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EP. REVIEW: Banana Fish


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killjoy_the



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 2457
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:38 pm Reply with quote
The 10 minutes I was able to bear of this episode were almost Mahouka-level of deifying the main character. Christ (pun intended).
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GVentola



Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:57 pm Reply with quote
I was enjoying this review until the author used it to state her views on the Kavanaugh case. True, women (and some men, too) have experienced sexual assault & harrassment. I myself, last year, was kissed several times on the lips without my consent by an amorous supermarket custodian. Haven't been back to that store for over a year now. These women deserve justice & deserve to be heard & to be taken seriously. But you can't go the opposite extreme, and assume that every woman out there is holy, totally above reproach,& incapable of lying. That's totally illogical. There are billions of women; chances are at least some of them are shady. Even if they're not lying, they could have a faulty memory of events so long ago. It is not a misjustice of the American government to not convict a man when there was no solid evidence against him.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11306
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:27 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The offscreen nature of this incident and the focus on other characters' reactions makes it just a cruel cliffhanger. I'm sure Eiji will be in suspense for a while, and we'll see the drawn-out agony of his reaction. But the real mystery is why these guys feel the need to tell the world that Ash is gone. I guess we'll see.

How is that a mystery? The good Dr. Mannerheim wants to be able to run whatever experiments he's got planned for Ash without anyone nosing around trying to find him. By the same token, since we saw Ash alive and well in his clutches, it wasn't much of a cliffhanger, except for Eiji, et al.

One thing about this episode I really liked was how they depicted Ash coming out of the anesthesia. Aside from traumatic flashbacks, that was pretty much how I've experienced that process. You slowly become aware you have a body, but you can't move it, and everything just seems painless and peaceful. Then you really wake up and realize you hurt everywhere and feel like shit. Very Happy
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Graceful Nanami



Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Posts: 303
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:42 am Reply with quote
Yeah, I'm honestly not a huge fan of the way Rose sticks some things into her reviews. But it's her review, I guess!
The new OP is lovely and so sugary. It's almost weird for Banana Fish but, again, MAPPA are definitely trying to pander to another audience a bit more. And it's fine. Fluff isn't a bad thing. BF has a lot of sides to it, after all. The new ED is beautiful, visually. My goodness.
They really are going to have to cut a bunch of stuff, it's a shame but understandable. Possibly even a character or two. I'd go into lots of detail here but that's what the lovely BF subreddit is for.
It's distressing that it's halfway over already. The sweet pain can't end...
And yeah, classicalzawa. Wouldn't that be such a treat if they animated Garden of Light? I really hope anime-onlys go read that after the end. It's wonderful and almost cathartic.
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sagepidermis



Joined: 14 Oct 2018
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:15 am Reply with quote
is this show worth watching?
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Merida



Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 1945
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:58 am Reply with quote
killjoy_the wrote:
The 10 minutes I was able to bear of this episode were almost Mahouka-level of deifying the main character. Christ (pun intended).


Yeah, that finally made me put this show on hold for the time being, though it's been a bit too 80s melodrama-ish for my tastes for a while now . Nobody but Ash could have killed so many people and nobody else could have survived that injury yadda yadda...the idolizing of Ash has always bordered on the ridiculous but this time i was just Rolling Eyes throughout the entire episode.
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SailorTralfamadore



Joined: 25 Feb 2014
Posts: 499
Location: Keep Austin Weeb
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:37 am Reply with quote
GVentola wrote:
I was enjoying this review until the author used it to state her views on the Kavanaugh case. True, women (and some men, too) have experienced sexual assault & harrassment. I myself, last year, was kissed several times on the lips without my consent by an amorous supermarket custodian. Haven't been back to that store for over a year now. These women deserve justice & deserve to be heard & to be taken seriously. But you can't go the opposite extreme, and assume that every woman out there is holy, totally above reproach,& incapable of lying. That's totally illogical. There are billions of women; chances are at least some of them are shady. Even if they're not lying, they could have a faulty memory of events so long ago. It is not a misjustice of the American government to not convict a man when there was no solid evidence against him.


First of all, I'm really sorry about what happened to you.

