Forum - View topicThe Mike Toole Show - Z is for Zoids
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LightningCount
 Posts: 229 |
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Thanks for bringing this up, Mike. I had no idea Katsuyuki Sumisawa was involved with this franchise. That's interesting. I enjoyed the first two anime series quite a lot, but post-New Century Zero hasn’t treated the franchise kindly. In theory, it really could’ve been developed to be a companion piece to the Gundam franchise proper. Zoids Wild looks like it’s perhaps trying to mimic Gundam’s success with its Build Fighters spinoff, which may or may not make business sense, but does not interest me. (I do like the new logo, though, and the CG does appear to be better than Fuzors and Genesis...but those character designs are deal-breakers.)
Zoids: New Century Zero definitely premiered on Toonami before Zoids: Chaotic Century. The former aired in 2001 and the latter aired on Cartoon Network off of Toonami, like at around 6 or 7 a.m., starting in February 2002. Eventually, Chaotic Century found its way to the afternoon and Toonami in July 2002, hence the Toonami promo, “Now there’s a reason to rumble.” (In other words, letting Toonami viewers know the fighting was now about more than a tournament structure.) It finally wrapped up with the “Final Four” special event on January 4, 2003. I would be interested in a re-release of Zoids: New Century Zero and Zoids: Chaotic Century in the US. I thought Discotek would be the one to look into this, but it seems it is more complicated than I thought. (It reminds me of similar issues surrounding the Fafner franchise right now that I've heard.) I only ever managed to collect Chaotic Century from VIZ, but they’re both entertaining series that do more than one would expect. They're fun shows to revisit. I think there is a confusion among large swaths of anime fans that this franchise is similar to Pokemon, when actually, Chaotic Century is more akin to something like After War: Gundam X, Eureka Seven, or Gurren Lagann in tone and story, while New Century Zero is more akin to Mobile Fighter: G-Gundam and IGPX. That said, they both have a bit of a Shonen Jump vibe to them as well; but even so, these two entries, while surely made to sell toys, were really no more "toy commercials" than your average Gundam entry. The former, Chaotic Century, is not only a coming-of-age war drama in the vein of the mecha genre but an adventure series about trying to solve an ancient mystery. It’s 67 episodes, and while it starts off a little slowly and awkwardly, it builds to have a rather impressive scope and variety of scenarios with a lot of memorable characters. Zoids: Chaotic Century is actually broken into two halves with a time skip between them, the second part officially known as Guardian Force. It was one of the first in-series anime time skips I had seen like this, and it remains one of the most fitting, cohesive, and effective I have seen to date. The latter, New Century Zero, is a 26-episode tournament-style show, yes, but also has an intriguing conspiracy story that runs through it and raises the stakes. Like Chaotic Century, it has an endearing cast of heroes and villains, and the overall art direction has a unique and charming appeal to it. Overall, it has much more of a comedic bent to it than Chaotic Century, but it isn’t an all-out comedy by any means. Now, historically, I can’t think of another series of their vintage that utilized “cel-shaded” CG to this level. It has trouble in the movement department early on, but over the course of Chaotic Century it gets really quite effective, and it then maintains that quality or higher through New Century Zero. This franchise showed the potential of CG in anime in a very different way than GONZO’s Blue Submarine No.6, which, while I’ve got love for that series as well, went for a more realistic approach rather than trying to meld its CG with the tradition of anime. I often wonder if the technology developed over the course of Chaotic Century and New Century Zero affected how anime studios approached CG going forward. Unfortunately, the switching of staff in Fuzors and Genesis completely changed things for the worse. I don’t recall how many Fuzors episodes I saw--it was a decent amount--but its plotting, characterization, and action didn’t feel as fleshed out as Chaotic Century or New Century Zero. Moreover, it felt like an alternate universe rather than a follow-up to New Century Zero, whereas New Century Zero still referenced Chaotic Century in a way that felt more cohesive. I never did get to see Zoids Genesis. It was supposed to appear on one of Toonami's streaming services before that got canned, but it never did. Like