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Shelf Life - Super Lovers

Chrono1000 wrote:

The issue with Super Lovers that it is a show that sells itself on the idea of child grooming. That is a very specific fetish and it is not subtle about it since they even advertise that in the promotional art. That is why comparing a show to Super Lovers is usually meant as an insult and that is how it was used in the article.

I mean that's what I said. You are bothered by Super Lovers because you dislike the main relationship and see it has grooming, but you aren't bothered by the sexualized 10 years old in Prisma. So you are ok with Prisma but not SL. Gabriella dislikes both. I would say I find the relationship between Haru and Ren ok, but I wouldn't watch a show with sexualized 10 years old girls.

We are all different. Bothered by different things. So yea. This topic will ruffle feathers no matter what is said.

You're misunderstanding. People don't "see" Super Lovers as grooming. It is objectively grooming. That's what its central point is about. You're lying if you claim it's not about grooming. That is in fact what is about, and no amount of your disagreement will change that absolute fact. Super Lovers depicting grooming a child for sex is objectively far worse than Prisma Ilya showing some fanservice involving children of the same age. You are free to have your very specific fetish of course, but quit trying to pretend that it's somehow just a matter of opinion. Murder is far worse than theft, and Super Lovers depicts something that is far worse than what Prisma Ilya depicts. I don't like either show, but this level of intentionally intellectually dishonest whataboutism is disgusting and has no place on here.

Mojave wrote:

You're misunderstanding. People don't "see" Super Lovers as grooming. It is objectively grooming. That's what its central point is about. You're lying if you claim it's not about grooming. That is in fact what is about, and no amount of your disagreement will change that absolute fact. Super Lovers depicting grooming a child for sex is objectively far worse than Prisma Ilya showing some fanservice involving children of the same age. You are free to have your very specific fetish of course, but quit trying to pretend that it's somehow just a matter of opinion. Murder is far worse than theft, and Super Lovers depicts something that is far worse than what Prisma Ilya depicts. I don't like either show, but this level of intentionally intellectually dishonest whataboutism is disgusting and has no place on here.

I mean i never denied anything about Super lovers. And I talked about how each of us is bothered by something to different degrees. So less opinion and more personal tolerance. I also never tried to be intellectually dishonest either. I'm just carefully choosing my words cause I don't want everyone jumping on walls like you just did. So calm down with all the disgusting calling. You say young girls being sexually depicted as something far worse then the relationship in Super lovers. I disagree. Anyway cheers. I'm pretty much done here. When insults begin to fly it's time to stop.

With the exception of the same-sex aspect, these types of situations are often way more normalized than they should be in society.

Throwing shades at each other is getting silly people.

Super Lovers: it might not be a good show, but damn if it doesn't generate discussion.

GoldCrusader wrote:

Throwing shades at each other is getting silly people.

This is rather funny coming from the person who was literally the first person in the thread to post, and threw plenty of shade at the reviewer for doing her job.

If you don't agree with the review, good for you. It is just a review though, not some personal vendetta or attack on fans, so let's all calm down the rage a bit and towards each other. Thanks.

Psycho 101 wrote:

GoldCrusader wrote: Throwing shades at each other is getting silly people. This is rather funny coming from the person who was literally the first person in the thread to post, and threw plenty of shade at the reviewer for doing her job. If you don't agree with the review, good for you. It is just a review though, not some personal vendetta or attack on fans, so let's all calm down the rage a bit and towards each other. Thanks.

Oh but I still think the reviewer deserves the shades. It was a bad idea. Fans of show she attacked doing it to each other is silly though.

The whole she's doing it for the job is still a pretty bad argument. I don't see why she couldn't have reviewed absolutely anything else considering that barring trashing it she didn't even do her job properly and never even mentionned the disc having cool extras like an OVA. Pretty cool detail to talk about if we are talking disc release.

So basically, "I get to criticize anyone who disagrees with me, but nobody's allowed to criticize me or things I like." Got it.

The thing is, she reviewed it exactly how she should have based on her past reviews. She's often quite harsh on male-oriented fanservice shows, almost all of which aren't nearly as inherently problematic as Super Lovers. If she hadn't been this harsh on it, that would have been a problem. We get it, you like the show. That's fine, you're allowed to. But all the criticisms of it are completely valid, and you don't get to bash people for making all those valid criticisms just because you like the show. You are the one here most out of line and most deserving of shade, not the reviewer.

Mojave wrote:

So basically, "I get to criticize anyone who disagrees with me, but nobody's allowed to criticize me or things I like." Got it.

I mean that's never what i said.....

Super Lovers: it might not be a good show, but damn if it doesn't generate discussion.

When the average anime fan thinks of Prisma Illya they don't think "Oh, that's the show with the awesome fights." They think of Kuro and Illya making out. Because that's the bed the show's chosen to make. Getting upset at someone for labeling it as a lolicon fanservice show as if it's an unreasonable conclusion to come to is both silly and unfair.

Super Lovers: it might not be a good show, but damn if it doesn't generate discussion.

Though in light of cutiebunny's reminders about the Kodomo no Jikan manga (I guess some subplots slipped my mind), I concede that it fits the bill.

Songster01 wrote:

As a member of the LGBTQIAP2S+ community I find it sickening how often queer characters in BL and GL anime are put into wildly imbalanced and usually unhealthy relationships. Why? Because it's become the norm in anime. Yes, it happens to m/f couples in anime as well, but at least you have a much broader range of characters so one is not left with the impression that real-world same-sex relationships almost always involve sexual assault and frequently pedophilia or hebephilia.

Thank-you for sharing your perspective. I won't pretend to understand the intricate details of this lifestyle and terminology, but the principles still stand in heterosexual relationships. In this case, however, I feel like approaching a show like this, even with a 'good' agenda, it will not inherently adhere to these 'rules'.

Shows like this are pure titillation, and as you already said, not an indicator an applicable, real world example of love/sexual relationships. Kink is kink to all of us, deep down where we live. Nothing is sacred, guaranteed to be wholesome, coherent, or even practically possible.

I agree with you, but fantasy is fantasy. Unless it encroaches on established law and order, there is nothing you can personally say or persuade for people to abandon these desires or stop deriving pleasure from their depictions.

All cats look grey in the dark, I guess.