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EP. REVIEW: PERSONA 5 the Animation


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Chaos Wings



Joined: 05 May 2015
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Location: Your guess is as good as mine?!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:04 pm Reply with quote
I'm watching the anime and playing the game (for the 1st time) concurrently for an epic experience. Really enjoyed the first couple of episodes and like how the anime is adding it's own little touches. Also the music is awesome as expected, love the opening and ending themes.
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Chrno2



Joined: 28 May 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:15 pm Reply with quote
Gotta put this on my watch list.
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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:19 am Reply with quote
So far it's better than the Persona 4 adaptations.

But there's still much to be desired.

The fight scenes definitely need some kind of inspiration, which I'd say they ought to get writers to come up with action scenarios and conflicts that were NOT in the game.

Jojo's Bizarre Adventure for one comes to mind where the same concept is handled perfectly. Aside from just kicking ass, have the Personas themselves relevant to other problem solving.

It might've been better if the first few episodes 'took their time' and just built intrigue and setting up relationships less conveniently (feels fine in the game, but rushed in the anime), and have them come used to their powers and the idea of palaces and combat over several episodes.

There's a way to do this right, but it would require deviating from just precisely following the script laid out by the source material. Obviously there are differences already, but one can't help feel they're counting on viewers being familiar with the basics of the game. Anyone not familiar at all will just be looking at random things occurring on screen.

The Persona 3 films handled the introduction stuff better.
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Rosiero



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:52 am Reply with quote
I find the pacing in this adaptation to be dreadful. It's not hard to follow (but then again I played the game), but scenes aren't allowed to breathe in the slightest and it sucks out all of the atmosphere and emotional tension.

It's especially bad in episode 3, since that's where the emotional stakes are the highest yet. spoiler[For example, the scene where Amamiya overhears Ann on the phone with Kamoshida, and she collapses into a squat after he hangs up. In the game, there's enough of a pause that it sells how the strength must be leaving her legs, but in the show it happens so quickly that it's as though she just has a habit of squatting after phone conversations.

Or when Amamiya and Ryuji meet with Mishima to confront Kamoshida after Shiho's suicide attempt. It all happens so quickly that when Kamoshida says the hospital called and said Shiho's in a coma, it's like "How did they even get to the hospital yet?"
]


It's an interesting contrast with the main anime I'm currently following, Record of Grancrest War. That show has infamously rushed pacing because it's cramming ten novels into 24 episodes, but at least it knows to slow down for the emotional or flashy parts, so I actually find it infinitely more engaging to watch than P5A. And that's without even having the source material to compare to!

I'm also not a fan of how Ren Amamiya is portrayed. His comedically stoic personality here makes for a few funny jokes, but it's otherwise very boring and a weird fit for a phantom thief. The game already had dialogue options to play him as smooth and witty, why not use those?
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myskaros



Joined: 13 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:18 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Similarly, the anime works in a moment with Ran constructing tools at his desk that don't get used either, seemingly just there to acknowledge that this is something you do in the game.

I thought the tools were used later when he was trying to lockpick the door and failed.

Also, his name is technically "Ren," though I think I named him something like "Shoester" in my game Razz
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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:30 pm Reply with quote
If they weren't in such a rush and money was no object, I for one would've preferred an adaptation where the first 13 episodes only covered the Kamoshida arc.

A lot of exposition and set-up could've been done on an episode by episode basis with more time for sensible character introductions and it would've been fun seeing more of the castle and seeing Ren and co. coming to grips with their Persona powers and problem solving things on an episode-by-episode basis.

Then what we find in Episode 5 and the end of the Kamoshida arc is actually the climax of episode 13.

A way more interesting show can be made from the source material, but so far it looks like they're only counting on fans of the game dropping by to see the stuff they remember animated winking at them on screen; rather than a show that stands on its own. But to anyone not interested or familiar with the game, it's just a bunch of lazy nonsensical writing. There is no intrigue created for the shadow world itself, everything seems to be a bunch of coincidences and deus ex machina set-ups.

Given the stinger at the end of ep 5 I doubt the show is going to improve in any way. There's no real effort going into it and it's basically just acting as a summary of the game's story and gamey elements as fast as possible.
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Shinigami-Seishou



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:33 pm Reply with quote
I'm liking how faithful it is to the game, it's been about a year since I've played it and it brings back all the fun times. Of course...this series really needs more episodes in its belt, but I can't complain. They played Layer Cake at the gun store, I'm content!
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:31 pm Reply with quote
jdnation wrote:
If they weren't in such a rush and money was no object, I for one would've preferred an adaptation where the first 13 episodes only covered the Kamoshida arc.


Heck no Kamoshida's dungeon was already the most tedious dungeon as it was in the game.
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zrnzle500
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:45 pm Reply with quote
jdnation wrote:
If they weren't in such a rush and money was no object, I for one would've preferred an adaptation where the first 13 episodes only covered the Kamoshida arc.

A lot of exposition and set-up could've been done on an episode by episode basis with more time for sensible character introductions and it would've been fun seeing more of the castle and seeing Ren and co. coming to grips with their Persona powers and problem solving things on an episode-by-episode basis.

