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Answerman - Are Dub Crew Members Taking Over Voice Actors' Jobs?


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Manga Producer J.M.



Joined: 12 Aug 2018
Posts: 32
Location: Longwood, FL, United States
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:28 pm Reply with quote
[quote="NearEasternerJ1"][quote="Zalis116"]
NearEasternerJ1 wrote:
Although dub VAs are somewhat trustworthy, they sometimes tend to exaggerate.


...or get upset and lie by making substituted analogies on a Facebook post to their vast army of fans about not being recognized by Anime magazine phoneline operators for making incognito phonecalls to help certain fans/remote-collaborators. And never bring up having called a number you refered them through email. But maybe I'm reading too much into things.
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AbZeroNow



Joined: 14 Jan 2013
Posts: 519
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:17 pm Reply with quote
NearEasternerJ1 wrote:
Japanese licensors don't approve or disapprove of dub casting. That's a myth. A lot of people say that Japanese licensors approve or disapprove based on the sound of the actor's voice relative to the Japanese original, but most leads sound nothing like the Japanese which debunk the myth. It seems voice actors use the myth to deflect criticism. Like Sonny Strait said that the Japanese director of Escaflowne was involved in the dub to deflect criticism.

Don't peddle the myth, Justin.


Maybe they are more hands off in Texas dubs, but Japanese were definitely involved in the casting of the new Sailor Moon dub. And I'm sure other California dubs have had the Japanese exercise veto power over casting decisions, but it could be case by case.

You also have cases where the Japanese are delaying dubs in other languages as apparently the Japanese weren't happy about the English dub of Yuri!!! On Ice and this has so far hurt its chances of getting a dub in French.
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Angel M Cazares



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:28 pm Reply with quote
AbZeroNow wrote:
Maybe they are more hands off in Texas dubs, but Japanese were definitely involved in the casting of the new Sailor Moon dub. And I'm sure other California dubs have had the Japanese exercise veto power over casting decisions, but it could be case by case.

To be fair, I am sure the licensors have veto power over dubs, but I highly doubt they are as hands on as Justin characterizes it; simuldubs would be impossible to deliver.
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Manga Producer J.M.



Joined: 12 Aug 2018
Posts: 32
Location: Longwood, FL, United States
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:44 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
AbZeroNow wrote:
Maybe they are more hands off in Texas dubs, but Japanese were definitely involved in the casting of the new Sailor Moon dub. And I'm sure other California dubs have had the Japanese exercise veto power over casting decisions, but it could be case by case.

To be fair, I am sure the licensors have veto power over dubs, but I highly doubt they are as hands on as Justin characterizes it; simuldubs would be impossible to deliver.


Well, modern animation and anime has always been an overall healthy mixture of interaction, presence, communication, moderation, and absence, online and off. Local, City, County, Statewide, National, and International, well, in the states anyway.
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Punch Drunk Marc



Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:07 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
AbZeroNow wrote:
Maybe they are more hands off in Texas dubs, but Japanese were definitely involved in the casting of the new Sailor Moon dub. And I'm sure other California dubs have had the Japanese exercise veto power over casting decisions, but it could be case by case.

To be fair, I am sure the licensors have veto power over dubs, but I highly doubt they are as hands on as Justin characterizes it; simuldubs would be impossible to deliver.


Like some one said earlier its case by case. Obviously not every show gets looked at. It's probably big things like SAO, AOT, DB, and big shows like that. I'm sure licensors don't care about the dub for Big Boob Harem Show #658 or Isekai #2599.

When Funi showed the FT dub for the first time I know heard it being said that Mashima was worried about Todd Haberkorn was cast as Natsu because he (Natsu) yells a lot, but he ended up liking it. Though that might be a completely separate issue.
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KitKat1721



Joined: 03 Feb 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:08 pm Reply with quote
Funimation recently transitioned from contracted writers, to a full in-house, employed staff of adaptive script writers. Some fans noticed it when three sequels this year (Steins;Gate 0, Tokyo Ghoul, High School DxD) had a different script writer than before, and those writers were all cast as main characters in their respective shows.

It seems like a bit of an adjustment because many of those writers/actors haven't been super pleased about it.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:14 pm Reply with quote
Manga Producer J.M. wrote:
SHD wrote:
Wow. Is this something that happens regularly in the US? I worked in the dubbing industry for a number of years (not anymore though but I was production manager at a dubbing studio) and I've never heard of actors working other jobs in professional dubs. Sure, I've known an actor who had a sort of one-man dub service where he had a small studio at home where he would record stuff for a couple of steady clients (these were usually commercials that he could do a lot cheaper than if the clients were to hire a studio).

But I've never heard of something like an actor also handling the script in any capacity other than performing it, or doing any other non-acting task... let alone production using someone who is not, by profession, an actor, to act in a dub as something other than walla (unless it was absolutely necessary, which is how I ended up in a number of dubs/voiceovers in tiny minor mob roles). Never mind the person then not getting paid for it. What.

