Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Banana Fish
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AA751
Posts: 72 |
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I would disagree, especially if you've read Private Opinion. |
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SailorTralfamadore
 Posts: 499 Location: Keep Austin Weeb |
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Ooh, I'm curious. Could you expand on that? (Feel free to put spoilers if you tag them, I'm not coming into the show blind and know some of what's coming, but I'm sure other people who haven't read the manga don't want to read untagged spoilers.) |
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AA751
Posts: 72 |
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Okay now I feel bad saying negative things (although I have more before), but I know this is a matter of opinion but. spoiler[Private Opinion deals when Blanca first meets Ash. Ash is about 13 or 14 years old? IN the absolute first scene where Blanca puts eyes on Ash, Ash had just been raped and he was laid out unclothed, with a gaze lovingly focused on his beautiful body in a gazebo in the garden. Later on, Ash has a panic attack in bed, and is writhing around not able to breath and, it's been a while so maybe I'm misrembering it, but Blanca has to get on the bed and give him mouth to mouth to help him, and the way it's framed is very ...erotic and very much based on the popular images of yaoi. (i'm not going to reread all of it, so maybe I'm misremembering this) A lot of the time the imagery portrays Ash as this sensuous young thing, and Yoshida draws him as such in loving detail. ] Images I'm referring to, spoiler - [Removed link to scanlation] |
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Akanue
Posts: 4 |
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Just wanted to throw in my two cents on this: spoiler[In that scene, Blanca does NOT give Ash mouth to mouth. I can factually dispute that, and my source is that I own Private Opinion. He holds Ash and tries to comfort him/get him to calm down during a panic attack post-rape where he's unable to breathe. I.e. what most decent people would do in that situation. As you state, it's a matter of opinion, but I personally have never felt that scene was framed in an erotic way. It has always felt (platonically) warm in how kind Blanca is to Ash when no one else in his life is.] spoiler[I won't deny how Ash is drawn in the gazebo scene, which takes place near the beginning of Private Opinion. I will also throw in my opinion that the scene where Foxx rapes Ash was more sensualised in the anime in the way they drew and framed Ash's body during it.] I also 100% agree that, as much as I love Banana Fish, if they wanted to update this story to the modern setting they needed to make some significant changes (some I'm sure Yoshida wouldn't like). They either needed to go all the way or leave it in the '80s. |
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AA751
Posts: 72 |
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Thanks for the correction, as I said I might be misremembering and I would not dispute you even without the source...because umm why would I?
But I just recall something dodgy about it. I was actually speculating with a friend the reason changes won't made was because of Yoshida...but yeah. |
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Crisha
Moderator
 Posts: 4290 |
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Cleaned up some recent responses and snark.
Guys, if you want to disagree, do so without being a jerk about it. If you think that reviewers should have more experience with the source material, then leave comments or suggestions in the Feedback forum. But don't harass the reviewers just because the reviews aren't turning out the way you want them to. |
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katscradle
Posts: 469 |
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I stepped away for awhile because the discussions, especially with episodes that deal with abuse Ash faces have been incredibly difficult and frankly bad for my mental health. So as someone who had in comments for reviews here brought up previous examples where I questioned the framing (even then I have said overall one instance might not be unusual considering all instances together, unless it's about how a character's gender affects this) in relation to the manga vs. anime, I find parts in this review concerning (once again). But, differences in opinion on Banana Fish aside, I feel reasonable in saying at the very least this most recent review is not written well. [EDIT: Removed one sentence in relation to twitter.]
It’s even more unfortunate Private Opinion is not officially in English because now people are citing it too. I thought ANN didn’t allow links to scanlations? I own Private Opinion as well. While that story when Ash is 14 it is a little more than what one may have seen during the main Banana Fish run it never felt exploitative to me. It’s actually as I’ve said before a favourite of the extra stories of mine because spoiler[it's the first time Ash met Blanca and Blanca is one of the few characters that takes an interest in him outside domination and sexual purposes.] I really don’t know how to respond to this new line of discussion about “ultra-sexualized”. So I’m thoroughly done. Peace. |
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Crisha
Moderator
Posts: 4290 |
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Comments disagreeing with the review like the above are fine; however, I am removing the one sentence in regards to what's been going around on twitter. I've read through the twitter comments myself, and several are the type of harassment we are not allowing on the forums. I have removed posts on this forum of similar derogatory nature, and I think it's best to just not start discussing what's going around on twitter.
