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EP. REVIEW: Sword Art Online Alternative: Gun Gale Online


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klv



Joined: 08 Feb 2017
Posts: 84
Location: Ba Sing Se
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:17 am Reply with quote
I love how the author describes the sponsor for the team-style battle royale and I'm pretty sure he was describing himself. I had myself a giggle. I really like this spin-off, and much more than any of the original seasons (though it has been awhile). I find myself looking forward to it each week more than I expected to, even with the knowledge of the excellent staff involved.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:42 am Reply with quote
Kokuryu Daimao wrote:
I mean this is a game where you can 'acquire' the rappelling skill which, for some reason, has a fixed descending speed.
Yet if you know how to do it IRL, you can just do it as fast as you can.
While yet again allowing players with high agility to move faster than normal human speed.
So therefore, could player with high agility apply that to their acquired rappelling skill to actually descend faster than normal human speed, thus contradicting the previously stated fixed descending speed?

This isn't unique to GGO. For instance, in one tabletop RPG I play, monk characters get a bonus to speed, but only to their walking movement. If they have a specific climb, swim, or fly speed, those are unaffected.

#844391 wrote:
So, was skeptical walking into this but I ended up enjoying this way more than the original SAO series, which I actually dropped after the Gun Gale arc in that series. The main difference is that this series actually feels more like they are playing a game, as opposed to Kirito who just plot armors his way through every encounter. "I'm playing a game focused on guns? I'll just use a sword and dodge/block all the bullets while looking cool and win because I'm the main character".

This is kind of a side point, but if your reason for dropping the main series is entirely what you state above then I strongly recommend you go back and check out the Mother's Rosario arc, which constitutes the last seven episodes of SAO II. Kirito is only a minor supporting character in that Asuna-focused arc, so a lot of what people complain about concerning Kirito isn't a factor. And it doesn't hurt that it's the best SAO story to date. Wink
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Kendra Kirai



Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 187
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:32 am Reply with quote
RE the avatars; having them be randomized is DUMB, I agree completely, BUT in a competitive game like GGO there would probably be definite balancing with size.

LLENN probably can't carry nearly as much stuff on her - it looks like you need a moment to call up items that aren't actively equipped, which means you can't do it in the middle of a fight - she likely has recoil issues with larger guns, if she can equip them at all, and she likely has less health. (The P90 fires a relatively small bullet, and it's bulpup design makes it easier to handle with less recoil)

Her speed is a surprise to everyone, including herself, so I think it's actually her unique skill rather than just her size and agility score. If you'll recall Main SAO, they say that players will sometimes acquire a special skill that isn't precisely present in the game itself, but attached to the character.
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#844391



Joined: 09 Sep 2015
Posts: 509
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:35 pm Reply with quote
Kendra Kirai wrote:
RE the avatars; having them be randomized is DUMB, I agree completely, BUT in a competitive game like GGO there would probably be definite balancing with size.

LLENN probably can't carry nearly as much stuff on her - it looks like you need a moment to call up items that aren't actively equipped, which means you can't do it in the middle of a fight - she likely has recoil issues with larger guns, if she can equip them at all, and she likely has less health. (The P90 fires a relatively small bullet, and it's bulpup design makes it easier to handle with less recoil)

Her speed is a surprise to everyone, including herself, so I think it's actually her unique skill rather than just her size and agility score. If you'll recall Main SAO, they say that players will sometimes acquire a special skill that isn't precisely present in the game itself, but attached to the character.


That in and of itself (unique skills) is not something you would see in a competitive shooter. Balance is an obsession in those kinds of games, and players getting random unique advantages would ruin the competitive scene. Granted, this game isn't really focused on balanced pvp action. It's an open world game where players can do what they want but if they're going to have a tournament there would be tons of complaints IRL if some players had unique useful skills that others did not have access too. But then as I mentioned before, this is anime, so it doesn't really bother me.

As for her size affecting her ability to carry stuff, I could see that being the case, as they don't seem to have a separate inventory, they actually have to carry all their stuff (the large backpack for example) so even if the weight didn't slow her down, simply carrying around large objects would be unwieldy at the very least. But in this game I would still prefer a small fast character as it only takes one or a few shots to kill anyone regardless of size so speed and the ability to take advantage of cover better outweighs the cons I would think.
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Meongantuk



Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Posts: 155
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:13 pm Reply with quote
Kendra Kirai wrote:
RE the avatars; having them be randomized is DUMB, I agree completely, BUT in a competitive game like GGO there would probably be definite balancing with size.

