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@vonPeterhof Whoops, I misread the statement I quoted, I was addressing "we don't know if he is a woman." My bad.

Last edited by WizardOfOss on Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

Since about every person in GK (apart from Asirpa and some Ainu) has rather doubtful morality (even our hero Sugimoto has no qualms about killing whoever is in his way), this should basically mean the world shown in GK should be a world without any trans (or other LGBT) people? After all, chances are they would be just as bad as all of the other people...

I think this would be a valid discussion if Kano was the ONLY villain in GK. But she's just one of many.

One thing I was also wondering: would it have made any difference if she was an actual woman? The only adult woman with an active role in the series being a murderous vixen, how is that for framing?

I dunno - Aspira's gamgam seemed pretty villainous to me.

Last edited by AholePony on Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

I'm mostly disappointed at how little substance this episode "review" contained. Nothing about how this was an obvious call out to H.H. Holmes and his exploits in a hotel with secret passages and what-not. I thought I caught wind of some key plot points hinted at in a few scenes and I look to these reviews to confirm my suspicions.... but instead I got this PSA and what will likely be pages of pretty much off-topic ranting from all sides in the forum thread.

Confused

First of all, as a trans woman, I appreciate the issues in this episode being brought up. I would have been rather disappointed if they'd just been glossed over.

WizardOfOss wrote:

One thing I was also wondering: would it have made any difference if she was an actual woman?

Trans women are actual women.

The term you're looking for is "cis", short for cisgender, which is the counterpart to trans, short for transgender. Referring to women who aren't trans as "actual" women is incredibly insulting to trans women. I assume (or hope) at least that this wasn't your intent.

WizardOfOss wrote:

Let's be real: Golden Kamuy is very much a men's story. The prisoners: all male. Army: all male. Shinsengumi: all male. Ainu: mostly male, with Asirpa standing out as quite a tomboy. About the only realistic way to work in another female character in the story without making it feel like a stretch is to have her actually be a man.

First of all, trans women are not "actually men". Second of all, this is absurd. You yourself acknowledge that there are some cis women in the show. There is absolutely zero reason they can't include other cis women in the story. The idea that they have to make a female villain transgender because "this is a man's story" is frankly insulting.

SailorTralfamadore wrote:

As I said, I think it's all about framing. I've liked my fair share of LGBT villain characters (just see my Lupin reviews) but I think the point is that a) you can't tie their villainy in with their sexuality or gender identity -- which as I said in the review, I think GK tries to do but not very successfully -- and b) even if you've got that taken care of, try not to reference really common harmful tropes that are used to hurt or cast suspicion on the real-life community in question. Give your trans woman criminal a motive other than beauty or body-modification. If it's a gay character, don't make it about them preying on straight people or make them pedophiles. If they're bi, don't make it about them cheating on their partner or being duplicitous or ultra-promiscuous. And so on and so forth.

Thanks for the reply Rose. Your reply clears up a few more things for me, at least (took a bit of rephrasing and the Lupin/Orange examples for me to get it but I got there Laughing

)

For everyone else that's so against the review: have you considered that it's a bad thing that Kano's only actions and motivations in the episode effectively consisted of a series "greatest hits" of the negative stereotypes/cliches/tropes that have been used to previously portray trans women? While I disagree with the final score myself (I personally felt the episode was of the same prisoner-of-the-week thing GK has going on sometimes), the episode review dealt with Kano's characterization, how it relates to real life issues (which is a good thing because anime isn't just a medium for pure entertainment), and also addresses some episode positives. It was fine.

A bunch of rude and belligerent posts, and responses to those posts, have been removed. People need to remember this is just a REVIEW. It is not some set in stone commandant that you have to follow. If you have a different opinion then good for you. That does not invalidate the other person's opinion as they are just as entitled to their own view. Personally insulting users, including staff, however is not tolerated. Neither is blatant trolling. As has been said countless times you can disagree all you want with a review/reviewer/other user but do so civilly.

Mad_Scientist wrote:

Trans women are actual women.

The term you're looking for is "cis", short for cisgender, which is the counterpart to trans, short for transgender. Referring to women who aren't trans as "actual" women is incredibly insulting to trans women. I assume (or hope) at least that this wasn't your intent.

It wasn't. English isn't my native language, and this was already an attempt NOT to be insulting in any way. I failed....

Mad_Scientist wrote:

First of all, trans women are not "actually men".

Than the big question is: is Kano a trans woman, or just a man disguised as a woman? At what point does one become the other?

Mad_Scientist wrote:

Second of all, this is absurd. You yourself acknowledge that there are some cis women in the show. There is absolutely zero reason they can't include other cis women in the story. The idea that they have to make a female villain transgender because "this is a man's story" is frankly insulting.

Again, not meant to be insulting. But think about it: how many women do you think there were in the early 20th century Japanese army? How many woman do you think were sent to the (all-male) prison in Abashiri? How many women were with the Shinsengumi?

Let's put it another way: if Kano was a cis woman, there's basically no way she would have been one of the tattooed prisoners.

Of course it would be possible to include woman in other ways in the story, but to me it does make sense to have a male prisoner that wants to hide his identity to disguise as a woman. Probably not something that only happens in fiction.

No offense taken.