Fuzors, the outward art direction didn't really appeal very much to me, though, and I've never been convinced it would be an entry I'd like. To its credit, from what little I know, it did seem like it was trying to bring back the larger scope and bigger stakes of Chaotic Century, however. Just a few notes: New Century Zero’s excellent music was done by Kou Ohtani, who did the music for Shadow of the Colossus, Gundam Wing, Outlaw Star, and the Darkstalkers OVAs. Curiously, some of the more atmospheric tracks attributed to Robert Etoll on Chaotic Century’s soundtrack often pop up verbatim or remixed in various forms of media, like for History Channel shows. I’ve never been able to uncover why that is. Having the original opening and endings for the series in an uncut re-release would be great, as Chaotic Century's "Wild Flowers" theme didn't get its proper due, but I would still like the English dubs, which had some great performances mixed into it. (For one, the talented Mark Gatha is in it, and he played such roles as X in the latter Mega Man X titles and Domon Kasshu in G-Gundam.) Anyway, as one final aside, I also wonder if New Century Zero was part of the inspiration for the original Toonami micro-series called IGPX. EDIT: For anyone who cares, it looks like Zoids: New Century Zero did start on Cartoon Network off of Toonami also. According to ANN Encyclopedia and other sources, it was October 22 in 2001, while the Toonami promo says it started November 5 in 2001. I was not aware of this. I guess both Zoids series first cut their teeth off of Toonami in the US. Regardless, whether Cartoon Network or Toonami, New Century Zero was aired before its prequel, Chaotic Century. Last edited by LightningCount on Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:32 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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jr240483
 Posts: 4374 Location: New York City,New York,USA |
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afraid not. Zero Century was shown on toonami first, then Chaotic Century and i should know cause i am and still a die hard toonami faithful . the other fact finder that is on their official japanese website that it stated that zero century took place 5000 years after the events of chaotic century which lead to the speculation that liger zero and the berserk fury are the exact same ones that van and that other guy piloted as well as those two being the final evolution of their blade liger & genobreaker respectfully.
not exactly. if you mean the guardian force arc, then yes. though the first arc of the series was well liked than zero century cause though its was liked back in the day, it didn't had any memorable characters other than Bit , Vega , Sigma Stoller , Naomi & Brad. the rest were not that interesting and others like mad scientist leon and that idiot whose obsessed with leena were downright annoying and are just only used as comic relief characters.
that's news to me cause the fans including japanese fans from some zoids forums basically speak about yaoi fanservice involving bit and stoller when it comes to zero century. while for chaotic century is basically everyone's unofficial couple van and fiona. and Genesis was basically a straight shotacon fanfest cause it was clearly obvious that the whole series was pandering to that otaku fanservice and in comiket 67 it was all over the place! though fuzors had some interesting things going on, like the concept of the soul of dead zoids reincarnating as humans, it was definitely the most hated of the franchise and baiting people with pretty boys like R.D and that Heero Yui clone wasnt selling to people. definitely one series that the brass of its company should have immediately scrapped. |
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Primus
 Posts: 2758 Location: Toronto |
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Yes, having a prior history with a franchise makes it likelier said company may pursue more.  Funimation's love of old Tenchi started before Toonami was revived. GXP probably did well for them back in the day and Geneon's stuff likely sold well given how much of it got dubbed, so they scooped it up. Your personal opinion on an entry is irrelevant. Companies don't care about that stuff. They only care if it'll sell.
How many licenses formerly held by Viz have been picked up by Funimation? As far as I can tell, none. Presumably if it was big enough for Funimation to take notice, Viz would keep it around themselves. As Mike pointed out in the column, Zoids wasn't even a major show on Toonami. It's very unlikely that they'd be interested in running Chaotic Century or Zero again. It's even less likelier that they'd air Zoids Wild.
