look on her face.]

And let's not forget that they sleep together from day one and Kasumi pretty much treats Sakurako as if she were her wife.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Page 6 of 6

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group