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NEWS: Star Wars: Resistance Animated Series' Trailer Reveals October 7 Premiere


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Stuart Smith



Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 1298
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:28 pm Reply with quote
DamianSalazar wrote:
I don't know why anime fans have an aversion to CGI (or other styles like stop-motion, and rotoscoping), I think it's stupid.


I think the heart of the issue is unlike western cartoon fans, anime fans haven't been forced to accept them. There was a time in the 2000s when CG and other methods were on the rise in the American industry and people were just as averse to them. There was a huge push to support Winnie the Pooh and Princess and the Frog back in the day because they were going to be the last traditionally animated movies among the quickly becoming 3DCGI industry standard. These days, it would be extremely pointless to complain about it, either people accept it and adapt, or they lost interest and moved to another hobby, perhaps anime. Those who do complain now are generally dismissed as whiners, and mocked by industry folk, as people saw with Teen Titans Go, Thundercats Roar and She-Ra.

I'd say it's similar to how people don't expect 1:1 adaptions of comics in the west because we've never gotten proper adaptions of comics, but in Japan it's extremely common to follow the manga in both art an story, and any deviation in an adaption is looked down upon. Different fanbases are used to how things are done in their medium. And anime fans have yet to be put in a position where everything is either CGI or you don't watch anime anymore.

-Stuart Smith
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FlareKnight



Joined: 17 Apr 2008
Posts: 152
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:08 pm Reply with quote
Stuart Smith wrote:
DamianSalazar wrote:
I don't know why anime fans have an aversion to CGI (or other styles like stop-motion, and rotoscoping), I think it's stupid.


I think the heart of the issue is unlike western cartoon fans, anime fans haven't been forced to accept them. There was a time in the 2000s when CG and other methods were on the rise in the American industry and people were just as averse to them. There was a huge push to support Winnie the Pooh and Princess and the Frog back in the day because they were going to be the last traditionally animated movies among the quickly becoming 3DCGI industry standard. These days, it would be extremely pointless to complain about it, either people accept it and adapt, or they lost interest and moved to another hobby, perhaps anime. Those who do complain now are generally dismissed as whiners, and mocked by industry folk, as people saw with Teen Titans Go, Thundercats Roar and She-Ra.

I'd say it's similar to how people don't expect 1:1 adaptions of comics in the west because we've never gotten proper adaptions of comics, but in Japan it's extremely common to follow the manga in both art an story, and any deviation in an adaption is looked down upon. Different fanbases are used to how things are done in their medium. And anime fans have yet to be put in a position where everything is either CGI or you don't watch anime anymore.

-Stuart Smith

I kind of want to give this a standing ovation. Basically just nailing the issue at least from my point of view. There's nothing unique to some fans of anime not being a fan of CGI shows. I very much went down the road of "I don't love how this looks so I'm just not going to watch the new stuff anymore" with a lot of cartoons.

Comes down to personal preference. Can't like or get behind a style of animation that I don't like. At the end of the day it's entertainment. No point forcing yourself to watch something you aren't going to enjoy.
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TheAnimeRevolutionizer



Joined: 03 Nov 2017
Posts: 319
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:51 pm Reply with quote
I think the major issue is the matter that Japan does have an amazing CGI and 3D workforce. The problem is that the lot of them are in the video game industry. Honestly, if anyone in Japan wants some pointers on how to make proper CGI, or at least get the movements and bitframes right, they need to watch Galerians: Rion or play Final Fantasy or any of the 3D games Japan has put out in years past. If they want anime cel shaded visuals, they should try Gungrave, Guilty Gear Xrd, and Jet Set Radio for a try, that's for sure.

Stuart Smith wrote:
DamianSalazar wrote:
I don't know why anime fans have an aversion to CGI (or other styles like stop-motion, and rotoscoping), I think it's stupid.


I think the heart of the issue is unlike western cartoon fans, anime fans haven't been forced to accept them. There was a time in the 2000s when CG and other methods were on the rise in the American industry and people were just as averse to them. There was a huge push to support Winnie the Pooh and Princess and the Frog back in the day because they were going to be the last traditionally animated movies among the quickly becoming 3DCGI industry standard. These days, it would be extremely pointless to complain about it, either people accept it and adapt, or they lost interest and moved to another hobby, perhaps anime. Those who do complain now are generally dismissed as whiners, and mocked by industry folk, as people saw with Teen Titans Go, Thundercats Roar and She-Ra.

I'd say it's similar to how people don't expect 1:1 adaptions of comics in the west because we've never gotten proper adaptions of comics, but in Japan it's extremely common to follow the manga in both art an story, and any deviation in an adaption is looked down upon. Different fanbases are used to how things are done in their medium. And anime fans have yet to be put in a position where everything is either CGI or you don't watch anime anymore.