(I've also never heard of time stamping dub scripts unless absolutely necessary, but I suppose that can be chalked up to different dubbing traditions...)


I think in terms of organic growth, jobs come outwardly to you based on what you do most prominently in media and publishing and what you've done the longest.

I started off an internet writer, and author and cartoonist (aspiring novelist), but I moved up to things like screenwriting and theatre (film, filmmaking, acting, voice, radio, international co-productions)

I understand organic growth in one's career, I went through something like that as well. But what I was referring to was what the article seemed to suggest, that dubs regularly have the actors also doing other jobs in the same production, such as being the actual producer or director or handling the script in some way - and for monetary reasons? When we had "monetary reasons" at the studio we cast cheaper voice actors, used actors in multiple roles, etc. The idea of dubs regularly casting say, the sound engineer or the director just because they're already there so why not jump in and do a role... that's just completely alien to me. Also it doesn't seem like a very good idea to me since it severely limits the actor pool at casting's disposal.

(Regarding licensors having "veto powers" - this is not anime, but I used to do a lot of high profile cartoons, and for most of them the licensor (Warner, Disney, etc) was definitely involved in the casting. We were always required to send them voice samples, either for just approval, or for them to choose which actors they wanted for certain roles.)
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leafy sea dragon



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:00 pm Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
I have to think Justin knows a few things after being in the industry for 20 years. If you're going to call him and various other industry figures a bunch of liars, why not come out and give it to us straight?

I don't think anyone's said that the licensors approve casting based on similarity to the Japanese. Japanese involvement with dubs can have wildly disparate results, as seen with cases like FLCL (good) and Love Hina (...not so good). Licensor approval of dub casting may not deliver the results you desire, but that doesn't invalidate its existence.


I can say that in the majority of non-English dubs of the classic Disney shorts, Donald Duck does not have that iconally bizarre voice we English-listeners associate with him. And I don't really see Disney as that sort of company that would turn a blind eye (well, deaf ear, I guess) to something like what Donald would sound like.

I also remember the case of Toei being so unhappy with how 4Kids was handling One Piece that the rights were yanked away and given to FUNimation. No doubt Toei was watching the FUNimation dub like a hawk to make sure it wasn't going the same way as the 4Kids one.

SHD wrote:
I understand organic growth in one's career, I went through something like that as well. But what I was referring to was what the article seemed to suggest, that dubs regularly have the actors also doing other jobs in the same production, such as being the actual producer or director or handling the script in some way - and for monetary reasons? When we had "monetary reasons" at the studio we cast cheaper voice actors, used actors in multiple roles, etc. The idea of dubs regularly casting say, the sound engineer or the director just because they're already there so why not jump in and do a role... that's just completely alien to me. Also it doesn't seem like a very good idea to me since it severely limits the actor pool at casting's disposal.


The idea is that there are fewer people running the operation and hence fewer people to pay. There are voice actors who have talents, knowledge, and skills in other fields, so the logic would be "Why NOT make use of them?"
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Kadmos1



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:40 am Reply with quote
In terms of crew taking acting jobs, this applies to even movies. Heck, even during the silent film era, there were cases of a producer acting as director, writer, and even star of the movie.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:36 am Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Zalis116 wrote:
I have to think Justin knows a few things after being in the industry for 20 years. If you're going to call him and various other industry figures a bunch of liars, why not come out and give it to us straight?

I don't think anyone's said that the licensors approve casting based on similarity to the Japanese. Japanese involvement with dubs can have wildly disparate results, as seen with cases like FLCL (good) and Love Hina (...not so good). Licensor approval of dub casting may not deliver the results you desire, but that doesn't invalidate its existence.


I can say that in the majority of non-English dubs of the classic Disney shorts, Donald Duck does not have that iconally bizarre voice we English-listeners associate with him. And I don't really see Disney as that sort of company that would turn a blind eye (well, deaf ear, I guess) to something like what Donald would sound like.

I also remember the case of Toei being so unhappy with how 4Kids was handling One Piece that the rights were yanked away and given to FUNimation. No doubt Toei was watching the FUNimation dub like a hawk to make sure it wasn't going the same way as the 4Kids one.

SHD wrote:
I understand organic growth in one's career, I went through something like that as well. But what I was referring to was what the article seemed to suggest, that dubs regularly have the actors also doing other jobs in the same production, such as being the actual producer or director or handling the script in some way - and for monetary reasons? When we had "monetary reasons" at the studio we cast cheaper voice actors, used actors in multiple roles, etc. The idea of dubs regularly casting say, the sound engineer or the director just because they're already there so why not jump in and do a role... that's just completely alien to me. Also it doesn't seem like a very good idea to me since it severely limits the actor pool at casting's disposal.


The idea is that there are fewer people running the operation and hence fewer people to pay. There are voice actors who have talents, knowledge, and skills in other fields, so the logic would be "Why NOT make use of them?"