LLENN probably can't carry nearly as much stuff on her - it looks like you need a moment to call up items that aren't actively equipped, which means you can't do it in the middle of a fight - she likely has recoil issues with larger guns, if she can equip them at all, and she likely has less health. (The P90 fires a relatively small bullet, and it's bulpup design makes it easier to handle with less recoil)

Her speed is a surprise to everyone, including herself, so I think it's actually her unique skill rather than just her size and agility score. If you'll recall Main SAO, they say that players will sometimes acquire a special skill that isn't precisely present in the game itself, but attached to the character.


No, her speed is byproduct of dumping most of her points to AGI not a special skill, a big avatar like M can also do that if he pumped his AGI. The special skills in GGO are related to the players' actual real life skill like rappeling. Though, It is true that LLENN has low health and weight limit (thus can't use heavier guns), but that's because she has low STR and VIT, The avatar has nothing to offer beside size and look, all character capabilities are related to their stats and real life skill. The anime skipped the scene where she decided her build

LLENN's build choice (should be in ep 2, but skiped):
spoiler['Since I obtained a short-build avatar after great pains, by increasing my agility, I would be able to run faster. I want to raise my dexterity as well to be able to produce something. Luck would probably be nice and would be helpful. If I don’t have sufficient strength, there will be guns that I won’t be able to fire, so the stat sounds reasonable. I’m not planning on getting hit and I don’t mind being frail, so I have no need for vitality. Sensibility? No clue.'

As LLENN considered that, she proceeded to raise her agility and dexterity as her main stats, as well as strength and luck as her sub stats. Her trauma of always being the last one in footraces due to the hugeness of her body influenced her decision considerably.]


Also, the OP has this character. Similar avatar size but different stat build (high STR).
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Kendra Kirai



Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 187
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:44 pm Reply with quote
Oh! Well okay then. Still, it's about as balanced as you can expect from a game where real life experience can override game limitations, and considering that it's at least somewhat made to resemble a realistic setting.
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Alternative Ice



Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 88
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:19 pm Reply with quote
I always get a chuckle out of that spoiler['Sensibility? No clue.'] line, because since Kawahara was the supervisor for this show's LN's, I assume that not even he knows what that stat does.

But yeah, if your biggest problem with sao is it's game mechanics, you might want to jump ship now, because this is still the same universe and even though it's a different writer Sigsawa has said in one of his own afterwords for the series that he doesn't really play video games all that much and that's why the idea of gun fights in a vrmmo never even occurred to him until he read sao's Phantom Bullet arc.
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青白



Joined: 30 May 2012
Posts: 183
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:41 am Reply with quote
Thanks for spoiling Pitohui’s identity you spoiler[degenerate prick you.]

Edit: Seriously though, I didn’t realize who she was until I spoiled myself after episode 2.
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GrayArchon



Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 390
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:09 am Reply with quote
Chaos Wings wrote:
Also why did they feel the need to shove Sword Art Online at the start of the title? Are they that desperate to make sure everyone knows it's still part of the same universe? I mean correct me if I'm wrong but at this point it has nothing to do with what happened in Aincrad anymore right? Surely Gun Gale Online would've sufficed.


Don't be silly, they're not desperate. They did the obvious thing for a franchise to do, and started the title of the spin off novel with "Sword Art Online Alternative" to ensure they catch the eye of existing fans.

e.g.:
Sword Art Online
Sword Art Online: Progressive
Sword Art Online: Girl's Ops
Sword Art Online: Hollow Fragment
Sword Art Online: Fatal Bullet
Sword Art Online Alternative: Gun Gale Online
Sword Art Online Alternative: Clover's Regret

It's no different from the franchise spawned by Fate/Stay Night starting all it's spin offs with "Fate/" or from the franchise spawned by A Certain Magical Index starting it's spin offs with "A Certain". For that mater it's no different from Dragon Lance books prominently featuring "Dragon Lance" even more so than the title of the book, or from Star Wars novels prominently featuring "Star Wars" on their covers with the title of the book below it in smaller print. It helps keep the entire franchise together in one place on stores shelves and online listings, ensures fans have just one keyword they need to search for to keep up with news, helps people new to the franchise identify what is part of the franchise, etc. The only thing SAO did different from every other release in it's franchise is that they added "Alternative" to the two spin offs written by other people, which don't feature Kirito or his friends. Which is again not a particularly unusual thing for a franchise to do once it grows big enough to have sub-divisions.

meiam wrote:
Just like SAO this feel like something that was written by someone who know of video game but who never played them. Any FPS competitive game would have standardise avatar shape, otherwise everybody would be playing as the most advantageous size (probably some weird combination of small frame/head mixed with large arm/hand for better handling of the gun). Same for costume color, everybody would have the same camo.


