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OtherSideofSky wrote:

OK, I just watched a recording of the live stream, and I'm not seeing most of the things that people are talking about.

They do talk about liberating territory, but it's accompanied by what is clearly a map of Tokyo covered in colored blocks presumably representing different factions. That seems to rule out claims that players will be occupying territory outside Japan right off the bat.

I was watching on the subway, so train noise might have made me miss something, but I didn't hear anyone on the stream name any of the factions involved or give any other details about what the event story will be about. That being the case, it's hard not to consider most of the claims being thrown around in this thread and on Twitter pretty groundless until the event actually comes out.

Yeah, the image of the map that was posted earlier this page makes it look like the territory you're fighting over is a map of Tokyo, or at least a heavily urban area, what with all the pattern of lights and building and such. The layout seems reminiscent of what I remember an overview of Tokyo looks like as well. The fact that the event name references "The Imperial Capital" makes it even clearer that it's gonna be fought over Tokyo.

Anyway, looks like a massive overreaction to me. You're to conquering other national territories like Korea and China, just fighting over Tokyo. And the aim of events in FGO is that you're usually fighting to make things in history go right, so I assume they're gonna be fighting against the Imperial Japanese and whatever Germans show up.

Event isn't even out yet, and some people are wildly overreacting already...

Rednimue wrote:

Nordhmmer wrote:

Rednimue wrote:

But then you hear no one complaining about those historical strategic games, like Iron Heart, where you can literally change the outcome of WWII and Win the war with the axis ... Confused

I understand the heated debate around the cancellation of [NEW LIFE +], there are good reason behind it ... But this is the text book definition of overreaction ...

Did you mean Hearts of Iron IV, which is banned from Steam in China.

Exactly that game, I've never heard anyone complaining about It to the level of this FGO controversy ... If someone is so offended by the contents of something they should just ban the product from their country (like china did) or censor It (like germany did with all the nazi Iconography etc ...) and let anyone else enjoy the full version of the product and not push to remove things you don't like (or even outright cancel it) to the level of compromising the vision of the developers/artists behind It.

This doesn't seem the case for FGO (yet), we'll see what happens ...

If I remember correctly, the reason HoI 4 (and 3 before it, and possibly 2) was banned in China is because it shows China as divided into warlord territories at the beginning of the game and not nominally united under Nationalist China with the Communists fighting the guerrilla good fight like what the official story of the Chinese Communist Party would have people believe. The fact that the Communists could lose the civil war to the Nationalists or even a warlord army in the game might also be a sticking point.

Anything to suggest that the Communists or the PLA could lose or paint them in a poor light seems to get the axe, including stuff like in Command and Conquer Generals, where things like Beijing getting hit by a terrorist nuclear bomb, the PLA destroying the Hong Kong Convention Center because terrorists are holed up there, or destroying a dam (said to possibly be the Three Gorges Dam, but likely not) to flood out a terrorist occupied village, got it banned, even if China is successful in routing the terrorists according to the official storyline in the Zero Hour expansion and even kick them out of Europe and form a Europe-China military cooperation alliance after NATO becomes defunct as the US withdraws from the continent due to aforementioned terrorist attacks sinking their carriers and using chemical weapons on their populace.

GhostStalkerSA wrote:

And the aim of events in FGO is that you're usually fighting to make things in history go right, so I assume they're gonna be fighting against the Imperial Japanese and whatever Germans show up.

To be honest, given the previous Guda Guda events and the identity of the new Servants, I wouldn't be surprised if no real world factions show up and we just fight Servant-led factions, especially since this looks like it's mostly about recreating a version of the original Koha-Ace plot that Nobunaga, etc. come from. (Especially because part 2 is all about parallel worlds, although I suppose this could be another flashback event like Kogetsukan was.)

People keep posting about the Germans and the imperial Japanese, etc., but they don't show up in the TV commercial, the in-game announcement or the official stream and they don't have any representative Servants to be bosses (everyone shown in the trailer was historically dead by 1900 at the very latest), so I have a hard time imagining them as more than bit players if they even show up. If anything, I'd bet on the Japanese army being like the crusaders in Camelot, where someone took them all out before you even get there.

OtherSideofSky wrote:

GhostStalkerSA wrote:

And the aim of events in FGO is that you're usually fighting to make things in history go right, so I assume they're gonna be fighting against the Imperial Japanese and whatever Germans show up.

To be honest, given the previous Guda Guda events and the identity of the new Servants, I wouldn't be surprised if no real world factions show up and we just fight Servant-led factions, especially since this looks like it's mostly about recreating a version of the original Koha-Ace plot that Nobunaga, etc. come from. (Especially because part 2 is all about parallel worlds, although I suppose this could be another flashback event like Kogetsukan was.)

