Forum - View topicAnswerman - What's A "Mainstream" Anime Fan?
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SailorTralfamadore
 Posts: 499 Location: Keep Austin Weeb |
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Except MAL and other anime-tracking sites' stats are kind of useless as a metric of broader, non-otaku popularity (which is what's being referred to in the article). They only measure the kind of people who use those sites and, moreover, use their rating features. That's skewed toward the sort of people who consider themselves "serious anime fans," watch a lot of anime, and thus would need and want a site to keep track of all the stuff they watch... not people who occasionally watch a few popular series among lots of other types of entertainment. This is why Gintama is regularly ranked as one of the top favorite anime on MAL, while few people in the U.S. outside of otaku circles have even heard of it. It reflects the superfan tastes, and says next to nothing about casual fan tastes or how many hits something is getting on Netflix. |
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yuna49
 Posts: 3804 |
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With the constant stream of new viewers frequenting the Recommendations thread at MAL, it might not be as biased as you think. Also, I'm not suggesting that MAL constitutes the equivalent of Nielsen ratings for Netflix shows. On the other hand, comparisons across shows are likely pretty informative. Do you not think that Kuromukuro got (considerably) lower ratings on Netflix than Ajin? |
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Mr. sickVisionz
 Posts: 2173 |
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One end of the spectrum is someone who is willing to watch anime if it's on or it's put in their face but they don't really seek it out. The other end of the spectrum is an otaku.
I think "casual" is tough to label because it's always about "those" people. Everyone here is so into anime that they check a news site dedicated to anime and drop often lengthy replies in the comments. I don't think anyone here can be a good gauge of what "casual" is or what the "casual fan" is into. We're way too deep down the rabbit hole to come up some type of numerical metric. On top of that, most people aren't stuck in one spot on that spectrum. They're constantly moving in one direction or the other. You can be in "hardcore mode" but not have reached whatever arbitrary metric someone comes up with. Everyone is in different circumstances as well and will express their fandom in their own way too. That's why imo I think just looking at how much someone thinks about anime and has it on the brain is a good tool, but only the person themselves can really provide that figure.
That's one hell of a sweeping generalization. Last edited by Mr. sickVisionz on Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5825 Location: Virginia, United States |
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I agree with you. I have found many things (non-japanese) cute here in the United States during my entire life. Advertisers also know that too. |
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Actar
 Posts: 1074 Location: Singapore |
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Not too sure about that. From my perspective as a non-Westerner, MLP is like the first big moe phenomenon to hit the West and look at the reactions... It's not that there isn't anything cute, it's that men liking cute things is not something that you see being encouraged in the West. |
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Jose Cruz
 Posts: 1773 Location: South America |
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Of course western adults are attracted to cute things since its basic human instinct but it is an obvious fact that western culture is extremely repressive in that dimension. Similar to the repression of homosexuality in Iran: for an adult man like me to watch something like Hidamari Sketch is something that Westerners in general are simply unable to conceive. It's completely outside their awareness that adult men can like something like that. I remember when I showed Hidamari Sketch to some family members and they though that there must be something erotic driving the attraction I had for it: the idea of me enjoying it because of what it is seemed beyond conceivable for their minds.
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yuna49
Posts: 3804 |
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As someone who watched Hidamari Sketch in my fifties, you're not alone. It was one of my first shows with a strong moe design, and I didn't find it off-putting at all. Americans, at least, have a much bigger problem watching any foreign content, not just anime, unless it comes from the UK. Foreign cinema is largely relegated to the tiny art-house audience. I can't think of any program I've seen in the past few decades that was produced in continental Europe or Japan and shown by American television networks. So I'm not sure if the reactions you're describing are unique to anime, or just a general disregard among most Americans to anything not produced by Hollywood or that doesn't take place in the US. |
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#hiros7039
Posts: 31 |
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There used to be a page on tvtropes called Sliding Scale Of Anime Obscurity how it defines obscurity places a series how obscure it is to the western world from 0-6.
0 being mainstream that non fans (eg any parent over 40) can recognize and you might find DVDs and toys at Walmart like Pokemon, Sailor Moon, and Z series of Dragon Ball. 1 being everyone who watches anime knows. Reaches pop culture status whether referenced or parodied. eg The Simpsons Treehouse Of Horror references. You might find toys at Barnes & Noble. 2 being that specialized groups know, but anime fans may have heard it. You might find DVDs at Best Buy and merch at Hot Topic. 6 being unknown even on the internet, but may be casual mainstream in Japan like Sazae-san. |
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belldandy.99
 Posts: 11 |
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What is this nonsense about repression related to not liking cute things?
