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Wtv
Joined: 02 Nov 2014
Posts: 157
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 Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:55 pm
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| Ashabel wrote: |
I'm honestly becoming fascinated with people's complete insistence with branding Darling in the Franxx as a Trigger show. The complete list of the show's production committee can be easily found online ( here is a convenient screenshot), the complete list of the staff is available and even the in-show credits indicate that Trigger have no involvement beyond the series' mecha action.
Did A-1 Pictures deploy some mass brainwashing technique in order to ensure that they're not held responsible regardless of what happens to the show, good or bad? Is Kill la Kill's mind-controlled dystopia our actual reality now? I really want to know. |
I know you're right, but Trigger was the one that announced it together with their other projects on an american event. That's why everyone thinks it's a Trigger show. So it's not A-1 to blame, but Trigger themselves.
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Scalfin
Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 249
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:10 pm
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I suppose my take on the show is that Jews are even less represented than gays in anime but you don't see me whining that it's not Soon By You or referencing Nedarim or Shulhan Arukh.
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鏡
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:30 pm
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| Scalfin wrote: | | I suppose my take on the show is that Jews are even less represented than gays in anime but you don't see me whining that it's not Soon By You or referencing Nedarim or Shulhan Arukh. |
Of course, this show isn't taking being a good Christian as the key to achieving competence and power either.
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Yttrbio
Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 3652
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:37 pm
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I think if you take seriously the idea that this show is meant to challenge typical societal expectations for relationships, including queer relationships would be an enormous mistake thematically. The nature of societal expectations for heterosexual couples is so different from those for queer couples (i.e. "don't have them") that it couldn't really fit in the same framework. That's not to say the issue couldn't come up later as a challenge to the status quo, but it would make no sense here, because there is no well-established societal standard for what a same-sex relationship should look like (beyond nonexistent, in many cases).
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Chrysostomus
Joined: 11 Mar 2015
Posts: 335
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:39 pm
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| Wtv wrote: | | You have to agree that making a show that's suppose to be about sexuality and relationship and failing to explore other kinds of sexuality is a waste opportunity. It's like making a story about america culture and focus on New York. |
Okay, so if a story takes place in New York and doesn't include Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Phoenix, Philadelphia, San Antonio, San Diego, Dallas, San Jose, Austin, Jacksonville, San Francisco, Indianapolis, Charlotte, Seattle, Denver, El Paso, Boston, Detroit, Memphis, Portland, Las Vegas and Baltimore, then it's a wasted opportunity?
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DeTroyes
Joined: 30 May 2016
Posts: 520
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:53 pm
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| TarsTarkas wrote: | | Feel like I am living in George Orwell's 1984, and the Thought Police are out to get us, from reading this review. It's nice how the PC police like bringing in new weaponized terminology, like "heteronormative", to tell us how bad the show is or we the audience. Guess that is the word of the day. |
I hear you. And frankly, I'm getting rather tired of the neo-Victorianism that seems to be going around in some quarters. The vast majority of the world is hetero and happily so; pointing this out and discussing it in a provocative way shouldn't have to involve smelling salts and fainting couches. Thankfully, the vast majority of creators in Japan completely ignore such criticisms.
| TarsTarkas wrote: | |
@DeTroyes
As to Iczer One, I loved that show. Have it on Laserdisc too! You are right it did have that. Sadly, if it premiered today, it would be ripped apart |
I don't think it would fare any worse or better. Frankly, Darling in the Franxx is in many ways more explicit than Iczer One ever was.
| Lemonchest wrote: | | Remember? Most weren't born yet. |
Kids these days. No respect for the classics! 
| Wtv wrote: | | [You have to agree that making a show that's suppose to be about sexuality and relationship and failing to explore other kinds of sexuality is a waste opportunity. It's like making a story about america culture and focus on New York. |
To be fair, we're only at episode #3 of 24, and theres still plenty of room for plot twists and other avenues of exploration. Also, there's nothing that says whatever discussions about relationships that ensue in this series cannot also apply to other kinds of relationships.
But if the show isn't interesting to you, by all means drop it. God knows, there's tons of alternatives out there to occupy any fan's time, and there's nothing worse than forcing yourself to watch something you're not enjoying.
Last edited by DeTroyes on Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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鏡
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:58 pm
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| DeTroyes wrote: | |
I hear you. And frankly, I'm getting rather tired of the neo-Victorianism that seems to be going around in some quarters. The vast majority of the world is hetero and happily so; pointing this out and discussing it in a provocative way shouldn't have to involve smelling salts and fainting couches. Thankfully, the vast majority of creators in Japan completely ignore such criticisms.
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Is this saying that DITF is pointing out that "the vast majority of the world is hetero and discussing it in a provocative way"?
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Lemonchest
Joined: 18 Mar 2015
Posts: 1771
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:59 pm
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| Wtv wrote: |
| Ashabel wrote: |
I'm honestly becoming fascinated with people's complete insistence with branding Darling in the Franxx as a Trigger show. The complete list of the show's production committee can be easily found online ( here is a convenient screenshot), the complete list of the staff is available and even the in-show credits indicate that Trigger have no involvement beyond the series' mecha action.
Did A-1 Pictures deploy some mass brainwashing technique in order to ensure that they're not held responsible regardless of what happens to the show, good or bad? Is Kill la Kill's mind-controlled dystopia our actual reality now? I really want to know. |
I know you're right, but Trigger was the one that announced it together with their other projects on an american event. That's why everyone thinks it's a Trigger show. So it's not A-1 to blame, but Trigger themselves. |
I'm guessing they thought (correctly) that "from the Studio that made Kill la Kill & TTGL" would sound better than "from the director of the iDOLM@STER."
