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NEWS: Rurouni Kenshin: Hokkaido Arc Manga Resumes in June


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Stuart Smith



Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 1298
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:33 am Reply with quote
Wyvern wrote:
trunkschan90 wrote:
There's more zero tolerance to drug use in Japan than pedophilia it seems. I mean Paris Hilton and the Rolling Stones are banned from entering Japan because of their drug convictions.


You're right, and now that you mention it, one of the ending songs to Rurouni Kenshin (The 4th Avenue Cafe by L'Arc En Ciel) was abruptly removed from the show after only airing four times, because the band's drummer, Sakura, was arrested for drug possession. Sakura was permanently kicked off of the band, served two years in prison, and the single for that song was banned from sale for eight years.

A MUCH harsher penalty than Watsuki got.


It helps to separate previously legal and commercially available DVDs from in-person child molestation. Some people in this thread seem to have the idea people can walk down the street, grab a kid and sexually assault them and only get a slap on the wrist in Japan.

While it was never revealed officially, all signs point to these being former commercial DVDs rather than some underground human trafficking snuff films. In which case, it's obvious drugs would be more harmful to a society than these are and why the punishment was more lax.

I echo statements that I'm glad the manga is back, but I always assumed it was temporary given how light an issue it was. Most of the outcry came from westerners, like most other 'scandals'.

-Stuart Smith
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Hawkmonger



Joined: 30 May 2014
Posts: 440
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:42 am Reply with quote
This does have me questioning weather to renew my Jump subscription or not.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 555
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:45 am Reply with quote
Stuart Smith wrote:
I echo statements that I'm glad the manga is back, but I always assumed it was temporary given how light an issue it was. Most of the outcry came from westerners, like most other 'scandals'.

What is it with people being all "stupid westerners don't get Japan"? For one, there was a lot of outcry in Japan, too - even if it was always taken for granted that the manga would come back (because it does still make a lot of money). It's not like Japanese society as a whole is totally chill about child porn, just because the law is (still) pretty lax. It's not like there are no Japanese groups trying to do something about the sexual abuse of children.

Also, I'm not sure what you're trying to get at by "commercial DVDs". Just because these DVDs were commercially legally available doesn't mean their content was innocent. Even if it was a "gravure" DVD, those still, at the very least, involve real, actual children presented in real, actual erotic context. Have you ever seen a child gravure DVD? I've been unfortunate enough to have come aross websites that sold that sort of shit back in the day, and it's every bit as disturbing and upsetting as you can (hopefully) imagine. And just because they were legally commercially available doesn't mean that Japanese society in general doesn't regard them as sick crap enjoyed by sick freaks.

I don't give a shit about 2D lolicon or shotacon, but these are real children. There were real kids involved in the making of these commercial DVDs, real directors, photographers, companies - a real business built on abusing children. I'm not entirely sure how you can say that this is not as harmful to society as some musician taking drugs.


Last edited by SHD on Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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pirateaddict



Joined: 20 Dec 2017
Posts: 117
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:56 am Reply with quote
Kokuryu Daimao wrote:
Fandoms are a funny thing.

This basically comes down to "can you separate the person from their work?"

For people who make a living off of their actual appearances, like actors or spokespeople, its hard to separate the fiction from reality. So when they behave contrary to the preconceived image they have created, people generally react negatively and drastically. Because they are emotionally connected to the image, they feel a sense of betrayal. So much that is nearly impossible for the actor to continue their previous career paths.

This can also extends into the world of athletes as well, but its easier for people to separate their life from their work. How many times have people heard reports of an athletes behavior off the field, but they continue to play because of their performance on the field. Granted, its not happening as often as it used to, but it happened enough to show that people can separate the person from the work. Sure, he beat his GF up, but did you see him knock out whats-his-name in the 8th round?

Indirect creators, such as artists, mangaka, writers, programmers, etc. fall into a different area where its easier for people to separate the personal lives of the artist from their works because when people hear the name they don't imagine the artist's face, but the works they created. They are not emotionally connected to the creator, but the world that was created.

This happens more often than most realize. How many times has a series been delayed due to a mangaka being sick and instead of feeling concern for the health of the mangaka, peoples' first reaction is anger that there is a delay.

This happens across all mediums as well. Take the series A Song of Ice and Fire as an example. I know more people who are more emotionally connected to the fictional characters than the well-being of the writer. "R.R. Martin should just hurry up and finish writing Game of Thrones before he dies" is something I hear often. Concern over how he lives his life and his general health extends only to the point of him finishing his work.

With all that said, I can see them deciding to resume work on Rurouni Kenshin.

We're talking about a long running series with a sizable fan base.
Fans who are generally more connected to that fictional world than its creator.
Additionally, we're talking about Japan here.

A society that pretty much embody the phrase "Work hard, play hard"

A culture that has a long history of separating work life and home life. So much that I've seen business people who as soon as the work day ends will drink and sing late into the night. But as soon as the next work day begins they are back to the grind. As long as you do your job, and perform as you should, no one cares what you did the night before.

For those who can't separate the two, that's also valid. All it shows is that they are more emotionally attached to the crime than to the person or the work. I can sympathize with that. All I can say is boycott and hope the free market sorts it out.

He was caught. He was punished. He is now resuming work. If he continues to produce at the level he did before this incident, people will move past it. If his production drops, or if sales do not meet expectations, he will be let go.
Its a business. It always was.

An excellent post which sums up my feelings exactly. It's no surprise that the manga is now resuming, it's popular and has alot of fans.