While I can see where you are coming from in the sense that western culture in the very general sense is more conservative in some regards and i suppose specifically, this reference is to the very few that are love over hills with moe in the west and that normally will repress the urge to wear a k-on tshirt in public for example, but this also happens in both contries and not only with moe to begin with, happens generally with anime and other hobbies likewise. In the general spectrum it has nothing to do at all with westerners not in love over hills as the Japanese with moe or "cute things" or feelings or protection or whatever you want to call it . You make it sound as if westerns are as infatuated with moe as japan, and its not true. Its merely a matter of tastes. Spin it the other way and its the same as to why Cowboy bebop is regarded as classic in the west and why its basically one more anime in a random pile in japan. Edgy anime with characters with strong, unique personalities, heavy story driven with distinct art style are more desirable in the west. In the west people dont like to imagine themselves as the protagonists, the west likes to be inspired by strong cool protagonists, likes to watch thought provoking stories, spin it and lets start first with the fascination of Japanese with cute things and the word cute (kawaii) since forever, lets not be hypocrites and pass by the fact that Japanese male in general are infatuated sexually (primarily) with little cute young girls, then go by the fact that a 20 year old something is regarded as old hag already, then then the modern otaku from 2000 onwards started to love to imagine themselves as the protagonists, thus giving birth to the normal uninspiring protagonists that dominate anime nowadays and with its primary fantasy of little cute girls as the center of it, and to boot the love for simple slice of life stories to have a relaxing moment due to social and economic pressure. The west simply has different social background, and loves to take from the Japanese the more exotic features, hence why naruto with its ninja story or bleach with its shinigami theme, or cowboy bebop or eva became huge hits to cite few examples, cuteness what and is most than welcome as well (sakura became a huge hit worldwide), Japanese were the same at some point but the modern HARDCORE otaku changed that with the rise of moe in the second half of the 2000s inclining the balance heavily to one side. Moe is very well understood now, there was a time in which there was much debate and japanese harcore otaku loved to spin it as something that only they could understood (and still going by this discussion) and as something "pure".. always, but the endless sexual innuendos that started to appear with the rise of moe and that have heavily contributed to its total domination says otherwise, which are perfectly fine in my book actually, but lets not be hypocrites over here at least and swear but this "pureness" nonesense. We are talking among peers. |
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SailorTralfamadore
Posts: 499 Location: Keep Austin Weeb |
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Perhaps, but reading recommendations threads doesn't mean you're going to track and rate every single anime. I still think that reflects a level of interest in a particular medium that's not necessarily there with the people who are being discussed in this article as more "casual" fans. I'm not singling out MAL or anime fandom here, I think this can be said of any "tracking" site, as there are with basically everything these days. I don't think Goodreads reviews reflect the average person's opinion of a bestselling book, either. I don't think Letterboxd tells you much about the broader reception of a movie, just what self-identified cinephiles think about it. Etc. etc. Or even the "fan" rating on Rotten Tomatoes. That's despite the fact that plenty of "normies" casually browse those sites for info on books/movies, too. |
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Jose Cruz
Posts: 1773 Location: South America |
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I think that a good example of the vast differences between Japanese and Western (specifically US culture) is the difference in military recruitment adds for each culture:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nNdPPEwguDQ Clearly the first recruitment add is unthinkable for the US or any western country. |
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Spike Terra
 Subscriber Posts: 358 Location: Maryland |
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Most of my friends are casual anime fans. Plenty of them barely watch anime outside of the Toonami block and any shows that they randomly stumble across on Netflix. Which I find as both a blessing and a curse. A blessing because it's easy to figure out what they like, so I can recommend stuff to them. The curse is that they never watch any of the seasonal shows. So if I want to talk about said show, I would have to explain the entire of premise of the show and then some in order to have a conversation with them (so it's less dialogue and more of a lecture).
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stevek504
 Posts: 216 |
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Other than thinking that my taste are much different than the average "anime consumer" I have not given the subject much thought. I have told others that I don't like the trend of moe anime, yet I do like Hidamari Sketch a lot (and hope to see Sentai bring out the final disc soon). I do often marvel at the pictures in "Shelf Life" at what other people are collecting. Many times we don't have a single anime in common. I also look at things like "The Best and Worst of..." and think - how can these shows do so well when the ones I like are doing just so-so? I think anime may be too mainstream to be much of a topic these days. But I am sure to be counted as one of those fans that look to anime as "a relaxing moment - due to social and economic pressure"! |
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TheAnimeRevolutionizer
 Posts: 329 |
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@belldandy.99 @Joshua Zarate, and anyone else not clued in on that part of the situation, video games with anime in it usually counts in a curious zone of what's anime or not. I'm sure you all know about that, but because while there's a lot more different story elements than what is usually found in Anime as a whole, especially these days, the art and presentation usually is what defines games as anime orientated. I grew up more around anime styled video games than anime itself, but it's pretty anime to me overall. Street Fighter and Metal Gear are about as anime to me as Popful Mail and Policenauts.
I do agree with Jose Cruz and Psycho101 and the other moderator around here. I'm not watching too much anime these days because I've got problems of my own to worry about. I still love the thought and imagination that goes into characters, stories, and plot elements, and the wonder and spirit they all come to convey, but these days I'm realizing I want to be more than a connoisseur and a fan. I love hearing about the new shows, but there is kind of more to life than just sitting back and watching the action pass by. |
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