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NEWS: Rurouni Kenshin: Hokkaido Arc Manga Resumes in June


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Lord Oink



Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 876
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:20 am Reply with quote
SHD wrote:
Have you ever seen a child gravure DVD? I've been unfortunate enough to have come aross websites that sold that sort of shit back in the day, and it's every bit as disturbing and upsetting as you can (hopefully) imagine


Junior Idol stuff is completely legal, even to this day. I can link you to dozens of websites which either sell the disks or just rip the videos and pictures, and nothing would happen, because its not against the law (well, besides.the rips/pirating, I mean... Laughing ) Its not some darkweb underground black market. Hell, you can find the stuff on YouTube with millions of views. People in charge know. The law don't care. Even in America.

The reason it matters if it was a commercial product or not is because morality is relative, legality is not. Until the day something becomes illegal, it doesnt matter if you find it morally wrong. And vice-versa. If it was commercial, then there was consent in the making of the product. Money was exchanged. It was a transaction. It was legal at the time. If it was a home made video of him preying on kids down the road, then yeah, lock the creep up,since that was never legal. Like how theres a difference between simulated rape porn and actually filming a real rape. Big difference. Japan, thankfully, looked at the context of the crime and could realize the big difference in scenarios and deemed Watsuki was no threat to society.
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Calico



Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Posts: 356
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:26 am Reply with quote
Man, this is disgusting and depressing. Not even a year and he's back to writing the series like nothing ever happened?

I can only hope that Viz doesn't continue to translate the series after this.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 555
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:29 am Reply with quote
Lord Oink wrote:
SHD wrote:
Have you ever seen a child gravure DVD? I've been unfortunate enough to have come aross websites that sold that sort of shit back in the day, and it's every bit as disturbing and upsetting as you can (hopefully) imagine


Junior Idol stuff is completely legal, even to this day. I can link you to dozens of websites which either sell the disks or just rip the videos and pictures, and nothing would happen, because its not against the law (well, besides.the rips/pirating, I mean... Laughing ) Its not some darkweb underground black market. Hell, you can find the stuff on YouTube with millions of views. People in charge know. The law don't care. Even in America.

I wasn't talking about "junior idol" stuff. I was talking about child gravure. It was never called "junior idol", not even then.

Also, my entire point was that just because it's legal doesn't mean it's A-OK and that Japanese society at large things its A-OK and not sick shit for sick freaks.

Lord Oink wrote:
If it was commercial, then there was consent in the making of the product.

Dude.

Dude, just stop for a moment and think about what you're saying. You're talking about consent coming from children who are not legally able to consent. (No, not even in Japan.)


Last edited by SHD on Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:34 am; edited 2 times in total
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karyuudo0127



Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 87
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:32 am Reply with quote
Lynx Amali wrote:
There's nothing akin to workplace denial in any country as far as I'm aware for people suggesting that. I'd think it might actually be outright illegal in some places too?

He's been prosecuted for it, no? Then that should've been the end of the debate. There's a lot of stuff in court that never goes public, and rightfully so, given the reactions to this news in this very thread alone.

Hate the man, whatever, but there might a **** ton of info that might not ever be made public that might've got him off lighter than people would like.


You need to understand that this is Japan, and the rules are different. Possession for this type of material is equivalent of J-walking. Not only that, the industry that he works in has many MANY people who are in possession of such material. Westerners need to realize that things aren't the same outside of Japan's borders on how this material is viewed. Even my wife (who is a Japanese national) didn't feel that Watsuki deserved any punishment for this considering the field he works in. Heck, Watsuki's wife stayed with him, too, and wrote some side story to RK during his hiatus.

Side note, when watching Japanese TV the other day, I noticed that they will be airing the 3 Rurouni Kenshin live action movies on terrestrial TV, which means enough time has past since the incident... so to hear about the manga resuming is no surprise.


Last edited by karyuudo0127 on Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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karyuudo0127



Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 87
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:34 am Reply with quote
Lord Oink wrote:
SHD wrote:
Have you ever seen a child gravure DVD? I've been unfortunate enough to have come aross websites that sold that sort of shit back in the day, and it's every bit as disturbing and upsetting as you can (hopefully) imagine


Junior Idol stuff is completely legal, even to this day. I can link you to dozens of websites which either sell the disks or just rip the videos and pictures, and nothing would happen, because its not against the law (well, besides.the rips/pirating, I mean... Laughing ) Its not some darkweb underground black market. Hell, you can find the stuff on YouTube with millions of views. People in charge know. The law don't care. Even in America.

The reason it matters if it was a commercial product or not is because morality is relative, legality is not. Until the day something becomes illegal, it doesnt matter if you find it morally wrong. And vice-versa. If it was commercial, then there was consent in the making of the product. Money was exchanged. It was a transaction. It was legal at the time. If it was a home made video of him preying on kids down the road, then yeah, lock the creep up,since that was never legal. Like how theres a difference between simulated rape porn and actually filming a real rape. Big difference. Japan, thankfully, looked at the context of the crime and could realize the big difference in scenarios and deemed Watsuki was no threat to society.


This ^^^^^^ As Westerners we may not agree with Japanese society and certain things that allowed there, but what Lord Oink has stated above is a fact.
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karyuudo0127



Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 87
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:41 am Reply with quote
Kokuryu Daimao wrote:
Fandoms are a funny thing.

This basically comes down to "can you separate the person from their work?"

For people who make a living off of their actual appearances, like actors or spokespeople, its hard to separate the fiction from reality. So when they behave contrary to the preconceived image they have created, people generally react negatively and drastically. Because they are emotionally connected to the image, they feel a sense of betrayal. So much that is nearly impossible for the actor to continue their previous career paths.

