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INTEREST: Queer Japanese Vlogger Discusses Boys-Love in English-Subtitled Video


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Crimson Queen Zora



Joined: 18 Jun 2017
Posts: 24
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:35 pm Reply with quote
My feelings do stem for the toxic fandom. In high school (a catholic all girls school to put things in prospective) I saw both creepy, over the top fandom mixed with homophobia which poisoned the waters for me. I am a huge Yuri fan since I discovered it when i was just starting to realize who I am as a person.
And my 1st yuri was Strawberry Panic which is gulity of all the tropes of yuri but it opened my eyes to more then just girls could love girls. And the fandom that I found wasn't as overzealous and hormone fueled as the BL fandom. And when i read more yuri by lesbian creators like Rica 'tte Kanji and Honey X Honey it all clicked with me. And going all the way back to the genre's start with Yoshiya Nobuko with her life and her works that made her the Mother of the genre made it feel special. While she was far from a perfect person the fact that she lived and loved openly in a time when that was looked down upon and shunned gave me courage. I do still lobe yuri both autobiographical works and classic girls love but BL just isn't my cup of tea.

sorry this answer was more personal then
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katscradle



Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Posts: 469
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:07 pm Reply with quote
@Crimson Queen Zora
I actually think personal answers are the best!
What you said is something I don’t know if many people realize about yuri/GL. It has such a rich history with figures of many different backgrounds and continues on interesting paths with more out creators. I wish more of Nobuko Yoshiya’s work was available in translation though I’m sure people can critique it a lot in our modern times.
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Crimson Queen Zora



Joined: 18 Jun 2017
Posts: 24
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:41 pm Reply with quote
Her short story "The Yellow Rose" is up on amazon kindle for like $3 bucks. Don't read the introduction because while it is a great essay on her life and work it also is a huge spoiler for the story down to the minor details. https://www.amazon.com/Yellow-Rose-Yoshiya-Nobuko-ebook/dp/B01G33XY1O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520123829&sr=8-1&keywords=the+yellow+rose+nobuko

Also if you want short stories by Japanese lesbians in English check out Sparkling Rain. It has an amazing introduction that covers the history of lesbian media in japan. it's a wide reaching anthology that goes all the way back to the rise of feminism in Japan with a poem by the founder of the Blue Stocking movement. It has a funny as all hell story mocking every yuri trope under the sun ..:https://www.amazon.com/Sparkling-Rain-Other-Fiction-Japan-ebook/dp/B018SQZL42/ref=sr_1_4?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1520123895&sr=1-4&keywords=Japanese+lesbian+anthology
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Crystalyn



Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 477
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:29 pm Reply with quote
marshmallowpie wrote:
Interesting of this article for emphasising the queer part of Matsumoto's identity, over the fact that he is a gay man, which is a lot more relevant to the topic of BL manga. There are a lot of people under the queer umbrella whose opinions on this subject wouldn't really mean much of anything, myself included (although queer sure ain't my label).


We made this decision specifically, because Matsumoto says in the video in the first two minutes that they're "not gay," but "almost (ほぼ) gay." Yes, the video title says "gay man," but Matsumoto's own words indicate something not so exact, so we chose queer.
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Songster01



Joined: 05 Nov 2016
Posts: 73
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:40 am Reply with quote
katscradle wrote:


Songster01 wrote:
Multiple studies of slash readers and writers demonstrate that the largest group of readers and writers are bi- or pansexual.


Interesting that you bring up slash. Personally I’ve never taken an interest in it at all. But it was through a friend that was into it that I discovered m/m stuff from Japan.

If anybody's curious there are academics in Japan and other countries that have researched and written about BL and fandom:

Professor, translator and girl’s manga scholar Rachel Thorn has a paper from 15 years ago that talks about slash and yaoi.
https://www.en.matt-thorn.com/single-post/2018/02/17/Girls-and-Women-Getting-Out-of-Hand-The-Pleasure-and-Politics-of-Japans-Amateur-Comics-Community

The book Boys Love Manga and Beyond has several perspectives from across the globe including a translated paper from gender and comics theory scholar Dr. Yukari Fujimoto who is often quoted and somewhat taken out of context by others. Also there's a paper on fudanshi by Dr. Kazumi Nagaike.

