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EP. REVIEW: Sword Art Online Alternative: Gun Gale Online


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Cam0



Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 3849
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:34 pm Reply with quote
I very much agree with a lot of the stuff NeverConvex said so expertly. The show seemed to want to dramatize situations at the expense of logic with lines like "ARE YOU IMMORTAL?!". Or sometimes dramatize death while other times treating it as a game mechanic.
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darkchibi07



Joined: 15 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:58 pm Reply with quote
So with this final battle, is it safe to say that LLENN is the most foul, cruel ,and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on? Surprised

I still had a good time with this show especially with the characters being so much fun to watch. Too bad this isn't exactly the sharpest Studio 3Hz production especially for an SAO title; I seriously believe most of the good staff are working on Black Fox at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if there's going to be more seasons of this despite disc sales so it can act like a stopgap until the next SAO season like whats happening now.
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Key
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:07 pm Reply with quote
Alternative Ice wrote:
The show was more depicting Pito as just an asshole than evil. LLENN is still friends with her after all is said and done.

I entirely agree with this assessment.

NeverConvex wrote:
None of that suggests to me that GGO induces a sense of immersion so deep that people would start roleplaying as their characters in their characters' death sequences. Instead it just seems like that was an arbitrary narrative choice made because it felt dramatically standard, and because it was familiar from similar titles, despite that there wasn't much in-world justification for it here exactly because there's no 'real death' here while there was in each of the prior isekai titles in this brand.

Clearly you've never played with true role-players, then. I've seen a number of players get visibly upset over the unplanned death of a character in a tabletop RPG that they have a lot of time and effort invested in, even if the death is recoverable. (Heck, I've been guilty of that myself.) I'd have to think that the experience would be even sharper in a VR setting.
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angelmcazares
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Joined: 23 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:11 pm Reply with quote
darkchibi07 wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if there's going to be more seasons of this despite disc sales so it can act like a stopgap until the next SAO season like whats happening now.

But Alicization starts airing in 3 months.
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Alternative Ice



Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 88
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:23 pm Reply with quote
darkchibi07 wrote:
So with this final battle, is it safe to say that LLENN is the most foul, cruel ,and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on? Surprised


That rabbit has a vicious streak a mile wide, she's a killer!
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NeverConvex



Joined: 08 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:39 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
Clearly you've never played with true role-players, then. I've seen a number of players get visibly upset over the unplanned death of a character in a tabletop RPG that they have a lot of time and effort invested in, even if the death is recoverable. (Heck, I've been guilty of that myself.) I'd have to think that the experience would be even sharper in a VR setting.


This kind've reaction by players of games is familiar to me as well (mostly from playing Everquest and League of legends), but GGO;A doesn't parse like a show about "true role-players," death in GGO appears to be without any noted consequence (except that they lose the Squad Jam, of course), and the death scenes involving Pito's kills weren't as far as I could tell framed as people just getting really mad that their character was dying in a videogame (which is certainly very common, as I noted... umm, somewhere above).

Rather, they were used to frame Pitohui as sadistic and amoral, complete with overwrought, vengeful speeches from her victims and constant stereotypical villain cackling from Pitohui. Her victims weren't yelling, "You got lucky! Your class/weapon/character is overpowered! You're just higher level than me! This is unfair! Get a life! You suck!" or variations on these at her, as you might expect of a gamer angry they're getting killed. Instead, they were morally condemning her actions, calling her a psychopath or a monster, screaming in disbelief that she could possibly have fun struggling to the fake-videogame-death with them, abandoning their pacific principles by classifying her as 'inhuman vermin' so that they could try to videogame-murder her, etc.
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Cam0



Joined: 13 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:58 pm Reply with quote
Nothing in the show seemed to suggest that any of the players were roleplaying. And something like Squad Jam is definitely NOT going to be attended by roleplayers since PvP is highly competitive. PvP is about taking the game mechanics to their breaking point (like using dead bodies as indestructible shields) to have every little advantage over other players. Squad Jam is going to be like among the most gamey ways to play the game. Roleplayers are going to want to try to stay as far away from anything that reminds them that they are playing a video game so as to not break immersion.
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Joshua Zarate
I Pause For PantsuI Pause For Pantsu


Joined: 12 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:26 pm Reply with quote
That was a nice ending. That kiss between Elsa and Karen, though. Embarassed The characters were nice and engaging, the battles were quite thrilling, and as someone who has played video games for almost their entire life, the behavior of certain players on display in this show were excessive, but not unheard of in my experience. ‘Twas fitting in my view. I sincerely hope that more seasons can be made of this spin-off as I see many potential enjoyable storylines resulting from it.
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Key
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:49 pm Reply with quote
NeverConvex wrote:
Rather, they were used to frame Pitohui as sadistic and amoral, complete with overwrought, vengeful speeches from her victims and constant stereotypical villain cackling from Pitohui. Her victims weren't yelling, "You got lucky! Your class/weapon/character is overpowered! You're just higher level than me! This is unfair! Get a life! You suck!" or variations on these at her, as you might expect of a gamer angry they're getting killed. Instead, they were morally condemning her actions, calling her a psychopath or a monster, screaming in disbelief that she could possibly have fun struggling to the fake-videogame-death with them, abandoning their pacific principles by classifying her as 'inhuman vermin' so that they could try to videogame-murder her, etc.