People keep posting about the Germans and the imperial Japanese, etc., but they don't show up in the TV commercial, the in-game announcement or the official stream and they don't have any representative Servants to be bosses (everyone shown in the trailer was historically dead by 1900 at the very latest), so I have a hard time imagining them as more than bit players if they even show up. If anything, I'd bet on the Japanese army being like the crusaders in Camelot, where someone took them all out before you even get there.

Fair enough, I've only played the first Guda Guda event since it's the only one so far out in English, and yeah, those tend to be comedy events, as the first one was fighting against giant super deformed chibi Nobus. Nobunaga is a good Servant though, and I was glad I pulled Okita in that gatcha. OKITA SAN DAISHOURI!

GhostStalkerSA wrote:

Fair enough, I've only played the first Guda Guda event since it's the only one so far out in English, and yeah, those tend to be comedy events, as the first one was fighting against giant super deformed chibi Nobus. Nobunaga is a good Servant though, and I was glad I pulled Okita in that gatcha. OKITA SAN DAISHOURI!

For context, then (and without spoiling Guda Guda Meiji Ishin), the second event had Okita vs Nobunaga again despite being set in a version of a different time period. Also, all the new Servants for this third event are drawn from the gag manga that Okita and Nobunaga debuted as Servants in.

Congratulations on pulling Okita. Her star generation is ridiculous.

AksaraKishou wrote:

Taking into account that the game's more or less about time traveling and restoring timelines + te fact that the story, as of now, is well over the word count of the Lord of the Rings Trilogy (start multiplying those words and you'll probably reach the current word count on JP. PS: There's 6 or 7 new full blown stories coming, each set in a different age just like Part 1 of FGO) and i would say that they have a good track record on how to handle that kind of stuff.

I was talking about how they handle their own history and their war-crimes, not time-travel in general. I thought that was obvious.

And for the record, a story being long doesn't mean it handles it's subject material well. If all you have going for you is that you can ramble on and on, then you are not a good storyteller.

Summary:

FGO doesn't offend any country/race and only a minority of people from a certain country feel needlessly offended because "the event is set in 1945", "About WW2 alternate timeline", and "event announcement is on 6 june".

The request for FGO director to apologize is meaningless because it doesn't represent Japanese government or Japan as a a whole and the game story content is not related to that anyway.

Case Closed

People are getting over-sensitive because of social media, mainly attention-hungry-social-media-user.

Not all WW2 works from japan are offensive, take Studio Ghibli's Grave of the fireflies for example.

This event is just a victim from the previous case. People haven't cooled down their head and decide to use this event to put more fire to the whole controversy.

As a FGO Player i really hope this doesn't lead to this event cancellation. OKITA ALTER FOR LIFE!!!

EnragedOtaku wrote:

People are getting over-sensitive because of social media, mainly attention-hungry-social-media-user.

Not all WW2 works from japan are offensive, take Studio Ghibli's Grave of the fireflies for example.

This event is just a victim from the previous case. People haven't cooled down their head and decide to use this event to put more fire to the whole controversy.

As a FGO Player i really hope this doesn't lead to this event cancellation. OKITA ALTER FOR LIFE!!!

I doubt they're going to cancel it on JP server. Korean server in other hands... But I doubt anyone beside actual Korean play that server.

now there's this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/8p9a67/regarding_gudaguda_3_year_1945_controversy/
So, there's a posibility that this whole mess was caused by people who don't even play the damn game and majority of korean playerbase are taking the "wait and see" approach.

Trendo wrote:

Everyone that played FateGo knows, that chaldeas mission is to correct the false timeline to the right.
In the Event the story plays as "Japan will win the war" and its your mission to stop that, otherwise it would cause a false singularity.
So....yeah, the outrage is stupid

Just so you know, that is only their mission for part 1 of the FGO story. Guda Guda 3 requires you to have completed part 1 of the story so it is more likely that the event is related to part 2. I don't want to give away anything, but in part 2 you are no longer correcting false timelines. You are dealing with legitimate alternate histories in the present time.

Meongantuk wrote:

So, there's a posibility that this whole mess was caused by people who don't even play the damn game and majority of korean playerbase are taking the "wait and see" approach.

That seems to generally be the case with most 'controversy' stuff as it related to games. The people who buy the games don't seem to actually care. Of course someone who doesn't play a game could still be legitimately offended by it, but that doesn't mean the developers should cater to them.