Here's the fallacy about the avatar size thing. GGO is not an FPS competition game. It's an MMORPG with a futuristic post-apocalyptic setting, which makes the main weapons be guns instead of swords. It's balance concerns are closer to World of Warcraft's than to a competitive FPS game. BoB and Squad Jam are tournament's held within the game, not the main game themselves. Characters aren't going to be equal, in build or capabilities, as the whole point is for people to pit themselves, and the character they've built against other people who have been building their character, and honing their skills.

So size is just one of many factors contributing to how good a character is, and there is no one single advantageous size or shape, nor one single camo that's best.
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Key
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:54 am Reply with quote
青白 wrote:
Thanks for spoiling Pitohui’s identity you spoiler[degenerate prick you.]

Edit: Seriously though, I didn’t realize who she was until I spoiled myself after episode 2.

To be clear, that declaration is entirely my own presumption based on certain indicators that seem to fit established narrative patterns. I haven't actually read the source material or seen any spoilers on it. I honestly will be more than a little surprised if that isn't who it turns out to be, though.
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#844391



Joined: 09 Sep 2015
Posts: 509
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:46 am Reply with quote
Hah, that ep 4 ending was pretty funny, wondering if he's just so into the game he doesn't want to die or if it's because he'll get beat up IRL by his boss if he loses or something.
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Cam0



Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 3857
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:42 am Reply with quote
I kinda laughed more at LLENN emptying her magazine into that one dude. In competitive Call of Duty (yeah yeah I'm sure someone here is sneering like: "haha competitive cod lolol that's an oxymoron") shooting bodies is considered very disrespectful though that's the only game where I know that shooting bodies is a "thing". It's equivalent to teabagging or talking smack (those happen in competitive CoD as well). It just kinda looked like LLENN got really excited and she enjoyed desecrating her opponent's corpse.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 2370
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:06 am Reply with quote
GrayArchon wrote:
meiam wrote:
Just like SAO this feel like something that was written by someone who know of video game but who never played them. Any FPS competitive game would have standardise avatar shape, otherwise everybody would be playing as the most advantageous size (probably some weird combination of small frame/head mixed with large arm/hand for better handling of the gun). Same for costume color, everybody would have the same camo.


Here's the fallacy about the avatar size thing. GGO is not an FPS competition game. It's an MMORPG with a futuristic post-apocalyptic setting, which makes the main weapons be guns instead of swords. It's balance concerns are closer to World of Warcraft's than to a competitive FPS game. BoB and Squad Jam are tournament's held within the game, not the main game themselves. Characters aren't going to be equal, in build or capabilities, as the whole point is for people to pit themselves, and the character they've built against other people who have been building their character, and honing their skills.

So size is just one of many factors contributing to how good a character is, and there is no one single advantageous size or shape, nor one single camo that's best.


The problem is size is strictly positive, ie small frame offer no disadvantages and only advantages (if you disagree feel free to tell Meongantuk his explanation is wrong, which seem to be derived straight from the book). So if a game would go live this way everyone would have loli body, and you would have a lot of very pissed players who would find out much later that there avatar is worthless and that they can't compete in PvP purely for a random number that was generated for them before they even knew how the game worked.

Also if you think WoW doesn't care about PvP balance just because it's not a mainly PvP game you really haven't paid much attention to it. They once wiped out some racial bonus because everyone was making fresh character to take advantages of racial bonus in PvP (everyone alliance side was human in PvP iirc).


Last edited by meiam on Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:31 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Nate148



Joined: 24 May 2012
Posts: 119
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:43 am Reply with quote
not really as she is stuck with a smg
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Catseyetiger



Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 708
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 10:19 pm Reply with quote
I loved the ending twist of episode 4! Now talk about a great cliff hanger. I have some burning questions now! Found this to be interesting in its own right story wise!
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