This can also extends into the world of athletes as well, but its easier for people to separate their life from their work. How many times have people heard reports of an athletes behavior off the field, but they continue to play because of their performance on the field. Granted, its not happening as often as it used to, but it happened enough to show that people can separate the person from the work. Sure, he beat his GF up, but did you see him knock out whats-his-name in the 8th round?

Indirect creators, such as artists, mangaka, writers, programmers, etc. fall into a different area where its easier for people to separate the personal lives of the artist from their works because when people hear the name they don't imagine the artist's face, but the works they created. They are not emotionally connected to the creator, but the world that was created.

This happens more often than most realize. How many times has a series been delayed due to a mangaka being sick and instead of feeling concern for the health of the mangaka, peoples' first reaction is anger that there is a delay.

This happens across all mediums as well. Take the series A Song of Ice and Fire as an example. I know more people who are more emotionally connected to the fictional characters than the well-being of the writer. "R.R. Martin should just hurry up and finish writing Game of Thrones before he dies" is something I hear often. Concern over how he lives his life and his general health extends only to the point of him finishing his work.

With all that said, I can see them deciding to resume work on Rurouni Kenshin.

We're talking about a long running series with a sizable fan base.
Fans who are generally more connected to that fictional world than its creator.
Additionally, we're talking about Japan here.

A society that pretty much embody the phrase "Work hard, play hard"

A culture that has a long history of separating work life and home life. So much that I've seen business people who as soon as the work day ends will drink and sing late into the night. But as soon as the next work day begins they are back to the grind. As long as you do your job, and perform as you should, no one cares what you did the night before.

For those who can't separate the two, that's also valid. All it shows is that they are more emotionally attached to the crime than to the person or the work. I can sympathize with that. All I can say is boycott and hope the free market sorts it out.

He was caught. He was punished. He is now resuming work. If he continues to produce at the level he did before this incident, people will move past it. If his production drops, or if sales do not meet expectations, he will be let go.
Its a business. It always was.


Exactly this. Well said.
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louis6578



Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 1584
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:57 am Reply with quote
I dunno how to feel about this. We can never know how truly sorry the man is, nor the extent of his sick indulgences, because the media will likely present him as positively as possible.
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Banjo



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 709
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:06 am Reply with quote
This is disgusting.
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mulletZERO



Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 76
Location: USA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:29 am Reply with quote
Quote:
At the time of the manga's hiatus, Shueisha commented that it is taking this news seriously, and that Watsuki expresses deep regret.


Yeah, maybe because he got caught. Rolling Eyes
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sonryu



Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 126
Location: LI, NY
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:37 am Reply with quote
I'm glad RK is continuing - it's always been one of my all-time favorite titles!
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Maidenoftheredhand



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 2411
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:52 am Reply with quote
All the apologists on this thread are really disturbing. Stop saying he didn't hurt any real children. Yes he did. He contributed to an industry that hurt real children. These were not 2D drawings.

And also stop saying it is different in Japan. Stop speaking for Japan as a whole. Many people in Japan think this is ridiculous too if you read the comments.

Anyways I definitely will not give another cent to this series.
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mc55



Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 42
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:01 am Reply with quote
I'm not commenting on if folks should continue to read this or not. That is not the place of anyone and their own conscience. I myself read second-hand ones to avoid being this man even one cent. But again, to each their own. I am saying that I am tired of hearing either a) defenses of this vile, pathetic man who hurt children, or b) "oh well", as if it doesn't matter.

I don't give two craps about values dissonance. Japan might legally be lenient, but I just don't believe most Japanese are okay with this. Because pedophilia is wrong and sick. Period. And if this opinion makes me some guy in the West only concerned with scandals, so be it. This isn't the majority of scandals of awful behavior but debatable as to what the response should be. This is EONS worse. So call mock me for being over-sensitive. I don't care.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 555
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:07 am Reply with quote
karyuudo0127 wrote:
This ^^^^^^ As Westerners we may not agree with Japanese society and certain things that allowed there, but what Lord Oink has stated above is a fact.

Thing is, you don't get to speak for all of Japanese society. Japan is not a monolith, and in fact there are many in Japan who are not OK with this, and think it's ridiculous, shameful and cynical. Just because the law is lenient on something, and business is cynical enough not to care what makes money as long as the money is flowing, doesn't mean it's objectively OK or that society as a whole is OK with it.
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Lynx Amali



Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Posts: 1203
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:11 am Reply with quote
karyuudo0127 wrote:

You need to understand that this is Japan, and the rules are different.


Possession was made illegal in 2014. It's illegal. I'll admit I'm not prone to as much Japanese law as I would like to be for my original post to mean much in terms of how the court systems over in Japan work (was going from personal experience really) but the "rules are different" angle really isn't something I care about that much in this case. Had this been before 2014? Sure, maybe. But possession of stuff like this was made illegal back in 2014. One would've thought someone sane would've pitched it given the three year space between when it was made illegal and when Watsuki was caught.

Shueisha should've waited longer none the less. The author of Toriko had several years between his arrest and when he was able to create something new and most people seem relatively okay with that, given I don't think most people were aware of that fiasco when Toriko first became a thing or cared at that point.
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katscradle



Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Posts: 469
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:25 am Reply with quote
I echo wondering about how VIZ and other publishers will handle the series coming back. There was a writer and adapter in the states that recently plead guilty to possession and distribution of child porn who, also worked on some blockbuster titles for VIZ. Before the guilty plea, there were church leaders and comic industry professionals among another rewriter that worked for VIZ who accepted his request to write character witness testimonies and defenses against incarceration. As far as I know even subsequent to the writer being charged there haven’t been reprints of the books where he’s credited (name right on the front cover sometimes). This has led people to speculate if it’s an issue.
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