Let the people decide what happens next, I doubt it will adversely affect his followers in Japan but it will be interesting to see what happens in the Western world where such things are much more frowned upon.
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Łukasz Kawosz



Joined: 11 Jul 2017
Posts: 77
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:00 am Reply with quote
Songster01 wrote:
Seeing individuals decide that their need for more fictional content is much more important than adequately punishing a known pedophile is both sad and extremely sickening.


So what kind of punishments you want to see to him happen before you are satisfied and declare that justice has been done?

I find the comments comparing CP to drugs funny, because CP wasn't used by white/anglo people to oppress asian people and keep them under their rule.
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Codeanime93



Joined: 28 Jul 2017
Posts: 571
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:00 am Reply with quote
People are going to have to try I guess to separate the work from the person. I mean hell we all forget that Edgar Allan Poe was a creepy pedo guy who had the hots for his 13 year old cousin and look how well quoted and remembered he is despite all that.

Last edited by Codeanime93 on Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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tomdean



Joined: 22 Jan 2018
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:10 am Reply with quote
Morality has always been impossible to judge; some people think eating beef is immoral, some people have no problems with espousing Christian values yet support their wife- cheating presidents, Some people think it is not okay to eat dogs, yet have no problems with capital punishment. Some people think killing foetuses is immoral, even if it kills the mother.

There is no ONE objective or even correct value to morals, only society has the power to decide. This would be an interesting case - if Kenshin sells well, clearly significant number of people align with his values, and not the people who are disgusted by it.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 555
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:27 am Reply with quote
tomdean wrote:
There is no ONE objective or even correct value to morals, only society has the power to decide. This would be an interesting case - if Kenshin sells well, clearly significant number of people align with his values, and not the people who are disgusted by it.

You can't seriously suggest that sales decides this. For one, as high profile as this case may have been, there's still a lot of people who don't know about it. Casual readers, people who don't keep up with tabloids, fans of the movie who don't read the manga, etc. A lot of people who may buy the manga are not necessarily well-informed about the reason of the hiatus. And there are still the people who might buy the manga but don't "align" with Watsuki's "values".

Clearly one of the reasons, hell, likely the main reason for why this is happening is that they sank way too much money into the franchise to allow it to stop now. Once the manga starts up again this will be given the kurorekishi treatment and it will never be spoken of ever again.
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Stevangelion



Joined: 08 Feb 2017
Posts: 30
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:31 am Reply with quote
I love how every one of you are acting like you don’t have a loli picture in your folders or haven’t watched a questionable anime series that sexualizes children. Not defending him, but the hypocrisy in this thread is hilarious. I'd love to see how you people react if the government were to go through your computer. I’d pay to watch that livestream.
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tomdean



Joined: 22 Jan 2018
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:33 am Reply with quote
SHD wrote:
there's still a lot of people who don't know about it.


That's a good point but I'd like to think there aren't too many who didn't know - I mean it was plastered all over the news.

For argument's sake, imagine it was a HUGE sell, by then the topic will inevitably come up, would that then, indicate that people knowingly bought his work?

In the end, I just want to know the sales figures out of curiosity, that's all
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 555
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:33 am Reply with quote
Stevangelion wrote:
I love how every one of you are acting like you don’t have a loli picture in your folders or haven’t watched a questionable anime series that sexualizes children. Not defending him, but the hypocrisy in this thread is hilarious. I'd love to see how you people react if the government were to go through your computer. I’d pay to watch that livestream.

Pssst this is not about loli pictures and questionable anime series. This is about real children.

tomdean wrote:
That's a good point but I'd like to think there aren't too many who didn't know - I mean it was plastered all over the news.

Not everyone follows these sort of news closely - not everyone is that interested. "Huh, yeah, I heard sensei did something, but what was it? DUI? drugs? molested someone? eh, who knows, likely it wasn't all that serious."

tomdean wrote:
For argument's sake, imagine it was a HUGE sell, by then the topic will inevitably come up, would that then, indicate that people knowingly bought his work?

As I said, I'm willing to bet money that this announcement is the last word that anyone officially involved will ever say on this topic. Maybe Watsuki will write something. But after the manga restarts everyone will pretend this never happened.

Anyway, I really don't think sales figures mean or justify anything. From the underinformed readers to the people who might buy the manga but still think that Watsuki is a disgusting freak, a manga selling well doesn't mean that people agree with whatever its creator thinks and does.


Last edited by SHD on Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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青白



Joined: 30 May 2012
Posts: 184
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:46 am Reply with quote
Why are people so butt hurt over this? The man at least hasn’t hurt anybody yet to fulfill his sex fantasy.
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tomdean



Joined: 22 Jan 2018
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:57 am Reply with quote
青白 wrote:
Why are people so butt hurt over this? The man at least hasn’t hurt anybody yet to fulfill his sex fantasy.


That's a different topic and probably not very popular point of view. However, if he did process porn with REAL Children, then yes somebody was hurt. Last I checked, it was widely reported that most of the 'actresses' were either coerced or tricked.


Last edited by tomdean on Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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DesolatePsyche



Joined: 06 Jan 2018
Posts: 8
Location: Estonia
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:03 am Reply with quote
glad he is back to work. Hopefully will able to finish his Manga the way he wants.
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Lynx Amali



Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Posts: 1203
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:07 am Reply with quote
There's nothing akin to workplace denial in any country as far as I'm aware for people suggesting that. I'd think it might actually be outright illegal in some places too?

He's been prosecuted for it, no? Then that should've been the end of the debate. There's a lot of stuff in court that never goes public, and rightfully so, given the reactions to this news in this very thread alone.

Hate the man, whatever, but there might a **** ton of info that might not ever be made public that might've got him off lighter than people would like.
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