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Answerman - What Makes A Manga Shonen Or Shoujo?


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TarutoClown93



Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 294
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:28 pm Reply with quote
Spawn29 wrote:
BadNewsBlues wrote:
Spawn29 wrote:
Seinen titles around that time are more grounded to reality like Golgo 13, Lupin the 3rd, Lone Wolf and Cub and Lady Snowblood.


...two of these things are not like the others and two of these things don't belong in the discussion of a story being grounded in reality.


I brought them up when comparing them to Shonen & Shojo to Seinen. During the 60's, 70's and 80's, kids manga with mature content was able to get away with it if they are more fantasy orient. Devilman is a very violent manga, but it does deal with demons that appeals to kids and teens during the 70's while something like Lone Wolf and Cub in the 70's appeal more to adults due to being more grounded. Even Lupin was popular 20+ year olds when it was originally airing on TV. Same goes with Fist of the North Star which probably got away with the violence and gore in a kids magazine due to it being so over the top.


BadNewsBlues wrote:
Tenchi Muyo were not children shows.


Tenchi Muyo is Shonen.


Cowboy Bebop was also a shounen anime when it first aired on TV Tokyo, even though it has a shoujo manga adaptation at the same time. Meanwhile all series that aired on Doroku/Nichigo are demographically shounen even if their anime originals can have seinen manga adaptation tie-ins, because of its nature of being broadcasted daytime.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5920
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:21 pm Reply with quote
Spawn29 wrote:


Tenchi Muyo is Shonen.


Sure didn't look or feel it.
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Spawn29



Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 551
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:36 pm Reply with quote
Really? It felt like any other popular Shonen series at the time like Ranma 1/2, YYH and DBZ.

Last edited by Spawn29 on Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Aquasakura



Joined: 01 Jan 2014
Posts: 700
Location: Chesterfield, Virginia, U.S.A
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:49 pm Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:


Sure didn't look or feel it.


Tenchi Muyo is aim at males. More specifically adolescence males for the reason that it's a harem featuring females.
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Stuart Smith



Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 1298
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:44 am Reply with quote
Something 'feeling' shonen is andecdotal, and also relies upon the individual's own experience and exposure. To a lot of westerners, shonen is just action shows with power ups, so they'll look at a series like Kochikome and think it's some kids gag manga, or think Ichigo 100% is a shoujo since it focuses on romance. You already see it occasionally with Yu-Gi-Oh, who people swear is just some kodomo show, not a shounen like Naruto, Bleach, or One Piece despite them all running in the same magazine (though to be fair, the dub certainly doesn't help)

It also definately doesn't help that most non-action shonen are huge failures in the American market. Whether this is the effect of or the cause of this kind of mindset I'm not sure. The few WSJ comedies we do get licensed end up being cancelled, like Gintama. But most don't even get a chance to do poorly. And Gintama actually does have bouts of action occasionally. Stuff like Kachikome or Sket Dance would no doubt do even worse.

-Stuart Smith
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Aquasakura



Joined: 01 Jan 2014
Posts: 700
Location: Chesterfield, Virginia, U.S.A
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:42 am Reply with quote
Stuart Smith wrote:
You already see it occasionally with Yu-Gi-Oh, who people swear is just some kodomo show, not a shounen like Naruto, Bleach, or One Piece despite them all running in the same magazine (though to be fair, the dub certainly doesn't help)


While people do consider the Yu-Gi-Oh series to be something for kids (which technically it is by literature, or whatever it's called, standards as it would be label as teen or YA fiction) this is the first I am learning there are some people who do not consider Yu-Gi-Oh to be a shounen manga/anime series at all.

Stuart Smith wrote:

It also definately doesn't help that most non-action shonen are huge failures in the American market. Whether this is the effect of or the cause of this kind of mindset I'm not sure.


I think part of it would be the mindset you brought up, but I think another bigger part that is fueling this mindset is the fact that action, as well as science fiction, are more popular genres among males it seems in the U.S in general then romance. I would also guess that it might have something to do with how shounen manga is marketed in the U.S which seems to put more focus more on action/adventure series, but then that too would also be a result of the preference for the action genre in the States.

Interesting enough, and surprising, the romance genre is actually the most popular genre in the U.S despite this (and from looking at past trends like with the phenomenons that were Twilight by Stephenie Meyer and 50 Shades of Gray by E. L. James it makes sense). Of course the romance stories that are under the Shounen Jump label is not going to reach the kind of audience quite as well who may enjoy those kinds of series.
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Spawn29



Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 551
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:06 pm Reply with quote
Stuart Smith wrote:
You already see it occasionally with Yu-Gi-Oh, who people swear is just some kodomo show, not a shounen like Naruto, Bleach, or One Piece despite them all running in the same magazine (though to be fair, the dub certainly doesn't help)


That's probably because Yu-Gi-Oh is a toy driven series and they view it as baby stuff. Action shows aim to kids do live on merchandise sales in both America and Japan.
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Jose Cruz



Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 1773
Location: South America
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:49 pm Reply with quote
bigivel wrote:
And that is why the novel books are split demographically in exactly the same way and magazines also in the same way!

Note:
Teen novels
For boys: Harry Potter(shounen)
For girls: Twighlight(shoujo)
Young adult novels
For boys: The Da Vinci Code(Seinen)
For Girls: 50 shades of Grey(Josei)


Indeed. Although it's true in general that Japanese demographic targeting appears to be a bit extreme. For example, Claymore was published in a shounen magazine aimed at males between the ages of 16 to 21. While I read that Big Comic Spirits targets males from the age of 20 to 25 while Big Comic Superior target males from the ages 26-30. In the west there is no such thing as targering demographics based on 5 year intervals like that. Also, as it was posted before the manga reading demographics are also much wider than the official target audience of a title: Shounen Jump which is supposedly targets 15 year old boys actually reaches audiences from the ages of 10 to 70.

@Spawn29, Also I should point out that "shounen" literally means "few years" so a shounen would be interpreted as a "young male". Not a "kid". Kid is a prepubescent person (which are usually under the age of 12-13). That's "kodomo". Claymore is shounen and targets officially males from the ages 16 to 21, not prepubescent "kids". Adult Swim is full of "teen and young adult shows" not proper "kids" shows like Dexter's Lab and Johnny Bravo. And obviously, those "kids" shows are not targeting the same demographic as "shounen" manga. Specially because reading Shounen manga requires a certain maturity in Japanese literacy which tends to be beyond what the ages that watch Cartoon Network are usually capable off.

Quoting the link: https://future-lab.tokyo/en/news/comparing%20the%20popularity%20by%20age%20and%20gender%20across%20manga%20magazines%20and%20e-comics,

Maki Kobayashi wrote:
The age and gender ratios of readers of the top five manga magazines intended for a male audience with the highest consumption rate in the last year (Weekly Shonen Jump, Weekly Shonen Magazine, Weekly Young Jump, Weekly Shonen Sunday, and Weekly Young Magazine) include men in their thirties as the largest proportion, comprising 20%. At the other end, the primary readers of magazines intended for women (Bessatsu Margaret, Hana to Yume, LaLa, Be Love, Kiss, and You) are women in their forties, who make up 19%.


Although the main cause for this is that younger people read digital stuff like Comico.
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