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The Gundam Plot Coherency Scale

unfortunately bandai isnt around anymore so the odds of a dub considering that its now being licensed by right stuff/nozumi ent is more or less unlikely unless someone decides to do a kickstarter program.

Laplace's box is a neat idea, it's stupid to assume that unveiling it would change anything.

So, let's talk about Laplace's Box.

This is brought up relatively often in the discussion of Unicorn's ending, but the exact nature of the Box, its place in the narrative, and the implications of its contents aren't really ever properly presented in the show itself, so it's easy to view it as both pointless and nonsensical. It isn't, though! The show does explain enough to plausibly infer enough to make the Box a compelling narrative element, even as it fails to communicate that to the audience in a straightforward way (as much as I adore the series, its final episode does almost impressive disservice to practically every element of the show). Spoilers from here on out, and apologies for the wall of text.

The facts: spoiler[Laplace's Box is the original Federation charter, which includes a lost clause guaranteeing government representation for "people adapted to living in space."

At the start of the show, we see a terrorist attack on the Prime Minister's residence during the inaugural Universal Century address. A terrorist, who survives an implied backstabby-explosion of his own ship, recovers what turns out to be the Charter. This is Syam Vist, who we later learn has been using the existing charter to blackmail the Federation into personal wealth.

We hear that the existence of the Box is basically just rumour to the average citizen, but there's a tradition within the Federation government of appeasing Vist demands out of a transmitted fear of the Box's contents (the problems of generational transmission being a major theme of the series, and all). Syam later has a change of heart, and he and his son Cardeas decide to "correct" the trajectory of the UC by entrusting the Box to somebody who will use it for good, which is something they plan to verify through the wonders of the Unicorn Gundam and its Psycommu technology. This kicks off the plot.]

The Devil's in the Details: spoiler[It's really important to note that the lost clause does not guarantee "rights for Newtypes." Putting a clause on a government charter allowing for Space Psychics is commonly highlighted as nonsense, which it would be, but that's not what it says - it says "people adapted to living in space." On a charter created just as humanity was beginning to expand to living in space. What that says to me is that Ricardo Marcenas, or whoever had a hand in writing the charter, wanted to include provisions that allowed the voices of those people to be heard in government and in policy. The needs of the future space colonists were, after all, likely to be different from those living on Earth, which is all the government would have been made up of at the time, so it was important to guarantee them a voice.

So why would the loss of the charter have been an issue? Why did nobody remember it? Because it was the government that disposed of it! This is pretty clear, given that the terrorist ship is itself blown up and certain top-level Federation officials are aware of what Laplace's box is even in 0096, but that naturally begs the question as to why they'd go to such trouble. This is conjecture, but it follows pretty well that, after spending centuries putting together a one-world government, certain factions might not want to rock the boat that allowed for that too much, and maintaining control over every aspect of government structure is a good way to guarantee that (this fits the themes of the show as well - flawed stability versus potentially-disastrous change). So this faction uses a terrorist attack as a cover to purge Ricardo's faction and replace the constitution. Great! ]

The Implications: spoiler[Of course, Syam survives and now he's blackmailing the Feds. Another common point brought up is "why does the Federation fear the Box enough? What gives it this power?" Part of it is, again, tradition and urban legend - the Sleeves pursue the Box not because they know what it is, but because of rumours surrounding its anti-government power - but it does exert real influence over the Federation, both across the UC as a whole and in the OVA itself, so that's a fair question. The Federation committing mass murder to secure the government would probably be a heck of a thing for the public to realize, and a potentially-destabilising something so early in the new government's existence. That, combined with the fact that Syam didn't really want much more than a comfortable place among the wealthy elite of society, led to a policy of Vist appeasement and a tradition of fearing the Box. Could it prove as destabilising 90 years down the line? It could certainly shake things up.] Which brings me to the next point - the implications to the post-0100 Gundam series.

Sulfy wrote:

Laplace's box is a neat idea, it's stupid to assume that unveiling it would change anything.

This is another common point brought up, and I think it's looking at the whole situation the wrong way. It's not so much that Laplace's Box changed anything, it's that its revelation led to what we know does happen: a Federation diminished in space to the point of irrelevance, as seen in F91 (and even moreso in Victory). Could that be explained before Unicorn? Sure, just like the rise of the Titans could be explained before 0083. But if you look at the ending of Unicorn as spoiler[causing the governments of colonies to demand self-governance as originally promised, and the Federation allowing it to smooth over the bad will brought about by the revelation that they committed domestic terrorism to actively suppress a policy that would have allowed it], then it actually fits quite nicely.

Of course, given that Unicorn is getting at least one sequel, we may get a different outlook on the OVA's ending. But in and of itself, I think the Box's contents work for both the series it appears in and the UC side of the franchise as a whole.

