Forum

A weekly focus piece on black cosplayers is an interesting idea. I was really impressed with the guy last week who not only put a lot into his costume but had some nice staged shots (especially the Black Panther cosplay with the mountain background). However, 2 weeks of this and not a single picture of an anime/manga cosplay?

Yeah, I realize right there is a stated purpose of the for these pieces which does include sources aside from anime and manga, but this is still an anime website first right? I guess I'm alone in thinking that the cosplay should tend to favor anime/manga a bit even if it doesn't exclude general comic/video game cosplay?

Lord Oink wrote:

RenRen94 wrote:

Everybody, regardless of gender, ethnicity, physical build, etc should be able to cosplay whoever they want to cosplay

It's really unclear how the rules are when it comes to this kind of stuff.
[...]

That's mostly because a lot of different people have a lot of different opinions about the topic, and people tend to over-generalize what others say.
For every point you can make, you will have people that either agree or disagree with it, and the same goes for any other point, even if they contradict themselves (the points, not the individual people). So, if one wanted to hear that "everything is forbidden", one could make that happen, same goes for the opposite, because someone will have made the point. I don't think every single opinion is equally right, though.

I looked at this for a while from different angles myself, and what seems to be the 2 most reasonable rules of thumb (for me) are the following:

- It's fine to dress up as any specific character, but it's not fine to dress up as "a race / an ethnicity" in general.

Someone mentioned Goku un-mistakenly wearing Asian clothes, but cosplaying as Goku is still undeniably cosplaying as Goku first. And I also don't really buy the "Goku is an Alien" angle here. All the other characters accepted him as one of them based on his looks; the only thing that made him stick out was that tail.

- You should not temper with your skin color to achieve a better match of the character, unless the character has an un-human skin color to begin with.

Those things are always vague, and depend on the context. For example, I'm a goth, and have put on literally white makeup in the past to achieve the look, which is very obviously not an actual human skin tone, so it's go.
Using the same white makeup to look specifically like a geisha on the other hand would not be fine in my book, because that's again copying something with cultural meaning. Granted, the rest of the 2 outfits would be nothing alike.

It's ... complicated, but not to the point where cosplay isn't doable.

----

The cosplay here looks really cute. The choker is a bit loose, but I guess wearing them snug get's uncomfortable real fast.

So, all people want to talk about is the racial issue, and not the fact that, out of the millions of cosplayers on the internet, a handful will get this massive spotlight...? (Randomly, apparently, because caring about quality is unfair to "skill and experience levels"?)

You say it's "open to all fandoms", but we know the cosplayers who get chosen will be the ones who do popular characters (or the designated "omg it's so underrated" thing of the moment). Western anime journalism really concentrates the spotlight on certain types of works (namely action genres, with a smaller, secondary spotlight on "art film" type anime), while other fans and fandoms are pushed aside.

There will probably be more cosplayers of American works than cosplayers of non-fighting Japanese works. (Non-fighting does not mean non-fantasy). If there isn't, then ANN will be doing a greater service to anime than Americans have done at all in the past.

(...American fandom might be more ethnically diverse than Japanese fandom (obviously), but Japanese anime fandom is a lot more intellectually diverse. On the surface, you think that Americans who like anime like it because they realize there's so much more unique thought in that niche than in the rest of the world's art and media... but no, they just think Naruto punching someone looks cooler than Superman punching someone. Those of us who don't want to see anyone punching anyone are ostracized from the so-called "community" in America.)

On the topic of race, though, I'm curious - what do you think of Japanese cosplayers using dark-skin makeup? Does it make a difference if the character is Japanese (e.g. Amuro or Heiji from Detective Conan, or Ookurikara from Touken Ranbu)? What about Villetta or Bismarck from Code Geass (who are supposed to be racist Britannians)? Just wondering, because I see this a lot, because it's normal in Japan...

Chester McCool wrote:

I'd even throw in the notion that a lot of popular female characters wear Japanese school uniforms and tend to be some of the most common cosplay outfits around.

Funny to say this when Japanese school uniforms aren't really Japanese in origin at all, other than gakuran for the boys (which is still somewhat Western-styled) or something really historical, like Meiji-era. Japan is the real – I say this mostly jokingly – "appropriator" here.

#884745 wrote:

You say it's "open to all fandoms", but we know the cosplayers who get chosen will be the ones who do popular characters (or the designated "omg it's so underrated" thing of the moment). Western anime journalism really concentrates the spotlight on certain types of works (namely action genres, with a smaller, secondary spotlight on "art film" type anime), while other fans and fandoms are pushed aside.