None of the Zoids dubs are drastic departures from the original. You just don't have to be a 4Kids-tier hack job to still be a PITA to get to play nice with the Japanese footage. |
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Lynx Amali
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Its less trying to copy Build Fighters and more returning to the Battle Story/Zi History Book before the CC/GF/NC0 anime take off. Particularly Stage 2 of Zoids maturity. While the entry does look more in tone with the Build Fighters, I'm hoping they at least justify it. Just use the History Books stuff. Have younger Zoids have much more crazy abilities which go vanish as they get older (A lot like old age! Ha!) Regarding the CG, that's probably because Fuzors and Genesis were handled by different studios. The original duology were handled by Xebec who were experimenting with CG long before most studios touched it in the early-mid 2000s. Fuzors and Genesis I can't remember who they were by. Wild is being handled by OLM, who if they're work on Drive Head, Shinkalion, Vanguard G Next and G Z are anything to go by should, should be fine. It wasn't just a staff change; it was an entire studio change. I can't even be sure that Fuzors and Genesis had the same studio given how Fuzors CG looks compared to Genesis.
I don't think its similar. Fafner has been proven to not do well with Western audiences because people write off as an Eva clone, not to mention the high amount of investment you need to get everything. Like, the series is almost a decade and is still telling the stories of the original cast and it's one long overarching narrative so you do have to have seen everything to fully appreciate it. Xebec probably just doesn't think its worth it anymore. That, or North American licensors. See Funi's treatment of Heaven and Earth vs their license of AoT or MHA.
I liked Genesis a lot personally. Its much more melee combat focused and the CGI does take a bit of getting used to but I liked the actual story. The only major issue I had with is that the ending is such a non-ending. I'm not sure if the episode count was cut or something but it felt like there was at least an epilogue episode somewhere. |
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Primus
Posts: 2758 Location: Toronto |
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Fuzors was animated by Tokyo Kids. Genesis was done by ShoPro's studio. OLM collaborates with Xebec a lot. If they're swamped with with work, Xebec could actually wind up doing Wild.
As for Genesis being cut short, a 50 episode run is very much in-line with a typical kids anime. The show was caught during the Takara and Tomy merger, so there might've been plans for more that got scrapped due to management changes. I'm sure the failure of Fuzors in the west and the questionable place it left the franchise (it took a while for Viz to start talking about Genesis and even then, they didn't do much) made them uneasy to go forward. |
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Nate148
Posts: 466 |
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as for why robert's music is showing up on other tv stuff this might be why https://www.robertetoll.com/#!albums
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KH91
Posts: 6176 |
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Shinseiki/Zero was my favorite Zoids. Bit Cloud was my favorite MC. Not only that, he was voiced by Takahiro Sakurai (Cloud from Final Fantasy VII), which made me like him even more.
Oh, some of you might not have like Genesis, but Kotona was waifu along with Naomi (S/Z). |
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Compelled to Reply
 Posts: 358 |
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It's not my opinion, nor was it really a matter of "love," rather opportunity to sell a slew of old Geneon releases bought at fire sale prices. Maybe they sold well, promoting Funi to reissue each series. We'll never know. I've been in Tenchi fandom for years to know about cycles of it spiking in popularity to fading into obscurity, such as around the first few years of this decade. OVA 4 came out with little fanfare, and expected disappointment from us. The announcement of a new Zoids series has even received coverage in mainstream Japanese news, although that could be more about the toy side. Yes, I certainly doubt it's going to be huge, but there's still a possibility of a popularity spike warranting reissues of the old series. That is all. |
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Wrangler
 Posts: 1346 |
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I'm not holding my breath if this new version of Zoids works. They need pay their people well and have like the franchise to do it. Fuzors didn't know what it was trying do as far story goes? You can't world that revolves around a tournament. It has to have more depth to it. New Century and Chaotic century had a story and good vibe to it.
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ParaSitius
Posts: 55 |
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Blimey, am I the only one on here who is a member of the original 80's Marvel UK comic? How I wish the story could've continued in the canned monthly series after the main Spidey & Zoids comic was cancelled. Even now 32 years later it still irks me that it was finished on several cliffhangers. I always wondered if there could be a way to get the licence and then have a word with Grant Morrison about where he had planned on taking the story. Ah well, nothing but a pipe dream though.