Because 1. do they really have talents? also are they truly, actually suitable for the role you're casting them or for the non-acting task you're giving them? or are you just compromising because they're " already there, anyway"? And 2. for the voice actors, this had better pay really well for them (the article suggests it doesn't, though?) otherwise I don't see why would be fine with having to work tasks other than acting on a dub when they could be doing other acting gigs.

I suppose these processes are different in each country, and in the US there are significantly fewer dubs (relatively) than in my non-English speaking country where dubbing everything is the norm. Still, it's really weird to me.

Kadmos1 wrote:
In terms of crew taking acting jobs, this applies to even movies. Heck, even during the silent film era, there were cases of a producer acting as director, writer, and even star of the movie.

Yes, I know. But I would think that production of movies and dubs have changed a little since the silent film era when budgets, procedures, tasks, techniques, equpiment, etc. were wildly different than they are now. Hell, dubbing itself has changed immensely in the past 30 years. Also, nowadays this is usually not something that is budget related (unless you're doing a super low budget independent movie).
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Just Passing Through



Joined: 04 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:49 am Reply with quote
SHD wrote:

Yes, I know. But I would think that production of movies and dubs have changed a little since the silent film era when budgets, procedures, tasks, techniques, equpiment, etc. were wildly different than they are now. Hell, dubbing itself has changed immensely in the past 30 years. Also, nowadays this is usually not something that is budget related (unless you're doing a super low budget independent movie).


You can't turn creativity off. Ever watch a Jackie Chan movie? Stars, writes, directs, produces, co-ordinates stunts, and sings the theme song. Clint Eastwood directed, starred in and produced Unforgiven and won an Oscar for it. They're hardly low budget productions. Several notable TV directors in Hollywood today got their start as actors on Star Trek who went through the director's school there.

Actors have always been expected to have more than one string to their bow, from the studio era where they learned to ride, learned song and dance and other skills that the studios demanded. Today with training less formal, creativity finds other outlets, and if you're hanging around studios for a significant portion of your working day, you're bound to pick up some skills through osmosis.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:04 am Reply with quote
Just Passing Through wrote:
SHD wrote:

Yes, I know. But I would think that production of movies and dubs have changed a little since the silent film era when budgets, procedures, tasks, techniques, equpiment, etc. were wildly different than they are now. Hell, dubbing itself has changed immensely in the past 30 years. Also, nowadays this is usually not something that is budget related (unless you're doing a super low budget independent movie).


You can't turn creativity off. Ever watch a Jackie Chan movie? Stars, writes, directs, produces, co-ordinates stunts, and sings the theme song. Clint Eastwood directed, starred in and produced Unforgiven and won an Oscar for it. They're hardly low budget productions. Several notable TV directors in Hollywood today got their start as actors on Star Trek who went through the director's school there.

Actors have always been expected to have more than one string to their bow, from the studio era where they learned to ride, learned song and dance and other skills that the studios demanded. Today with training less formal, creativity finds other outlets, and if you're hanging around studios for a significant portion of your working day, you're bound to pick up some skills through osmosis.

Yes, this is why I said Arrow
Quote:
Also, nowadays this is usually not something that is budget related (unless you're doing a super low budget independent movie).

If Jackie Chan wants to do everything important in his movie then he will do it but it's not because there's no budget for hiring people to do those jobs. Again, what I was getting from the article is that they have this practice in US dubbing because it's cost-effective. Not because that voice actor also happens to be a great director or that sound engineer is also a good voice actor, or that actor just happens to have half a day off to schedule the recording and call other actors...
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Just Passing Through



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:09 am Reply with quote
SHD wrote:
[ Again, what I was getting from the article is that they have this practice in US dubbing because it's cost-effective. Not because that voice actor also happens to be a great director or that sound engineer is also a good voice actor, or that actor just happens to have half a day off to schedule the recording and call other actors...


Cost savings may be an incentive, but I think talent will out in the end. If someone's no good at the role, they won't be doing it twice. It's the difference between getting the best person for a job, and someone who can do it to an acceptable standard.
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Greed1914



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:39 am Reply with quote
KitKat1721 wrote:
Funimation recently transitioned from contracted writers, to a full in-house, employed staff of adaptive script writers. Some fans noticed it when three sequels this year (Steins;Gate 0, Tokyo Ghoul, High School DxD) had a different script writer than before, and those writers were all cast as main characters in their respective shows.

It seems like a bit of an adjustment because many of those writers/actors haven't been super pleased about it.


I didn't know that. Although, with the volume of simuldubs going on, I suppose it was probably the more cost-effective option.
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stevek504



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:31 am Reply with quote
But, how does it work? I am sure there is a variation to how it is actually done. My questions would be, are these jobs paid at different rates (Director, VA, Script, etc.)? I would assume so.

If a person were to be a Director and voice one of the major characters are they getting paid the higher pay (say per hour) or are different rates applied for the different hours they put in each category?

I will assume if the person is just doing voice work, but say voicing two major characters (say twins) they are just being paid by the hour and are lucky that they potentially have 2x the pay of another actor that is just doing one character.
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