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kaorv
Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Posts: 30
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:00 pm
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On the one hand, I do think the columnists are too quick to denounce heterosexuality/shows aimed at straight men given their whole "Kink and let kink, trash and let trash!" ethos.
One the other hand, its hilarious to see people overreact to it in the forums. You straight guys are still the dominant voice in most communities including anime, no need to get too worked up about this.
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Wtv
Joined: 02 Nov 2014
Posts: 157
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:06 pm
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| Chrysostomus wrote: |
| Wtv wrote: | | You have to agree that making a show that's suppose to be about sexuality and relationship and failing to explore other kinds of sexuality is a waste opportunity. It's like making a story about america culture and focus on New York. |
Okay, so if a story takes place in New York and doesn't include Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Phoenix, Philadelphia, San Antonio, San Diego, Dallas, San Jose, Austin, Jacksonville, San Francisco, Indianapolis, Charlotte, Seattle, Denver, El Paso, Boston, Detroit, Memphis, Portland, Las Vegas and Baltimore, then it's a wasted opportunity? |
Yeah. Otherwise it's just a story about New York. What is fine, but let's be honest, if the critics said "this is a story about straight relationships", people would still complain, because it's reminding them that something else exists.
Anyway, in my opinion, that's a pretty boring approach. I won't say it's not supposed to exist, but it's boring, and it would be interesting otherwise. You'll blame me for thinking that and using it as criticism? No one is saying you shouldn't watch this, it's just their opinion that this is not the best approach to the theme, as it's their opinion that focusing on fanservice for straight male is uninteresting (and let me put my opinion here, cheap fanservice won't make anyone think the story is less dumb then it sounds already).
People say negative things about shows I like everytime, but I just respect their opinion. People here just get really triggered with terms like "heteronormativity" for no reason. Even though it's not even a lie, in the true meaning of the word.
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Chrysostomus
Joined: 11 Mar 2015
Posts: 335
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:07 pm
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| Wtv wrote: | | Yeah. Otherwise it's just a story about New York. |
Okay, so every single story set in America is essentially bad, based on your ridiculously untenable rules for fiction.
| Wtv wrote: | | People here just get really triggered with terms like "heteronormativity" for no reason. |
Because it's an insult. Wow, people get upset when they are disrespected. What a crazy idea, huh?
| kaorv wrote: | | You straight guys are still the dominant voice in most communities including anime, no need to get too worked up about this. |
In some anime communities I would argue it's straight women, so is it okay to denigrate and insult them too?
Last edited by Chrysostomus on Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:13 pm; edited 2 times in total
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DeTroyes
Joined: 30 May 2016
Posts: 520
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:07 pm
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| kaorv wrote: | | One the other hand, its hilarious to see people overreact to it in the forums. You straight guys are still the dominant voice in most communities including anime, no need to get too worked up about this. |
Ooo boy. Over reactions? You ain't seen nothing yet.
Wait until Back Street Girls comes out.
Last edited by DeTroyes on Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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12skippy21
Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 785
Location: York, England
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:07 pm
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I await the day we all lock ourselves away from each other so nothing can ever be challenged or critised by anyone other than ourselves 
As for the show itself, it is far to early to judge the show on what it may become so you can only focus on the here and now, which the original article did do. The shows biggest issue is that it has the finesse of a sledgehammer and (to use the shows vernacular), this comes down to how you like your story structure, personally I prefer to start with a little touch before getting stuck in. So far we are at the masturbation stage and skipped the foreplay.
Only time will tell if it decides to go all the way where everyone leaves happy or shoots its story load prematurely thus making a mess of the show...and the carpet.
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Chrono1000
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:15 pm
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| Sahmbahdeh wrote: | | Look, I get that you want representation in your anime, that's all well and dandy, but can we please stop acting like focusing on heterosexual relationships is a bad thing? You may not have intended that, but the discussion really gives off that impression. Sometimes straight people want to make a sexy show about straight relationships. |
Agreed, making a show about heterosexual relationships is completely reasonable. Anime has shows such as Flip Flappers, Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid, Super Lovers, Yurikuma Arashi, and Yuri on Ice. Support the shows you like and they will make more of them with whatever type of relationship you prefer.
| Chrysostomus wrote: | | Okay, so if a story takes place in New York and doesn't include Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Phoenix, Philadelphia, San Antonio, San Diego, Dallas, San Jose, Austin, Jacksonville, San Francisco, Indianapolis, Charlotte, Seattle, Denver, El Paso, Boston, Detroit, Memphis, Portland, Las Vegas and Baltimore, then it's a wasted opportunity? |
It would be closer to having a story that goes to all of those cities but doesn't go to Houston and than having people claim that since the story didn't go to Houston that must mean that it hates everyone from Texas. It is hard to argue with people that assume you are guilty until proven innocent.
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Wtv
Joined: 02 Nov 2014
Posts: 157
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:19 pm
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| Chrysostomus wrote: | | Okay, so every single story set in America is essentially bad, based on your ridiculously untenable rules for fiction. |
If you read my post, I didn't say that. Although I do find most stories set in America bad, but that's beyond the point.
| Chrysostomus wrote: | | Because it's an insult. Wow, people get upset when they are disrespected. What a crazy idea, huh? |
It's not a insult. It's just saying the writers don't consider others sexualities. It doesn't mean straight people are bad, just that writers should be aware that they're not the only kind of people who exist in the world. Because, you know, writers not being able to create different kind of people is a problem.
In fact, I'm confused as how you can take that as an insult. Complaning about heteronormativity is just saying that all sides should be propely represented, not that one of them should disappear.
| Chrono1000 wrote: | | Anime has shows such as Flip Flappers, Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid, Super Lovers, Yurikuma Arashi, and Yuri on Ice. |
Yeah, all of them feature straight people as well as gay people. That's the point.
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