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LightningCount
Posts: 229 |
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About that, I always thought Xebec was doing all the CG on Chaotic Century/New Century Zero, and that the technology/techniques learned from that work filtered into Production I.G. on things like Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, since they share the same parent company. However, when I dig into the ANN Encyclopedia, it suggests that the CG for Chaotic Century was by Digital Frontier and the CG for New Century Zero was by Shogakukan Music & Digital Entertainment with assistance from Digital Frontier and others. I'm not sure how this all actually breaks down or if it's just semantics. I find it hard to believe that Xebec only did the 2D animation, but when I look at later productions of Xebec-named studios, I see Orange (Fafner Exodus) and OLM Digital (Argevollen) listed. Was Xebec never the implementer of this CG movement, and was rather an agent utilzing and promoting it through the help of various CG companies? I mean, Fafner Exodus and Argevollen have some of the most effective 3DCGI mecha this decade, in my opinion, and I had attributed that directly to Xebec, though now I'm not so sure.
This is certainly part of it, but from one of the last couple of ANNcasts where Funimation members were guests, I seem to recall Fafner coming up and the Funimation rep saying its status was complicated because of the stipulations presented by a big company like King Records. I think it was insinuated that King Records wanted a big investment in the franchise. (Maybe that included the ability to distribute OST CDs in the US?) I don't remember all the details, but I think the Funimation rep said it wasn't just the sales performance alone on that franchise that was slowing it down; actually, I think the rep said it didn't do awful overall, even if I might question that based on what I've seen. We'd have to go back to the podcast archives to get a better answer, I suppose.
Interesting. I listened to a few tracks, and couldn't find exact Zoids ones. Are they in there somewhere? Because I am hearing musical cues from Zoids in particular in TV media, not just things that have Robert's overall style. Still, this is a good clue toward what's going on. |
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rizuchan
 Collector Extraordinaire Posts: 974 Location: Kansas |
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It's was edited, enough that it would be very difficult if not impossible to do a dual-language release. Mostly minor things, like a couple shots from the beach episodes and when Bit walks in on Leena showering, but they were long enough that there would be holes in the dialogue if they didn't record voices for unedited versions. Chaotic Century had a lot more edits, but they were shorter edits, and there was a fanmade "blu-ray w/ dub audio" floating around on the net a while back that was pretty good, but the audio did have holes. As for NC though, the biggest problem was actually with Harry's robot, Benjamin. In one episode, Benjamin falls in love with the judge. See, in the Japanese version the judges are called "Judge Man" - but before you think this was some oddly progressive show dealing with robot homosexuality, (As I totally thought that episode was heading for when I was a kid!) Benjamin was a girl in the Japanese version. Named Benjamin. I'm guessing the dub thought they were simplifying things by making Benjamin male, but then backed themselves into a corner for this episode. So they cut out a lot of shoujo-ish scenes implying that Benjamin was a girl, changed dialogue, and gave the judge a girl voice. This problem occurs again in the aforementioned beach episode. There's a cut scene where Brad/Ballad comes across Benjamin, in a bikini, having tanning oil rubbed all over him/her/it by Sebastian. Typical NC comedy antics ensue. So in fact, most of NC's edits are all because they gave a female(?) robot a boy name. So if it wasn't obvious, I'm a total nerd for the Zoids anime, especially NC/0. I actually bought the Japanese blu-rays for NC/0 and have, uh, seen the ones for CC, and let me say they are gorgeous. Like, I can't believe this show came out in 2000 gorgeous. I would kill for a proper subbed set to the point I've toyed with the idea of fansubbing it myself. Then I also picked up the Fuzors set. It's, uh... it wasn't a good looking show to begin with, but I don't think they gave it the same love remastering it that they did the first two seasons either. Yet they still gladly charged me $300 for it. 
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5823 Location: Virginia, United States |
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Forget the anime, manga, and comics, I want the toys.
Good to hear they will be making them again. |
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K.o.R
 Posts: 221 |
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I can definitely say that Chaotic Century was the first series to be shown here in the UK but I can't remember what channel. Probably Sky One, right after Pokemon?
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LaytonPuzzle27
 Posts: 121 |
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Has anyone going to my comment about Paul Rufe. I didn't post that comment for nothing you.
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