Writer and Professor Dru Pagliassotti has several academic papers in Reading BL in the West about 10 years ago found through survey 41% of respondents speaking English identified as lesbian, gay, bisexual, or other or had no interest in sex. The Italian language survey had a little over 29%.
http://www.participations.org/Volume%205/Issue%202/5_02_pagliassotti.htm

Dr. Anna Madill has a number of papers. I’m not sure if she’s updated numbers of her BL survey she keeps open but last I saw numbers from one of her papers respondents identified 34% heterosexual, 22% bisexual, 13% poly/pansexual, 12% not sure, 10% other, 9% homosexual/lesbian/gay and also 8% chose other for gender.
https://leeds.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/blfandomsurvey


Thank you for the list of resources!

I want to second Dr. Thorn's wonderful work with the caveat that, when it comes to the discussion of slash, parts of it are (very understandably) out of date, since it was published 15 years ago. I suspect that at least the English-Language slash community has grown in size since the early 2000s (I wouldn't want to hazard how much but this is based on the m/m activity in the large fandoms I've been in since 2010); there is much less fear of being sued now; and I suspect slash fic has been having a new heyday, if the activity on the fanfic archive AO3 [Archive of Our Own] is any guide. Slash is especially common on Ao3, which is a gigantic fan-run archive that currently contains over 1.8 million(!) works in the m/m category alone. In 2013 around 45% of the fic in that archive was in the m/m category and, if my very quick and dirty search is accurate, that percentage has remained stable. See the relationship categories post for the 2013 project: http://destinationtoast.tumblr.com/post/52261319793/next-up-in-my-ongoing-series-on-ao3-stats-a by DestiniationToast.

It's cool to see that more demographic research has been done on other communities and that it challenges the argument that m/m communities are almost entirely made up of straight women. BL in Japan seems to be, but outside of Japan it may not always be the case now, and in slash communities, LGBTQ+ creators and consumers are either a large minority or even dominate. Again this is based on a few studies and much more work remains to be done.
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#Verso.Sciolto



Joined: 17 Feb 2017
Posts: 325
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:07 am Reply with quote
Songster01 wrote:
My Brother's Husband
Now also a TV Drama, mini series the first episode of which aired on one of NHK's satellite channels about two hours ago (Sunday at 22:00). The preview video on the NHK website gives a good impression of the way the manga was adapted.
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gimmeaqueereye



Joined: 04 Mar 2018
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:56 pm Reply with quote
Hi! I'm Masaki, the person in the video. A friend of mine showed me this thread. I'm glad my video seems to have sparked some discussion among English-speaking anime/manga fans and others, here on ANN and elsewhere, about BL and the issues of representation in general. All the subtitling (yes, it's a lot of work) was worth it. Thank you all for watching the video and responding. There's just one thing I wanted to clarify, and it's about my gender/sexual identity. I said in the video I was "almost" gay because I am also bi. It's complicated, but I'm sexually attracted to both women and men, but only want to engage in sexual activities with men, and definitely only want to have a romantic relationship with men. Since I don't plan on engaging in any romantic or sexual activity/relationship whatsoever with women, I usually don't bother telling people I'm bisexual (because there's no point in them learning about my sexual arousal that will never be acted upon or even shown to other people ever at all). And my gender identity is not firmly fixed to "male," either, and I don't mind being called a they or a he. I hope that makes sense. With that said, I'm grateful to the person who pointed out here that I'm a gay man and that people should not disrespect or belittle my such self-proclaimed identity, for trying to protect me from potential mislabeling. I thank both of you for trying to respect my identity, in different ways because of a lack of clarification on my end. Hope you have a wonderful day.
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katscradle



Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Posts: 469
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:15 pm Reply with quote
Crimson Queen Zora wrote:
Her short story "The Yellow Rose" is up on amazon kindle for like $3 bucks. Don't read the introduction because while it is a great essay on her life and work it also is a huge spoiler for the story down to the minor details. https://www.amazon.com/Yellow-Rose-Yoshiya-Nobuko-ebook/dp/B01G33XY1O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520123829&sr=8-1&keywords=the+yellow+rose+nobuko

Also if you want short stories by Japanese lesbians in English check out Sparkling Rain. It has an amazing introduction that covers the history of lesbian media in japan. it's a wide reaching anthology that goes all the way back to the rise of feminism in Japan with a poem by the founder of the Blue Stocking movement. It has a funny as all hell story mocking every yuri trope under the sun ..:https://www.amazon.com/Sparkling-Rain-Other-Fiction-Japan-ebook/dp/B018SQZL42/ref=sr_1_4?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1520123895&sr=1-4&keywords=Japanese+lesbian+anthology


Yes I came across the translation of Yellow Rose when I was doing research on her Flower Tales so people should check it out! Thanks for pointing out Sparkling Rain. I’ll have to get that one. One book I found somewhat interesting is Passionate Friendship by Deborah Shamoon about girls' culture in Japan. It goes from literature in the Meiji era up to the shoujo manga of the 1970s. Wish I had some more ideas in English.

@Songster01
You're welcome. It's interesting to find out more about the slash community too.

@gimmeaqueereye Thank you for putting in the extra work! So much comes to people through filters that can complicate understanding and dialogue so your efforts are invaluable.
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wolf10



Joined: 23 Jan 2016
Posts: 386
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:40 pm Reply with quote
gimmeaqueereye wrote:
Hi! I'm Masaki, the person in the video.
You sir, are my hero. Most of the gay male friends I have hate on BL and fujoshi with some regularity, so I tend to keep my own opinion quiet when the subject comes up. I certainly wasn't sure what to expect from your video, but as a fellow "mostly" gay man I found myself agreeing (and often relating) with just about everything you had to say. Keep fighting the good fight.
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Amethyst Alchemist



Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 290
Location: where it's always a good morning
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:11 pm Reply with quote
gimmeaqueereye wrote:
Hi! I'm Masaki, the person in the video. A friend of mine showed me this thread. I'm glad my video seems to have sparked some discussion among English-speaking anime/manga fans and others, here on ANN and elsewhere, about BL and the issues of representation in general. All the subtitling (yes, it's a lot of work) was worth it. Thank you all for watching the video and responding. There's just one thing I wanted to clarify, and it's about my gender/sexual identity. I said in the video I was "almost" gay because I am also bi. It's complicated, but I'm sexually attracted to both women and men, but only want to engage in sexual activities with men, and definitely only want to have a romantic relationship with men. Since I don't plan on engaging in any romantic or sexual activity/relationship whatsoever with women, I usually don't bother telling people I'm bisexual (because there's no point in them learning about my sexual arousal that will never be acted upon or even shown to other people ever at all). And my gender identity is not firmly fixed to "male," either, and I don't mind being called a they or a he. I hope that makes sense. With that said, I'm grateful to the person who pointed out here that I'm a gay man and that people should not disrespect or belittle my such self-proclaimed identity, for trying to protect me from potential mislabeling. I thank both of you for trying to respect my identity, in different ways because of a lack of clarification on my end. Hope you have a wonderful day.


Hi, Masaki! Thank you for responding, and we apologize for any mislabeling. We've added in your full comment from this thread for clarification. Please let us know if our phrasing in the article needs any further edits. As Crystal mentioned earlier in this thread, we discussed and chose our word choice for this article based on your Twitter bio, the video, and Deb Aoki's interview article.

Also, thank you for going to the trouble of subtitling this video. It seems to have sparked plenty of discussion, and I think fans are glad to have it as a resource.
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