I thought I was done seeing these kinds of superficial biases towards my favorite Gundam series when I left the fandom in the early 2000s, but apparently that's not the case. If you're not willing to leave such biases out of your reporting or remind people that these things are your own opinions, I suggest that ANN find someone else to write about Gundam instead.

This is another common point brought up, and I think it's looking at the whole situation the wrong way. It's not so much that Laplace's Box changed anything, it's that its revelation led to what we know does happen: a Federation diminished in space to the point of irrelevance, as seen in F91 (and even moreso in Victory). Could that be explained before Unicorn? Sure, just like the rise of the Titans could be explained before 0083. But if you look at the ending of Unicorn as spoiler[causing the governments of colonies to demand self-governance as originally promised, and the Federation allowing it to smooth over the bad will brought about by the revelation that they committed domestic terrorism to actively suppress a policy that would have allowed it], then it actually fits quite nicely.

I thought I was done seeing these kinds of superficial biases towards my favorite Gundam series when I left the fandom in the early 2000s, but apparently that's not the case. If you're not willing to leave such biases out of your reporting or remind people that these things are your own opinions, I suggest that ANN find someone else to write about Gundam instead.

So, let's talk about Laplace's Box.

This is brought up relatively often in the discussion of Unicorn's ending, but the exact nature of the Box, its place in the narrative, and the implications of its contents aren't really ever properly presented in the show itself; as such, it's easy to view it all as both pointless and nonsensical. It isn't, though! The show does explain enough to plausibly infer enough to make the Box a compelling narrative element, even as it fails to communicate that to the audience in a straightforward way (as much as I adore the series, its final episode does almost impressive disservice to practically every element of the show). Spoilers from here on out, and apologies for the wall of text.

The facts
spoiler[Laplace's Box is the original Federation charter, which includes a lost clause guaranteeing government representation for "people adapted to living in space."

At the start of the show, we see a terrorist attack on the Prime Minister's residence during the inaugural Universal Century address. A terrorist, who survives an implied backstabby-explosion of his own ship, recovers what turns out to be the Charter. This is Syam Vist, who we later learn has been using the existing charter to blackmail the Federation into personal wealth, and this becomes known as Laplace's Box: a revelation that could lead to chaos.

We hear that the existence of the Box is basically just an obscure conspiracy theory to most people by the time of 0096, but there's still a tradition within the Federation government of appeasing Vist demands out of a transmitted fear of the Box's contents (the problems of generational transmission being a major theme of the series, and all). At some point, Syam has a change of heart, and he and his son Cardeas decide to "correct" the trajectory of the UC by entrusting the Box to somebody who will use it for good, which is something they plan to verify through the wonders of the Unicorn Gundam and its Psycommu technology. This kicks off the plot.]

The Devilish Details
spoiler[Just to get this out of the way off the bat, it's really important to note that the lost clause does not guarantee "rights for Newtypes." Putting a clause on a government charter allowing for the potential emergence of Space Psychics is commonly highlighted as nonsense, which it would be, but that's not what it says - it says "people adapted to living in space." On a charter created just as humanity was beginning to expand to living in space. What that says to me is that Ricardo Marcenas, or whoever had a hand in writing the charter, wanted to include provisions that allowed the voices of those people to be heard in government and in policy. The needs of the future space colonists were, after all, likely to be different from those living on Earth, which is all the government would have been made up of at the time, so it was important to guarantee them a voice.

But why would the loss of the charter have been an issue in the first place? Why did nobody remember it, if the government as a whole survived and flourished? Because it was the government that disposed of it! This is pretty clear, given that the terrorist ship is itself blown up and certain top-level Federation officials are aware of what Laplace's box is even in 0096, but that naturally begs the question as to why they'd go to such trouble. This is conjecture, but it follows pretty well that, after spending centuries putting together a one-world government, certain factions might not want to rock the boat that allowed for that too much, and maintaining control over every aspect of government structure is a good way to guarantee that (this fits the themes of the show as well - flawed stability versus potentially-disastrous change). So this faction uses a terrorist attack as a cover to purge Ricardo's faction and replace the constitution. Great! ]

The Implications
spoiler[Of course, Syam survives and now he's blackmailing the Feds. Another common point brought up is "why does the Federation fear the Box at all? What gives it this power?" Part of it is, again, tradition and urban legend - the Sleeves pursue the Box not because they know what it is, but because of rumours surrounding its anti-government power - but it does exert real influence over the Federation, both across the UC as a whole and in the OVA itself, so that's a fair question. The Federation committing mass murder to secure the government would probably be a heck of a thing for the public to realize, and a potentially-destabilising something so early in the new government's existence. Could it prove as destabilising 90 years down the line? It could certainly shake things up, and the Federation is only really fully at peace for the first 50-odd years of its existence; after that, we start getting Zeon as a movement, and as they gain more influence it becomes worse and worse for the implications of Laplace's Box to become public knowledge. That, combined with the fact that Syam didn't really want much more than a comfortable place among the wealthy elite of society, led to a policy of Vist appeasement and a tradition of fearing the Box.]