Although usually not said out loud, this kind of thing absolutely goes on in tabletop RPGs. There have been a number of times that I've questioned the morality/mental health of fellow players (or players under me as a DM) based on actions they take under the guise of "it's just a game." It's one reason why I refuse to play truly evil characters even if the game system allows for them.
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Kendra Kirai



Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 187
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:48 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
NeverConvex wrote:
Rather, they were used to frame Pitohui as sadistic and amoral, complete with overwrought, vengeful speeches from her victims and constant stereotypical villain cackling from Pitohui. Her victims weren't yelling, "You got lucky! Your class/weapon/character is overpowered! You're just higher level than me! This is unfair! Get a life! You suck!" or variations on these at her, as you might expect of a gamer angry they're getting killed. Instead, they were morally condemning her actions, calling her a psychopath or a monster, screaming in disbelief that she could possibly have fun struggling to the fake-videogame-death with them, abandoning their pacific principles by classifying her as 'inhuman vermin' so that they could try to videogame-murder her, etc.

Although usually not said out loud, this kind of thing absolutely goes on in tabletop RPGs. There have been a number of times that I've questioned the morality/mental health of fellow players (or players under me as a DM) based on actions they take under the guise of "it's just a game." It's one reason why I refuse to play truly evil characters even if the game system allows for them.


On top of all that, in stressful situations, which are USUALLY the most dramatic, you're probably going to forget that you're playing a game.

Let's look at something that's pretty close to what GGO is; paintball. It's obvious that it's just a game. Your markers can only cause actual injury if you're cheating or a rather severe accident happens. Yet people get SUPER into it. Like totally forgetting it's a game, into it.

Hell, even just regular video game players. Have you ever watched somebody play who was FULLY into the game? Every hit or death is almost tangible.

And that's just on a screen. With no haptic feedback or full dive technology or even a VR headset.

Hell x2, just look at almost any facecam playthrough of a horror game, or watch a movie.

People immerse themselves in a thing and they forget it's not real. And losing is upsetting, especially when the other player is being a DICK about it, like Pitou totally was. She may not have been as bad a griefer as you (or whoever it was) posited, mainly because GGO doesn't work like that, but she was absolutely griefing.

One expects to get killed in a shooter game. One does not expect to be tortured and killed SLOWLY, while your full dive system is giving you some measure (unknown how much, but let's just call it 1%) of discomfort to let you know precisely where you're injured and how.

And that's just the physical, then there's the PSYCHOLOGICAL issues of seeing your friends, as well as you, yourself, getting tortured and killed.

And GGO is a game that rewards making friends and forming teams, getting to know them closely so you can work better together, etc. You care about your teammates.

Having somebody come along and be a teamkilling assdick is going to make anybody upset.
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Key
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:06 am Reply with quote
Kendra Kirai wrote:
People immerse themselves in a thing and they forget it's not real. And losing is upsetting, especially when the other player is being a DICK about it, like Pitou totally was.

Yeah, I can absolutely relate on this point. I can get pretty intense playing Clash Royale, and while I don't like losing in general, I only find it really galling when the opponent is clearly just toying with you; they could easily finish you off with one single direct-target spell but instead waste a couple of minutes launching other attacks and stringing you along on the faint hope that you might be able to catch them by surprise. Sadly, some people get their jollies that way, and Pito is that kind.

(My hate for the above scenario is why I always take someone out as quick as possible if I can.)
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lindentree



Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:13 am Reply with quote
On a different topic, I did my best to transcribe and translate the insert song from Elza's concert in the final episode. My Japanese is very limited, unfortunately, so anybody better qualified is free to correct me.

星さえもないよるに浮かぶ (Floating toward the starless night…)
花火のように眩しく美しくあれたら (there’s dazzing beauty, like fireworks.)

それが名もなき徒花 (That nameless sterile flower)
みわ多いままに 彼でぐだけ (--I had no idea what this part was--)

何も変わらない (Nothing changes)
過去に呼吸も告げないのに (In the past, even my breath stopped)
しんぞはまだ動いてるみたいだ ( but it seems like my heart is still moving)

奢れて沈んだ今日救い上げ買うで(The days when I was depressed and you treated me)

ここに生きるreason (My reason for living here…)     
それはあなたでした。(that was you.)
何度も迷ってさまよって あ(?)どう出会って (No matter how many times I hesitate or lose my way)
You’re the only one "??I believe??" (--I know this sentence is English but I have no idea what the final word/words are--)
そこにあなたがいた。(You were right there)
ただそれだけで命は輝くから。(Only that life shines)
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Hiroki not Takuya



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Posts: 1162
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:04 am Reply with quote
Likewise, since I thought she started the song with "Goushi-san" and thought it was a love song for him, but found a couple of sources had it as "Hoshi sae" I tried my best with Google Translate, some elementary Japanese knowledge and liberties to fit English grammar to translate Rea(s)oN by RaeNa

Stars don't float at night like fireworks dazzlingly, beautifully do
I have no name to wish on
(flower arrangement, actually it's blue, withered to death) (WTF...)

Only, nothing changes the past
Even though I can't breathe, my heart is still beating
Today, I drowned and sank and you scooped me in your arms

I live in this Reason: it was you
I wandered and got lost and finally found (you)
You're the only one I believe in
There you were, Just that alone makes my life shine

End Roll-I stood up without waiting
Last scene-I bet he knows
I hoped for a while for awkward dialog, a clumsily added scenerio
Don't end the scene

Surely magical Aurora descended to the ground
causing the desert of my heart to bloom with flowers (lit:Desert flowers in full bloom)
I don't have any words to represent you
Still, until they arrive I want to tell you

(scratching down words, getting distracted, that I wanted to disappear so that they don't come true)
All of that taught me the meaning of the phrase "spilled drops can't be returned to the bottle"

I live in this Reason: it was you
I wandered and got lost and finally found (you)
You're the only one I believe in
There you were, Just that alone makes my life shine
There you were, Just that alone makes my life shine
Chorus Background
(I’ve been looking for a reason
I just figured out the reason)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfO-GtN08wU
https://janimelyrics.wordpress.com/2018/07/03/kanzaki-elsa-starring-reona-reason-lyrics/
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