Then what we find in Episode 5 and the end of the Kamoshida arc is actually the climax of episode 13.

A way more interesting show can be made from the source material, but so far it looks like they're only counting on fans of the game dropping by to see the stuff they remember animated winking at them on screen; rather than a show that stands on its own. But to anyone not interested or familiar with the game, it's just a bunch of lazy nonsensical writing. There is no intrigue created for the shadow world itself, everything seems to be a bunch of coincidences and deus ex machina set-ups.

Given the stinger at the end of ep 5 I doubt the show is going to improve in any way. There's no real effort going into it and it's basically just acting as a summary of the game's story and gamey elements as fast as possible.


As someone who has not played the game - though I have seen most of the anime adaptions of the previous entries in the franchise - I haven't found it difficult to understand what is going on, and frankly the idea that people who haven't played the game would have no idea what is going on in front of them seems a little insulting to the intelligence of those people, not that I think it was intended as such.

As to the pacing, while they could have added a few episodes, I think making it three times slower would have made it drag more than anything. In game form it almost certainly works, but in a format where it airs weekly, having only one third the plot progression each episode would have been way too slow. While some fans of the game may want it, I don't think a 100 or even 50 hour long anime adaptation is very feasible, even putting aside budget and time constraints, for that reason.
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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 11:45 am Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
Heck no Kamoshida's dungeon was already the most tedious dungeon as it was in the game.


One of these things is not like the other... But perhaps I exaggerate too much by suggesting it needs an entire season. But it certainly does need significantly more time. And especially where, just as in the game, the characters themselves need to come to grips with the world they are in and experiencing and so does the audience. We need to see them putting in effort and feel the danger they're in, which emphasizes the stakes and their dilemma in the real world. Instead we just watched them breeze past everything and the final climax of Kamoshida's Castle feels very flat as another poster brought up. It feels unearned. We're just supposed to go off the idea that a bad guy was brought down, but there is really no feeling of relief or catharsis or appreciation for the heroic effort on the part of our protagonists. Something one naturally gets from playing the game. But in a series, this needs to be shown and emphasized.


zrnzle500 wrote:
As someone who has not played the game - though I have seen most of the anime adaptions of the previous entries in the franchise - I haven't found it difficult to understand what is going on, and frankly the idea that people who haven't played the game would have no idea what is going on in front of them seems a little insulting to the intelligence of those people, not that I think it was intended as such.


But you have seen the other anime adaptations and I'm guessing you're familiar with RPGs as well. But for anyone not into these things or who simply expects good writing, and because it's obvious that this is a product made simply for fans of the game rather than to draw in a new audience, this is really an insult to our intelligence. It's not that you can't piece together the basics of what's going on. It's that everything is spelt out for you in the most mundane manner. But lacking what could've been intrigue and mystery of Kamishida's Castle and the Shadow World that would've been more interesting alongside lazy set-ups and introductions for other suporting characters. For example: Who just walks into someone at a coffee shop and just hands over random medication to a stranger???

Basically it's bad writing no matter how you slice it and it sticks out like a sore thumb. That's not to say we can't still enjoy the series for what it is. I'll be watching it through simply to reminisce about my time with the game and to appreciate some key moments, but this could've been so much better.



zrnzle500 wrote:
As to the pacing, while they could have added a few episodes, I think making it three times slower would have made it drag more than anything. In game form it almost certainly works, but in a format where it airs weekly, having only one third the plot progression each episode would have been way too slow. While some fans of the game may want it, I don't think a 100 or even 50 hour long anime adaptation is very feasible, even putting aside budget and time constraints, for that reason.


Indeed, my suggestion for 13 episodes is probably stretched too long. But I certainly feel it should've been a mid-point with enough time to establish many things that makes the climax of the Kamoshida arc feel tense and earned, especially for a rag-tag bunch of kids entering the shadow world and using Personas for the first time.

Subsequent Palaces and villains after that can be done faster, so it doesn't need 100 episodes. Once we are familiar with the basics from the Kamoshida Arc and we now see our cast has experience, we don't need to devote the same time to other Palaces, and that time can be spent on the new cast members and other stuff. The pace would subsequently pick up in future episodes quite naturally.

It feels like they intend to wrap the story up in 26 episodes though. But even then, better writing and cutting out a chunk of content could still make for a more interesting, tighter adaptation, obviously requiring you to lose a lot, but if they were ballsy enough to go for that it'd be a better show overall. Just dispose of the wider cast of social links (few-second cameo appearences are okay) and stick to the main group only, and lose all the extraneous social-link stuff for them too outside of what is absolutely necessary. Make Ren and his story the primary focus and just cover the other characters to the extent that they are a necessary means of moving his story forward. This of course means that they'll never be as close as in the game or a longer series could handle, but it'd be a more sensible tale.

We do not need to see the arcs of every character. We don't need to hear every quip. We don't need to cover every 'event' moment in their lives. We do not need to see him romance every girl. Leave the romantic arcs out altogether or just pick one girl and emphasize her. And that'd probably have to be one of the earliest introduced ones so that just leaves Ann or Makoto. But this being a series aimed at the game-playing otaku only, they'll likely just leave that open-ended so as not to upset anyone, and continue without any closer establishment of relationships just as in Persona 4. But if you're not going to develop any of these to any meaingful point, it's better left out altogether.

