Forum - View topicHaoliners, Anime, and the Future of Chinese Animation
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5823 Location: Virginia, United States |
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Don't think that was tomdean's fault. He said his piece one time, and you dropped a nuke on him and blamed him for it.
Unless you get Justin to agree with you I am not buying it. I have seen nothing that would imply the growing Chinese market is causing the sustained growth in the Japanese anime industry. Send that one to the Answerman…..
Who knows what the future will bring, but you are ignoring the elephant in the room. Communism and the Chinese government. Sure, China can invest in Japanese production committees to fund new anime like the west, but the Chinese government will assuredly have a chilling effect on Chinese anime productions in China. They will have to be government approved, like everything else in China. Also, I do not see Japan of all places, integrating and being controlled by China (anime wise). |
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Usagi-kun
 Posts: 877 Location: Nashville, TN |
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In a pure sense, they are still finding their footing. Politics aside, they will persevere. That is the determination that China, along with its strong cultural history, and its ravenously growing population will leave a large footprint on any industry they choose to enter. I am all for collaboration, but I would like all parties to maintain a sense of identity in anime as a whole. Instead of lumping all Korean, Chinese, and Japanese productions under the same umbrella, I would like to have each remain definitive and play to those characteristics.
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Jose Cruz
 Posts: 1773 Location: South America |
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Well, the anime industry official reports might disagree with you here. Since they explicitly state that China is driving the growth in the industry revenue overseas. It's true however that the internal Japanese market is also growing at the same time but I cannot think that bigger demand driven by the expansion of the enormous Chinese animation market (which is already larger than the Japanese anime industry according to the report: 150 billion yuan to Japan's 1.8 trillion yen, given typical exchange rate of 17 yen per yuan imply the Chinese market is already about 1.5 times the Japanese) is not helping the industry grow now.
I am not saying that Japanese animation will be "controlled" by China but that Chinese animation will grow and become like the Japanese industry in variety and popularity (internal) but much bigger since China is a much bigger country. Its true that Chinese government is authoritarian but they are pretty liberal with anything besides critizing the Communist party and their members. Some people have even argued that China is more liberal than the US in some ways: as many things that are taboo in the US can be talked about in China. So the reality is more complex than "China authoritarian censorship state that doesn't allow anything to happen", as they are already producing a huge amount of comics and animation (although still heavily derivative from manga and anime). |
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TarsTarkas
Posts: 5823 Location: Virginia, United States |
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@Jose Cruz
When it comes to all those industry statements you are making, anybody can use a variety of means to present something the supposedly proves your point. Not saying you are wrong, but I just don't see it. As I said before, I'll believe it when Justin says the same thing your are. I am hoping China succeeds, cause I like animation from other countries too. But they need to be putting out quality anime, which doesn't seem to be the case now. You can have tons of money and still put out a lot of crap. If they want to compete and perhaps beat the Japanese at this game, then they need to spend some of that money on quality control, and ensure the management team is holding everyone accountable for the work they put out. Right now with all the money they have, it doesn't appear to be going to the right places. |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10420 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Maybe I can do it. I know I'm not answerman, but hopefully you'll accept my answer.
The Chinese market has fluctuated wildly from season to season. Despite the fluctuations, China is generally said to be the second largest market for anime licensing after North America. In other words, Chinese cash is benefiting the market tremendously. That said, more cash is being spent on more shows. More animators are employed. But the budget per show hasn't increased tremendously, and I haven't heard anything about the income of animators increasing at all (but I'm not that certain of this last part). Also very important to be aware that the Chinese censorship rules are pretty strict, although very vague. The actual anime being funded by Chinese Yuan isn't necessarily the anime you like to watch.... but some of it certainly is. Finally, no one knows how long this is going to last. But for the time being, while there are a number of counter points that I've listed above, Chinese licensing is most definitely benefiting the anime industry quite significantly.
-t |
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TarsTarkas
Posts: 5823 Location: Virginia, United States |
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@Tempest
Thanks, a much more reasoned assessment. |
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Jose Cruz
Posts: 1773 Location: South America |
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It's first at least since 2016: http://aja.gr.jp/english/japan-anime-data And it's not "fluctuating wildly" but expanding exponentially. I think in 10 years it will be larger than the Japanese market itself and orders of magnitude larger than the NA market. That's because anime is pretty huge in China, with about 200 million anime fans, while it's an underground interest in the US and China's population is 4 times the US. Even Taiwan had more anime contacts than NA in 2016. Overall NA ranked far behind Asia and Europe in terms of number localization anime contracts. This exponentially expanding huge market is obviously benefiting the industry massively. Although the report points out that the Chinese government might impose a ban on animation distributed through the internet which obviously would be a huge hit. But overall China is a culture that is also much more open to the highly stylized representations of Japanese visual culture compared to Western countries. For instance, a smartphone game that looks like this: 
Had about 200 million downloads in China. That's obviously impossible to occur in US or Europe. |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10420 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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I've been spending a lot of time in Shanghai and Beijing boardrooms lately as well as interviewing Japanese sales agents. I probably know more about the subject of anime biz in China than any Westerner who doesn't work on the field (mind you, I work in the field...) (PS: I'm writing this during hanami with Haoliners) |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10420 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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There's a lot of truth in this, and your other statements, but a couple things to keep in mind. I think, without a doubt, the animation market in China will be larger than Japan within 10 years. But a very big questions is, what % of that content will be coming from Japan ? There is a government supported movement to supplant important content with domestically produced content, and that includes anime. Chinese firms are working hard on creating content in China that satisfies the appetites of Chinese fans. Right now that content is no where near as popular with the core fans as Japanese content, but as the Chinese content continues to improve, that may not always be the case. There is significant expectation that, when there is enough domestic Chinese content to satisfy fans, the quotas on Japanese content will become more strict. In the meantime, I expect the Chinese market for Japanese produced anime to continue to grow, but everyone is the industry remains aware of the fact that it may still fluctuate from season to season, and that, at any time, with zero warning, the Chinese government may impose stricter regulations. Right now, content produced with an eye on the Chinese market, and funded by Chinese companies is more likely to be allowed into the market. This is exactly the niche that Haoliners is focused on.