As for links to scanlations, I'll remove the earlier reference in this thread, thanks for pointing it out. |
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Errant-Sophist
Posts: 7 |
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Actually, I thought this episode handled the sexual assault with relative caution and respect. It's not only that the show follows its consistent policy of implying but not showing rape, but what I was really impressed by was that the series dedicated so much screen time to the aftermath by demonstrating how Ash is deeply traumatized by it rather than moving on to the next gunfight without a second glance. The most meaningful interaction, I think, was between Jessica and Ash, who are both survivors. Banana Fish equates female and male victims of sexual assault and emphasizes the traumatic consequences. It's rare to see an anime opt to give such a voice to rape survivors, let alone male rape survivors, so I was pretty moved by these scenes.
I also can't agree that the camera ogles him or shows off Ash's body. I'm not sure what the review was referring to, so I watched it again, and it seems like there was a brief shot of his waist as Foxx grabbed it before the actual assault, and then after, a quick shot of Ash battered (but still mostly clothed). A closeup of his waist again is definitely not showing off Ash's "ripped muscles" (I'm not aware any of his muscles were actually on display at any point) but rather the disarray of his clothing, which is what clarifies what happened and should be framing the scene as horrific, not sexy. Now, in fairness, I think there have been past moments in the series that have perhaps toed the line of voyeurism at imagery of Ash bound and battered, so the critique might have some basis in earlier scenes, but doesn't feel appropriate for this episode. Foxx is a redundant character for a redundant arc, I agree, but I would guess the purpose of the assault, as well as Eiji's alleged death, serve as ignition for Ash's breaking point and unleashing the inner demons he's spent the series mulling over. Thus, whether or not Eiji is actually dead, it's probably Ash's point of no return, which logically should build to the finale with thematic cohesion. Difficult to say before seeing how the series actually concludes, though. |
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Graceful Nanami
Posts: 303 Location: United States |
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Beautiful posts kats and Errant. Thank you.
I was quite looking forward to the conversation between Ash and Jessica. That scene is one of the most important scenes in the entire manga. I'm so glad MAPPA kept it. Next week is it. 40 minutes of beauty that I am so excited for. Some fans are even taking off work for it, haha! I wish I could have been that smart. This series is one of a kind and so special. Thank you for everything Yoshida and MAPPA. |
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zawa113
 Posts: 7357 |
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I do rather feel like the whole thing with Foxx is the series narrative weak point. But at least in the manga, he does get a lot more scenes. Ash and Foxx spend damn near an entire volume playing cat and mouse with each other until the big showdown from the other episode (the one where Max and the others end up captured). He shows a lot more involvement with trying to get Banana Fish. And he spends a lot more scenes with Dino.
This is definitely another case of the anime cramming in too much. I would've been ok with them cutting out Foxx entirely after his showdown with Ash (maybe just have Dino fire him or something). On the plus side, the anime DID add Sing punching Lao! Another anime change that I approve of so much! I am loving how they're drawing out some of the awesome Ash + Eiji scenes to play a bit longer and tug at our heartstrings even more! They basically started doing this since Eiji's pole vault jump in ep 2. |
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Graceful Nanami
Posts: 303 Location: United States |
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I am... honestly disappointed in MAPPA a bit here.
I'll say it again, everyone please do yourself a favor and read the side story Garden of Light after the finale. It will help. I really can't believe MAPPA changed it in this way, even if it is slight. That is all. |
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Ryuji-Dono
 Posts: 1210 |
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Who else here felt the need to tear up after watching the ending...
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Graceful Nanami
Posts: 303 Location: United States |
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Ash is not meant to be objectified in any way and I wish people would stop using the "its a product of its time" line. Now that really is all. Thank you, Akimi Yoshida.
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Rednimue
Posts: 107 |
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Now that the show's over I'd like to know how the anime adaptation was handled compared to the source material and side material.
Is It faithful ? Did they skip and/or changed something (except for the modernization of the setting) ? Is It complete ? Is there any kind of censorship ? Fell free to point out everything that comes to mind, possibly without spoilers. Thank you in advance 
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