-Stuart Smith


Some notes from me too on anime purism. It also doesn't help that around the rise of the 2000s, western animation was further pushed into a hole because of the rise of the paradox of TV series movies put onto the silver screen and a lot of inquiry when it came to their quality. You can watch RebelTaxi for that subject, whom I highly respect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED0ySD51Z2U

Neither did the fact that CGI also followed what western animation the generation before. Outside of Titan A.E., which bombed at the theaters, animation with the level of maturity that anime presented that it could reach for without the moral morality groups and Grambo swarming them with politio religious self righteous weight reinforced with hands in the senator's pockets was practically non existent. Sure, there was Daria and Aeon Flux, but AF (along with that live action movie that did not help whatsoever) and Daria were just on their way out. Even Batman Beyond and Static Shock were coming to simmer down. While I love Pixar, they were admittedly becoming the next new Disney Renaissance, and along the way came Shrek, which just cemented everything from that point on. Plus, even when Halo came out, the Japanese video game craze was pretty much at its peak at this time, as where the western animation fan community in the US didn't have the syncretic dynamic the anime fandom had before getting in tune with the Japanese market. Final Fantasy VII and IX back in these days were as lauded as Tenchi Muyo and Slayers in this time by the fandom, and it all came back to the main thing that tied them together: an anime styled theme and asethetic with the meat of the topic of what it presented.

I mean, I love Galerians: Rion and the latest incarnations of Guilty Gear, and I am a Japanese video game fan first and formost, but at the same time, the anime aspect is what draws me into such games in the first place. Nowadays, that market isn't me- A lot of things have changed, and these days the purism has gone a bit more full scale because the fandom is now just as much on the ball on the Japanese market as the domestic fandom, and even though video games are just as much of a hand in hand hobby with anime, that kind of spirit of enjoying anime whatever it is has now been split with a sense of discernment. Even in Japan, I recall that there's a kind of rivalry of anime producers versus video game developers due to their philosophies and life perspectives.

Where I am going with this, the point is that while in Japan they're getting on the ball with CGI for anime, even though here in the States animation is regarded by the mainstream as both 3D and hand drawn, that's how the anime fandom kinda has its prejudice on CGI. Anime at the time and still to this day has an undergroundness that more youthful fans love and bask in, that goes against the "ignorant masses" because "they just don't know what is authentic and real"; even though I am still in that undergroundness and enjoy it, I've come to grow wider in my experiences and want to see where anime has pervaded and influenced, and to know the ups and downs. Other fans, especially younger fans... not so much. Much like the current fandom of rock n roll, there is a large gatekeeping mindset and paradox that exists, and it also doesn't help that the thought of anime being strictly adherent to specifics reinforces that. Anime as I've discovered is more than just comics and animation, or themes and styles, it's a spirit of identifying, exemplifying, and seeing things that relates to aspects of our humanity. Yet in the industry even, CGI struggles because of that divide even. I'm not keen or too interested on Star Wars Resistance either, but if you wanted a reason why the anime CGI side of things aren't so hot, there you go.

(also damien salazar don't lump people into stereotypes that really infuriates me >:V)
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Mertal



Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Posts: 88
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:46 am Reply with quote
24k dislikes and rising.. Crap confirmed.
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Scion Drake



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
Posts: 861
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:08 am Reply with quote
Just gonna say both The Clone Wars & Rebels similarly received controversy & negative reactions when they came out & look what happened.

They both turned out to be good shows & after improving Clone Wars became one of the greatest TV shows ever, not just for Star Wars but in general & Rebels turned into an excellent viewing experience in its own right with plenty of its own fantastic moments.

Again just saying there's kinda a cycle going on where the shows trailer comes out, everyone has a knee-jerk reaction that its automatically terrible, but it turns out its pretty decent in the end.

Hell Ashoka Tano was widely disliked when she came out but after a lot of character development now she's generally well-received & people want more of her in stuff like starring in her own show with Sabine from Rebels.

So who knows lets have some hope here.

And this is all ignoring that the Star Wars fandom is notorious for being extremely toxic even compared to normal fandom toxicity.
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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
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Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:27 am Reply with quote
Of the 4 new Star Wars in the last nearly 3 years, the only one I have seen was "Solo". To me, it doesn't feel like a Star Wars unless a 20th Century Fox logo is at the start of the film.
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Chester McCool



Joined: 06 Jan 2016
Posts: 322
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:57 am Reply with quote
Scion Drake wrote:
Just gonna say both The Clone Wars & Rebels similarly received controversy & negative reactions when they came out & look what happened.

They both turned out to be good shows & after improving Clone Wars became one of the greatest TV shows ever, not just for Star Wars but in general & Rebels turned into an excellent viewing experience in its own right with plenty of its own fantastic moments.