Speaking with the Chinese platforms and producers, it was explained to me that most of the 100+ million "anime" fans in China don't differentiate between "Chinese anime" and "Japanese anime." They are fans of the big, big titles like One Piece, but they aren't "core fans" like the readers of Anime News Network. The number of core fans who watch a lot of anime and are looking for "Japanese anime" is much lower. I've heard numbers as low as 1 million, but I would feel more comfortable saying "under10 million."
This is very, very true. But it's important to note that game was produced in China. Chinese fans are happy with Chinese content that looks Japanese, but isn't. That game is of no benefit to the Japanese gaming industry. It's a good example of what might happen in anime in the future. You're very, very well informed on this topic, but missing some inside insight. I get to sit with people at Chinese and Japanese licensors, licensees, producers, studios, platforms and associations and get off-the-record answers that they will never publish. My job is to be more informed than most professionals in the industry, and China has been my number 1 focus the last 6 months. That's because, like you, I believe in the importance of the Chinese market for anime. |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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@Jose, They definitely don't seem liberal at all considering what has happened in the last few years. The government has cracked down on local content too. I remember a Chinese period drama having come under the censor's hammer for the actress showing too much chest. And 20 women were arrested producing BL, 8 website shutdown and staff arrested for hosting them: http://cbldf.org/2014/04/chinese-same-sex-slash-fic-targeted-in-porn-crackdown/ @Tempest, is the anime blacklist and seeking approval for foreign media still in effect? animenewsnetwork.com/news/2015-04-01/china-punishes-video-sites-for-hosting-offensive-anime/.86613 what I mean is that as they are screening new content for approval, do titles not approved go on the Ministry of Culture's blacklist? It's not mentioned in the ANN article, but it is specifically cited with snapshot of the blacklist from 2015 at https://chinadigitaltimes.net/2015/03/video-sharing-sites-to-be-punished-for-undesirable-anime/ http://sg.weibo.com/user/2466386627/3826502447617439 Aside from Blood-C, Terror in Resonance, Highschool of the Dead others appear to be Tokyo ESP, Inferno Cop, Tokko among many others They were using that list to actively monitor content on Baidu, Tencent, and Youku Do you think the growth and its effects will mostly be limited to China? I'm comparing it to all of the growth in other sectors so far -- Baidu, Tencent, Youko, Alibaba, XaoiMi, Chinese car companies, etc are all pretty much isolated. |
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Chrono1000
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While censorship is a growing issue in the western market it sounds like it is still a hundred times safer than the Chinese market. If China is going to severely limit the anime market once their domestic animation industry improves than wouldn't counting on the Chinese market literally be building on a bubble? It might be 5 years or it might be 8 years but that bubble is still going to pop which would be a huge problem for the Japanese studios that have become reliant on it.
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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This is a quote from the 2017 report on the page that YOU linked: The Chinese market, however, has a great risk of fluctuation since politics always prevail in China. As can be seen from the past cases, such as the broadcasting ban on foreign animations in 2006 and sanctions against South Korea after the deployment of THAAD, there is a risk of a sudden shrinking of the market due to the political climate. Actually, some are holding off buying Japanese animations in response to a notice requesting to give priority to Chinese IP. We should keep in mind that there is a possibility that the market may return to the size it was before the time of the shopping spree if a full‐fledged ban is applied to Internet distribution as has been done to TV broadcasting. (The above is under the "<VideoDistribution and Chinese Business>" header) I also think China is taking steps to push Japanese anime out of the market as fast as possible. I really enjoyed "The King's Avatar" which should have an OVA out very soon and a second season next year. I expect to see more efforts like that and possibly exponential process improvements in a relatively short span of time. (Also, the "150 billion yuan animation market" of China, includes things like Disney and Dreamworks animated features. For example, Zootopia was the second highest grossing movie (not ANIMATED movie, just "movie") in China in 2016) |
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Mistaken
Posts: 71 |
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i agree with almost everything, especially that even for the quantity of japan-chinese productions, they aren't well done at all (to be hero being the best of their work). however even in japan's best, i bet you'd still see a lot of korean helpers along the way. and the explanation of korean companies and their packed schedules of overseas work triggered me to think of my favourite korean animation company, DR movie. me and my brother were wondering why they haven't done any webtoon adaptation and that could have been the problem: they didn't have enough time. but now as we learned today, line devloped its own animation studio last year, so maybe DR movie (or anyone else) offered and they declined, planning on making their own studio. i really would love to contact them...
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