I don't think women are incapable of lying about assault. But I do think that women pay such a high price for going forward with this sort of thing, and we've seen that happen in real-time with Dr. Ford (she is still getting death threats), that it makes it incredibly unlikely that someone in her position is going to be willy-nilly lying and making it up. And indeed, false rape threats make up an incredibly small percentage of rape cases, similar to the rate of false reports of other violent crimes. (And that's not factoring in that we know the vast majority of not-false rapes are not reported.) That's why I tend to default to believing victims unless there's some compelling reason not to, because I know how people treat women even when we do "everything right" and I know how that silences so many victims. And I've seen how incredibly different that is from how people are believed with accusations of other violent crimes, which is why they are more likely to be reported generally.

I also think there's a difference between wanting someone to go through a criminal trial for decades-old crimes that could be past the statute of limitations (IANAL), and not wanting this person to be on the highest court in the land and likely ruling on women's rights cases. (People have been failed to be confirmed for far lesser reasons.) But that's a whole different discussion.

Anyway, my point in bringing it up (while avoiding using any specific names, but I figured people could figure out what I was talking about) was the sort of atmosphere I think it's created for a lot of women in the U.S. over the past few weeks, at least the ones I've talked with about this and read stories about online. And it was tying into broader feelings about #MeToo that I've seen brought up with this show specifically, in both Japanese and American fandom. While men are rape victims and that has a devastating effect on those individual men and their trust in other people, the idea of having to be "constantly vigilant for rapists" is a thing women are socialized to feel like we have to do from early on, that men are not, regardless of if we've ever been raped ourselves. And I feel like Banana Fish is part of a tradition in manga written by and for women but about male characters, particularly the BL genre and its predecessors, of processing those feelings through men.
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Graceful Nanami



Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Posts: 303
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:56 am Reply with quote
Merida wrote:
killjoy_the wrote:
The 10 minutes I was able to bear of this episode were almost Mahouka-level of deifying the main character. Christ (pun intended).


Yeah, that finally made me put this show on hold for the time being, though it's been a bit too 80s melodrama-ish for my tastes for a while now . Nobody but Ash could have killed so many people and nobody else could have survived that injury yadda yadda...the idolizing of Ash has always bordered on the ridiculous but this time i was just Rolling Eyes throughout the entire episode.

Ash is the most feared gang boss in New York for many reasons. Ash has been trained and groomed so painstakingly well in so many feilds that this really shouldn't be unbelievbable. The show will hopefully get to this when a certain character is introduced soon. And if anything, the anime is putting a "second coming of christ" light on Eiji. Rightfully so because that's basically what he is for Ash. He's his savior through and through in a lot of ways.
Sorry you all are putting it on hold, though. Hope you come back to it.
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zawa113



Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 7357
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:12 pm Reply with quote
I'm not too upset with them glossing over the "Ash is dead" fakeout. The audience already knew it wasn't true, why waste our time having everyone completely buy into it?

I feel like his weird seduction dance was more tolerable in the manga form. No idea why, the content and the dance is pretty much the same, maybe the lack of sound actually made it tolerable? As for Ash turning every older guy gay....I'm just going to go with this explanation

I definitely agree that they need to knock off that annoying Chinese cliche music for Sing and Yut-Lung. It's so distracting, like if Tequila Gundam was introduced by a mariachi band or something every time it came on screen. This is the one track so far in an overall stellar soundtrack that's just gotten on my last nerves instantly.

While reading the manga, I too recall starting to get a bit annoyed that Ash is too damn perfect and unbeatable, but thankfully, something is going to come along and change that very soon (right when the series definitely needs it the most).

And I would also like to point out that in America, Banana Fish originally ran in Viz's "Pulp" Magazine so...
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katscradle



Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Posts: 469
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:52 pm Reply with quote
Episode 15 with Ash’s candy scene was one I was worried about. It really isn’t much different. I think being animated it’s naturally going to have more effect to some degree. It’s actually better now to me since the backgrounds were changed from the gag with a slur and then a reference to sexual position also cut. Maybe the scene had more lightheartedness in the comic. I can’t judge too much since I didn’t find humour in it in the first place also since how do I put it… solicitation via candy as a euphemism is a real thing.

Showing them cutting into the body at the autopsy was not cool though… I continue to wonder why MAPPA plays it looser when it comes to Ash for some reason.


Quote:
Ash's magical ability to Turn Every Older Man Gay also feels like something out of a pulp novel or a slash fanfiction.


This uh, does not feel like the best choice of words to me. The way it’s capitalized make me feel like it’s suppose to be referencing a trope. While the concept is familiar that’s not a name of it I know used. I’ve only heard this sort of wording used in real life situations coming from people with rather not nice attitudes tbh. Since there is an issue with conflation of sexuality and abusive behaviour it doesn't feel helpful here either.
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AA751



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
Posts: 72
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:12 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
He seems to be under the impression that he's prepubescent, not one year away from legal adulthood, given his assumption that he'd be so much easier to capture than a grown-up on the run.