So that takes care of pre-Unicorn implications, but what about the implications to the post-0100 Gundam series?

Sulfy wrote:

Laplace's box is a neat idea, it's stupid to assume that unveiling it would change anything.

This is another common point brought up, and I think it's looking at the whole situation the wrong way. It's not so much that Laplace's Box changed anything, it's that its revelation led to what we know does happen: a Federation diminished in space to the point of irrelevance, as seen in F91 (and even moreso in Victory). Could that be explained before Unicorn? Sure, just like the rise of the Titans could be explained before 0083. But if you look at the ending of Unicorn as spoiler[causing the governments of colonies to demand self-governance as originally promised, and the Federation allowing it to smooth over the bad will brought about by the revelation that they committed domestic terrorism to actively suppress a policy that would have allowed it], then it actually fits quite nicely.

Of course, given that Unicorn is getting at least one sequel, we may get a different outlook on the OVA's ending. But in and of itself, I think the Box's contents work for both the series it appears in and the UC side of the franchise as a whole.

Gundam X has "dubious coherency" because...it was cancelled and had a Newtype dolphin? Really? That's all you can come up with for your argument?

Yah. G Gundam is fun as h*ll if you just turn off your brain and accept the show's almost non-existent internal logic.

spoiler[This is all well and good but doesn't address my fundamental point that this isn't how treaties get made. The Charter wouldn't have been drawn up in some back room somewhere, where if you blow up a spaceship you can get almost everyone who knows what was on it. It would have been the product of grueling negotiations over a number of years between what were until that point individual sovereign states, and each of those states would have known what they had agreed to. In democratic countries, at least (and probably plenty of non-democratic countries too), this information would also have been in the public domain, so even ordinary citizens would know about it, provided they were interested enough to follow the news. Either the "rights for Newtypes" (my shorthand) clause was in the Charter, and millions of people should have known that, or as Sulfy suggested, it was a secret up until the ceremony, in which case it couldn't have had legal force if nobody had ever actually agreed to it. The idea that there's just a surprise clause in the Charter doesn't work on like a fundamental level that I can't gloss over the way I can shrug off, say, Newtypes themselves as just a thing that exists in this story. ]

This, to me, honestly makes it worse, in another sense - it feels like Harutoshi Fukui's way of rubbing his greasy hands all over allllll of UC Gundam, as if any of this stuff was necessary for stories written decades ago with their own reasons for things going the way they did.

spoiler[I mean, there's just so much wrong about it that it's hard to know where to start, but you only essentially covered point that don't actually matters. Just a few more point (aside from it making no sense on legal point of view) if you feel like debating some more. How do you prove you have the real charter? How do you prove you didn't put the new clause yourself? Why would the government agree to the extra section but then commit terrorism to get out of it? Why would the government actually recognize new type as the "people adapted to living in space" (it's not like they can breath in space or are capable of flying or anything)? Why would the government not just say that they do allow the representation of that group in the federation ("Hey look Amuro was a new type and he was involved")? And that's just a small part of the problems, I can come up with dozens more. It makes no sense.]

Three disparate stories are united by early CGI animation. Even at the most sensical of times, it feels like you're watching a '90s PlayStation cutscene, with the same level of tedious storytelling that is really only acceptable as a supplement to gameplay. These OVAs rely on the additional context of the One Year War depicted through all Universal Century timeline Gundam shows, but all that canon isn't enough to make sense of this. The strangest factor is an “angel of death” in '90s JRock clothes who follows a Federation soldier around until his death. The tale of a doomed soldier turns goofy when contrasted with his companion's leather getup and heavy eyeliner. A story told in pieces through said angel and a noncombatant's notes after the fact does not make for a very coherent plot.

(3) spoiler[Q: Why would the government actually recognize new type as the "people adapted to living in space" (it's not like they can breath in space or are capable of flying or anything)? Why would the government not just say that they do allow the representation of that group in the federation ("Hey look Amuro was a new type and he was involved")?

A: Again, it's not about "Newtypes" - it's about Spacenoids. "Adaptation" can mean a lot of things, not just biological or evolutionary; it just means they're adapted to the unique challenges that living in space presents. ]

(1) spoiler[Q: How do you prove you have the real charter? How do you prove you didn't put the new clause yourself?

A: As those responsible felt the need to kill their own hired guns, they must have had presented a liability somehow, so it probably has something to do with that. Maybe Syam was aware of who hired his group, and had enough to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt not just government involvement, but the reasoning behind it.]