As for the question, it seems very much like Kano is a trans woman, but even that wasn't the intent, the portrayal still has issues. Because while trans women are not "men disguised as women", that's the way a lot of people in society view them. There is in fact a whole trope that views trans women as just men who like to "trick" others into thinking they're a woman.

So even if the author meant for Kano to just ACTUALLY be a man, and not trans, it still falls into all the negative tropes about trans women, with all the disturbing implications.

But then is society the real problem, or this work of fiction?

That's also the duality of the whole situation: on the one hand we want everyone to be treated equal, but at the same time every fictional villain that isn't a a straight white (or well, Asian in case of anime) cis male is under a lot more scrutiny.

Also something I'm wondering: this is a Japanese series. How is this whole situation seen in Japan? I'm Dutch, and I do feel it's already a much less delicate topic here than it is in the US.

(BTW: I did have a more nuanced version of this post in mind, however I'm already pretty late for going to the office. I'll be back... Wink

)

To be honest I didn’t even remotely focus on all the negative stuff brought up in the review.

Soon as they revealed Kano to be trans, my thought was, “Oh, she’s trans. Ok.” and just moved on.

I get it probably isn’t the “woke” thing to do, but I don’t really cling to what is shown once a character is revealed to be trans, or bi, or anything on the LGBTQIA+...er...”spectrum”(sorry couldn’t think of a better term), and constantly keep my ears perked for any and all missteps.

Unless it goes out of its way to do really toxic stuff that is obvious even to someone like me.

So when I saw this episode I wasn’t seeing all the greatest hits of poor transwoman portrayals, but instead I just saw a transwoman who happened to be a serial killer in a series where nearly every named character is a murderer, thief, lowlife, or other such nefarious people.

I understand full well that’s part of the privileges I have as a cishet viewer. I realize that because I have a degree of separation in that area, I can go, “Oh hey, they’re trans, that’s neat” and just continue on my viewing unabated. I’m not trans, or gay, or bi, or asexual, etc. so I don’t have to constantly sit there worrying about every little step taken with a character because media portrayals of these kind of characters are few and far between in the grand scheme of things and often are not positive portrayals.

Because I don’t have to worry about those things, they often just slip right past me. I admit I loved this episode while watching it and I can’t just bottle that enjoyment back up and pretend I didn’t like this episode anymore. However I am always more than willing to listen those affected have to say, and slowly adjust things over time. It is very much possible to both enjoy problematic works and acknowledge that they also make parts of the audience uncomfortable.

Man I must be showing my age when I never expected this to occur because of the episode. Granted I did not read the review, I just came here to discuss my favorite part of the episodespoiler[the drunks all talking about penes and Asirpa having a dreamy look that made me laugh so hard.]On topic though I never see this as a bad stereotype until people bring it up. I just thought the villian was using a tactic for survivability. Also if we are going some grounded realism this would make sense given the time period. Confused

SailorTralfamadore wrote:

Give your trans woman criminal a motive other than beauty or body-modification.

I thought the motive was immortality. Kano was selectively harvesting body parts like Asirpa's eyes because of their uniqueness and, perhaps, because they promised more immortality than others' eyes.

Mad_Scientist wrote:

So even if the author meant for Kano to just ACTUALLY be a man, and not trans, it still falls into all the negative tropes about trans women, with all the disturbing implications.

I thought it was obvious by the end that Kano was a man disguising himself as a woman. You can't really be arguing that it has somehow become unacceptable to write stories with plot lines like that. Not every story when a man so disguises himself need be viewed through some prism of whether it "falls into all the negative tropes about trans women." And if the argument is that it's Kano's acts that raises this concern, I agree with the other posters who said that essentially no one except Asirpa and the Ainu have any real qualms about murder. Kano's just one of many bloodthirsty conniving men.

What conclusions should we draw about Lin in Hakata Tonkotsu Ramens, a heterosexual male who cross-dresses as a school girl? Lin is a cold-blooded assassin, but so is everyone else in that show. The fact that he dresses as a woman is treated as a personal fetish with some comedic value.

There are even more stories with women who disguise themselves as men. There need not be any sexual implications in these plots at all. Sexual identity never crossed my mind when Youko in Twelve Kingdoms or Shurrei in Saiunkoku Monogatari, or Mulan for that matter, disguised themselves as men. That they felt the need to do so was clearly a result of patriarchal attitudes and institutions, so all these cases have a slight political subtext. But the politics of the situation is hardly the focus of these plots.

I thought Kano was a man disguised as a woman rather than a transwoman. Although he did use female body parts, it seemed that he mainly presented as a woman to hide his identity and to attract men, whose stronger body parts were of more value to him.

That puts him more into the "trap" trope to me (and the emphasis on the "dick-sensei" joke seems to support this - the series has made dick jokes before, but they really pounded away at it (npi) this time), which has its own problems, as Rose pointed out. But I felt it was mitigated somewhat by his reasons for doing so within this story. Disguising as a woman was more effective for him than looking younger with a mustache or glasses or some other lame male disguise, and the cannibalism is kind of on a par with the other bizarre characters this show revels in.

As for the episode itself, I laughed a few times, but mostly it didn't really do much with its setup and execution to make it all that entertaining to me.

Rose wrote:

He even gets some of his own musical moments, like the use of the jawharp in his most ridiculous scenes.

As a fellow musicologist (albeit without a doctorate), this comment alone made my day.

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EP. REVIEW: Golden Kamuy