Again just saying there's kinda a cycle going on where the shows trailer comes out, everyone has a knee-jerk reaction that its automatically terrible, but it turns out its pretty decent in the end.

Hell Ashoka Tano was widely disliked when she came out but after a lot of character development now she's generally well-received & people want more of her in stuff like starring in her own show with Sabine from Rebels.


I'm wary of general fanbase comments like this. "Who" wants more of those characters, exactly? The same blog sites that wanted the unsold Rey figures which are still in the clearance section of all the shut-down Toys R Us stores?

And while I've heard people defend Clone Wars, I can't say any of the people I know and trust defend or had any interest in Rebels. The fact they're bringing back Clone Wars and now trying out this new series instead says a lot to me. Fan reception to Clone Wars' return trailer seems overwhelmingly positive compared to this trailer.
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povsuduvolosy



Joined: 23 May 2012
Posts: 11
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:04 am Reply with quote
Whatever foxnews and cartoonnetwork fanboys want or don't want this show looks suck. 3d in anime looks suck in general. You can't see it in western animation because itself western cartoons are more crappy and too much cartoonised (less sexy as well and as result less realistic).
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DamianSalazar



Joined: 25 Jul 2017
Posts: 113
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:04 am Reply with quote
povsuduvolosy wrote:
Whatever foxnews and cartoonnetwork fanboys want or don't want this show looks suck. 3d in anime looks suck in general. You can't see it in western animation because itself western cartoons are more crappy and too much cartoonised (less sexy as well and as result less realistic).


Cartoons aren't supposed to be sexy (especially since this is a kids cartoon) or realistic. The are supposed to follow the 12 principles of animation, especially the last rule (appeal).
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povsuduvolosy



Joined: 23 May 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:27 pm Reply with quote
Glad world is not limited with rural bourgeous, otherwise there never was anime as it is.
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Galap
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:30 pm Reply with quote
Yeah I got to sa that the reason that me and other anime fans get so uppity about the CG is that like StuartSmith said, I completely lost interest in western animation when it all became CG. It's a different medium that drawn animation, and I'm not interested in it. It bothers me when people think that they are functional replacements of each other, because they very much are not. The rise of CG in anime gets to me because I see that it's pretty likely that there will come a time where it's all CG. And at that time anime will be dead to me because I don't care about CG animation.

Last edited by Galap on Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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povsuduvolosy



Joined: 23 May 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:32 pm Reply with quote
It looks like an android game. Why can't they do it at least as in starship troopers lately, or choose a proper studio, sunrise, trigger dunno, arms...
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 4622
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:12 pm Reply with quote
Silver Kirin wrote:

Also, I wish they wouldn't explain the backstory of the First Order, Snoke and the Resistance in this show. The new trilogy didn't explain a lot, but if viewers have to watch a show to understand what happened in a movie, that's not good storytelling.


If you create a universe or in this case build a new story on top of an existing universe where a conflict or enemy is introduced out of the blue with no explanation as to where they came from or what their motivations are.

That's not good storytelling either. Yes everything doesn't need to be explained to a reader or watcher but at the same time everything doesn't need to be vague or open to interpretation either.

Chester McCool wrote:


And while I've heard people defend Clone Wars, I can't say any of the people I know and trust defend or had any interest in Rebels. The fact they're bringing back Clone Wars and now trying out this new series instead says a lot to me. Fan reception to Clone Wars' return trailer seems overwhelmingly positive compared to this trailer.


As was said the 2nd Clone Wars series was not well liked when it first started out but overtime many of it's haters and critics came around and we're among the chrous stomping their feet and writing petitions and the like when the show got canceled sometime following Disney's acquisition of the Star Wars IP.


Last edited by BadNewsBlues on Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mr. sickVisionz



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2110
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:24 pm Reply with quote
The animation will enrage some but probably not bother most.

I didn't like the lack of light sabers and force powers. My introduction to Star Wars was through the Phantom Menace. When I think Phantom Menace without light sabers I think of a movie minus its only redeeming aspect. An entire animated series minus its only rede...
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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:06 pm Reply with quote
DamianSalazar wrote:
I don't know why anime fans have an aversion to CGI (or other styles like stop-motion, and rotoscoping), I think it's stupid.


It's not CGI that people have a problem with.

It's that with CGI we have higher expectations in terms of quality, but 80% of the time we get something farmed out. And looks indicative of a cheaper product, which it is, of course because CGI was built to be precisely that, though when used well, can be very impressive.

Worst case is you get something like the recent BERSERK.

Middling Quality tends to be the norm - Knights of Sidonia - and most productions fall within this level.

Then there are the best case scenarios - GANTZ:0.

Also it's usually hit or miss when a blend of 2D and 3D is utilized. Some manage to mesh well, but in others its a noticeable discrepancy.

It comes down to studio and budget of course. Not every feature will be at the level of Square Enix Visual Works
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