Well,OtherSideofSky,I don't think the year 1945 is in and of itself the cause because that was the year World War II ended. My guess is the reason why so many people are angry about this is most likely because it might be seen as an attempt to trivialize or whitewash the horrors of what Imperial Japan did during the war. There have been some anime that have done this. Stuff like "Kishin Corps" and 'Deep Blue Fleet" have taken immense liberties with history or were really bizarre alternate histories.
Also,don't forget that China and both North and South Korea have very ugly histories with Japan. Japan had invaded that country a number of times. For example,they invaded Korea in 1592 but eventually expelled them in 1598. Much later,in 1905,there was a treaty that made Korea a protectorate of Japan. Years later,in 1910,they pretty much took over Korea and basically treated the Koreans very harshly. The Japanese tried to destroy Korean culture,even trying to change Korean names to Japanese names and this was done very brutally.

This and what happened during World War II has often led to a great deal of anger between Japan and her neighbors. To me,it would be no big surprise is that all that history would lead to stuff like this,even among immigrants from nations like South Korea,China,the Philippines,Vietnam,Indonesia,Burma,etc when they left their countries to come to America and would probably tell this to their American-born children. I don't know how immigrants from those countries would feel about Japanese anime playing on American television or manga translated into English in American bookstores,libraries,and the like or even about a website like this.
I know of no incident of either an immigrant from the above countries or their American descendants protesting any sort of manga or anime that was brought over here although looking at some of them,I amazed that hasn't happened yet. So,I hope you get what I'm saying OtherSideofSky. I don't blame the Chinese,Koreans,or other Asians for being angry at this "Fate/Grand Order" game. It opened up a lot of wounds that have yet to heal,even among a number of non-Japanese Asian-Americans.

Here the synopsis of Koha Ace - Teito Seihai Kitan (the manga this event based on)

https://m.facebook.com/TMTHEORY/posts/2085351461740246

The manga itself is a gag manga, just see the summary yourself, I don't think there is anything offensive in the manga.

https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/8plwdp/fatekohaace_chapter_14_typeset/

Snomaster1, I know all the history, but your explanation still sounds like being offended by things that you fear FGO might do based on things that other, totally unrelated works by different creators have done, not by anything that FGO has actually done or expressed an intention to do.

A list of historical atrocities that are primarily associated with dates prior to 1945 does not amount to argument for why the mere mention of the year 1945 in a piece of Japanese media amounts to "an attempt to trivialize or whitewash the horrors of what Imperial Japan did during the war."

Social media was a mistake.

OtherSideofSky wrote:

Snomaster1, I know all the history, but your explanation still sounds like being offended by things that you fear FGO might do based on things that other, totally unrelated works by different creators have done, not by anything that FGO has actually done or expressed an intention to do.

When all of Japan collectively has a problem of trying to ignore their past crimes it becomes a reasonable expectation that any Japanese media will do the same. Besides, it becomes even more reasonable to expect it from this franchise because whitewashing history is kind of what FGO does. It just hasn't bothered many people so far because the history they have tackled has been far enough into the past that it doesn't cause much harm. They have made one misogynistic serial-killer into a sympathetic child and an absolute tyrant, bigot and madman into a cute girl who just loves spectacle. FGO is not the franchise I would trust to portray a difficult time in history like this one.

I cannot agree with the practice of preemptively judging an unpublished work guilty of any offense.

Your example of the portrayal of historical figures is also poorly chosen, because we already know that no person who was alive during or in any way associated with WWII or 20th century Japanese colonialism will even be in the event as major characters (or probably at all).

If you want a relevant pattern of FGO dodging history, you should instead point to the fact that there has never been a story or event scenario in which the player travels to the time and place of a historical conflict and finds the historical participants in that conflicts present. They go to the Hundred Years War and find both the France and England routed by dragons. They go to North America during the American Revolutionary War and find that both the American and British forces already wiped out by the ancient Celts. They go to the area around Jerusalem at the height of the Third Crusade and find both the crusader and Muslim forces already wiped out by the ancient Egyptians and the Knights of the Round Table. Based on that precedent, I expect this upcoming event to not feature any controversial figure and possibly not even to feature WWII (that map of Tokyo is at night, but it doesn't appear to show any damage from bombing, nor were there any military elements in the trailer).

So, if your argument is that any work set in this time period that doesn't specifically focus on wartime and colonial atrocities is offensive, then this event will probably be offensive because FGO has never to my recollection stopped to remember a historical atrocity not committed by the US against native Americans. When it comes to portrayals of Japan's role leading up to and during WWII, however, we will have to wait and see what the event story actually contains before it will be possible to criticize with any credibility.

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