I'm just here to say as of two episodes ago, and as was pointed out by one of the cops, Ash is now 18.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11306
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:40 pm Reply with quote
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His whole rescue of Prof. Dawson involves him repeatedly getting screwed over in order to help someone who doesn't benefit him in any way. ... But Ash still helps him, because Dawson was kind to him in the past, and because it's the right thing to do.

Um, no? He rescued Dawson because he needs him as evidence of what they're doing in the lab and what Banana Fish's effects are. I didn't detect any higher motives for that, given that Dawson was partly responsible for what happened to his brother.

The demonstration of his "broader compassion" was going back in to rescue Max and Ibe. He really didn't want to do that, but his conscience wouldn't let him leave them to their fate.

This episode was a lot of fun though. Poor Ash just couldn't catch a break! I especially enjoyed the cliched sliding-under-the-closing-door trope, because they made it look so cool, while also making it funny with how he just lobbed Dawson under the door like he was bowling for a strike. Very Happy
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katscradle



Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Posts: 469
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:40 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
His whole rescue of Prof. Dawson involves him repeatedly getting screwed over in order to help someone who doesn't benefit him in any way. Dawson has been reduced by the B1 drug to being unintelligent with seemingly no survival instincts, so he's basically just a load who slows Ash down. But Ash still helps him, because Dawson was kind to him in the past, and because it's the right thing to do.


Ash taking Dawson wasn’t exactly altruistic. He’s living proof of Banana Fish. Ash also said that in the episode when he said Dawson was coming with him.

I’m not arguing Ash has a tendency to stick his neck out for several people but, Ash has a lot of reasons to dislike Dawson. In fact one might say there is a bit of poetic justice to Dawson’s own drug being used against him. His curiosity has trumped human life on more than one occasion. He was so dedicated to his ideas of scientific discovery he refused to destroy a drug he stumbled on trying to make money through drug-dealing even when he knew the lethality and danger. Even present day when Dawson helped Ibe after Yut-Lung poisoned Ibe; Dawson was fascinated by what Yut-Lung could have used. I’m not sure what kindness he’s performed, especially towards Ash.



AA751 wrote:
Quote:
He seems to be under the impression that he's prepubescent, not one year away from legal adulthood, given his assumption that he'd be so much easier to capture than a grown-up on the run.


I'm just here to say as of two episodes ago, and as was pointed out by one of the cops, Ash is now 18.


Yep Jenkins after Ash wakes up from surgery mentions his age in episode 14. Also Ash’s birthday of August 12th has been referenced in the anime and we’re somewhere around November(?) now I think since the fight with Arthur was Halloween.
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Graceful Nanami



Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Posts: 303
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:46 am Reply with quote
Definitely echoing the above posts... Ash despises Alexis. Maaaaybe not as much as Abraham but still. Also, fun fact: Akimi Yoshida made August 12 Ash's birthday because it is also her own. Cute.

...I don't want to believe this anime is over halfway done. Please give us the side stories in OAVs, MAPPA. I know they won't, though. Especially because they're doing new drama CDs for them. One for Angel Eyes came with the new Japanese blurays.
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katscradle



Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Posts: 469
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:55 am Reply with quote
Graceful Nanami wrote:
...I don't want to believe this anime is over halfway done. Please give us the side stories in OAVs, MAPPA. I know they won't, though. Especially because they're doing new drama CDs for them. One for Angel Eyes came with the new Japanese blurays.


I agree it would be nice to see those side stories animated. Though, I think MAPPA have kind of referenced or included a little from them. Except obviously The Garden With Holy Light since that’s the epilogue. It felt like the anime was referencing Angel Eyes in the episode with Shorter's death which gave that episode more of an affect to me. It would be especially nice seeing more of the backstories of Ash and Eiji/Ibe from Private Opinion and Fly Boy, in the Sky since those weren't always released overseas. (Hey VIZ maybe at least try to get the Banana Fish Another Story volume hmm? Or is Private Opinion an issue?) Maybe I’m biased though since Private Opinion is my favourite of them. Hoping maybe for some of it included in the next weeks. Feels like the anime has to pick up the pace more dramatically or, cut more since we’re about halfway through volume 11. I’d really like to end on The Garden of Holy Light if they’re not rewriting.
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