I suppose I've been writing this version of P5 anime only in my head. But it's a really good game and I would've loved if the creators cared to make it something more than just a basic adaptation of the game. I think looking to series like Fate/Stay/Extra or Jojo's Bizarre Adventure is a good guide to how to make something like this work. But this is what it is and I've just got to accept that going forward.
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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 3:26 pm Reply with quote
Pacing of episodes 5 and 6 are better. Also I like how they're naturally changing things up a bit to introduce us to Makoto earlier and taking some creativity to change things around a bit. Would've liked to see more of the cat explaining and introducing them to the Shadow World as done in episode 5. Battles however are still simply looking like walks in the park. Hopefully things with the palaces get a bit more involved and interesting.
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MsVitchDa2nd



Joined: 05 Oct 2017
Posts: 55
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:45 pm Reply with quote
jdnation wrote:
If they weren't in such a rush and money was no object, I for one would've preferred an adaptation where the first 13 episodes only covered the Kamoshida arc.

A lot of exposition and set-up could've been done on an episode by episode basis with more time for sensible character introductions and it would've been fun seeing more of the castle and seeing Ren and co. coming to grips with their Persona powers and problem solving things on an episode-by-episode basis.

Then what we find in Episode 5 and the end of the Kamoshida arc is actually the climax of episode 13.

A way more interesting show can be made from the source material, but so far it looks like they're only counting on fans of the game dropping by to see the stuff they remember animated winking at them on screen; rather than a show that stands on its own. But to anyone not interested or familiar with the game, it's just a bunch of lazy nonsensical writing. There is no intrigue created for the shadow world itself, everything seems to be a bunch of coincidences and deus ex machina set-ups.

Given the stinger at the end of ep 5 I doubt the show is going to improve in any way. There's no real effort going into it and it's basically just acting as a summary of the game's story and gamey elements as fast as possible.

Tbh that's going overboard for a game adaptation. I don't wanna see side them do unnecessary stuff that doesn't follow the story like going to burger joints and conduct mini side quest and other games.
If it followed your desired approach then I'd have dropped the series a long time ago.
I'm not a gamer nor for P3 and P4 so just to let you know anime onlys would definitely get bored due to dragged out content.
I'd even consider those side stuff and exploration filler
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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 11:47 pm Reply with quote
MsVitchDa2nd wrote:
Tbh that's going overboard for a game adaptation. I don't wanna see side them do unnecessary stuff that doesn't follow the story like going to burger joints and conduct mini side quest and other games.
If it followed your desired approach then I'd have dropped the series a long time ago.
I'm not a gamer nor for P3 and P4 so just to let you know anime onlys would definitely get bored due to dragged out content.
I'd even consider those side stuff and exploration filler


If what I wanted was what you specifically said, then yes, that'd be terrible.

But side-stories and some good filler are great ways of fleshing out the world of persona, the story themes, and character development, that under good writing staff would only be an asset and make the show more interesting.

Some of the best anime out there - such as Cowboy Bebop, or Lupin, for example - have the majority of its episodes being solely side stories. Jojo's Bizarre Adventure is another where outside of the central journey, characters are sidetracked to deal with other things that help them develop and set up things to come in very natural ways.

If the content feels dragged out, it's due to poor choices and writing. Of course it also helps if they made the main character an actual... character...

Persona has plenty of excuses to come up with side-stories. And they could even come up with entirely original scenarios to make stuff more interesting, precisely like the anime short 'The Day Breakers' they released before the game's release which was waaayyyyy better than anything so far.

EVERYTHING in the Day Breakers short is what an ideal adaptation of Persona 5 should've been like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4wqhyrxV3Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl1h-iWeyq8

(And for reference the actual side quest from the game - https://youtu.be/JxJsisDfm28?t=6m14s)

They had the formula down for that one little marketing short which in infinitely more interesting than anything in the present show so far, and is entirely a side story. I strongly recommend everyone check out the entire Day Breakers short on Crunchyroll to get a taste of how much better this show could've been.

It would not be overboard for a game adaptation. It would be entirely sensible if they want this anime to be something good and not just a phoned in marketing product for the game or just a cheap cash grab.

They should've approached this as an original anime project assuming viewers have never seen any of this before, and with the freedom to diverge from sticking so closely to every beat of the game's story with the freedom to add or subtract or change the order of events as they see fit. The only main outline they would feel necessary to adhere to is the order of Palaces and general character motivations and backgrounds.
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killjoy_the



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 1681
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:52 am Reply with quote
C'mon Chris you missed the most important part of the episode - Ryuji's shirts

Where can I buy these and not spend my entire week's salary


Last edited by killjoy_the on Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dicku-kun



Joined: 14 Jun 2018
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:51 pm Reply with quote
This series is so bad I reach out to the truth on why everyone's still watching but It only burns my dread. Perhaps everyone's waiting for the last surprise?
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