Nice assumptions there. Maybe you should save the pitchfork rabble routine and wait and see. Instead of ya know getting all up in arms after the first few weeks.

#884745 wrote:

So, all people want to talk about is the racial issue, and not the fact that, out of the millions of cosplayers on the internet, a handful will get this massive spotlight...? (Randomly, apparently, because caring about quality is unfair to "skill and experience levels"?)

You say it's "open to all fandoms", but we know the cosplayers who get chosen will be the ones who do popular characters (or the designated "omg it's so underrated" thing of the moment). Western anime journalism really concentrates the spotlight on certain types of works (namely action genres, with a smaller, secondary spotlight on "art film" type anime), while other fans and fandoms are pushed aside.

There will probably be more cosplayers of American works than cosplayers of non-fighting Japanese works. (Non-fighting does not mean non-fantasy). If there isn't, then ANN will be doing a greater service to anime than Americans have done at all in the past.

(...American fandom might be more ethnically diverse than Japanese fandom (obviously), but Japanese anime fandom is a lot more intellectually diverse. On the surface, you think that Americans who like anime like it because they realize there's so much more unique thought in that niche than in the rest of the world's art and media... but no, they just think Naruto punching someone looks cooler than Superman punching someone. Those of us who don't want to see anyone punching anyone are ostracized from the so-called "community" in America.)

On the topic of race, though, I'm curious - what do you think of Japanese cosplayers using dark-skin makeup? Does it make a difference if the character is Japanese (e.g. Amuro or Heiji from Detective Conan, or Ookurikara from Touken Ranbu)? What about Villetta or Bismarck from Code Geass (who are supposed to be racist Britannians)? Just wondering, because I see this a lot, because it's normal in Japan...

Ostracized for not liking popular battle manga? That’s new. If anything, you’re more embraced in the anime community when you’ve ventured outside of the mainstream realm of anime.

Dark-skin makeup to me is unacceptable. You can still do a wonderful job at cosplaying for a particular character without having to dramatically alter your skin tone. The costume is really the most essential part to any cosplay. It’s done a lot in Japan because they don’t see it as an issue, but I personally feel it’s something that needs to be more illuminated and talked about in Japanese culture.

#884745 wrote:

On the topic of race, though, I'm curious - what do you think of Japanese cosplayers using dark-skin makeup? Does it make a difference if the character is Japanese (e.g. Amuro or Heiji from Detective Conan, or Ookurikara from Touken Ranbu)? What about Villetta or Bismarck from Code Geass (who are supposed to be racist Britannians)? Just wondering, because I see this a lot, because it's normal in Japan...

I don't see it as any different than people using tanning products. Some Japanese people just tan that way. It's why skin protection and skin whiting products are so popular in Japan so they can prevent and counteract that, since lighter skin is considered more beautiful there. It's why athletic characters in anime are colored with darker skin since it signifies the large amounts of time they spend outdoors. For example, from Pocket Monsters we have both Shizui and Kaki. In Shizui's case, it should be pretty obvious since you can see his untanned skin on the cusp of his waist and the tops of his feet. There's also local stereotypes like Osakans being darker skinned than other Japanese, which is the one Heiji Hattori falls under, as well as Okinawans, which is what Fuyou from Pocket Monsters is based on.

Unfortunately, it's a fairly common misconception among westerners to treat any dark skinned anime character as being black. Which leads to a lot of debates and criticisms from people who aren't familiar with the topic, and people insisting an anime character is black when it's fairly obvious they are not. Then again, it's also the same reason many westerners mistake anime characters for being white as well, unaware that there is a very specific way Japanese artists generally draw Caucasian and African based characters differently from Japanese ones.

So no, I personally don't find any problem with Japanese people doing that since it's pretty clear to anyone with knowledge on the subject that what they're doing with makeup isn't supposed to be blackface.

-Stuart Smith

I think she looks amazing!

As for the cultural appropriation angle, I think that is, quite frankly, a load of rubbish. Clearly it is offensive if someone plays on a stereotype for the purposes of insult or offense, but I fail to see how most "cultural appropriation" is anything to complain about. How far do we want to take it? Is Americans eating Pizza "cultural appropriation" because the dish wasn't invented there? What about a European or Asian cooking with tomatoes? After all, tomatoes came from the new world. Look carefully and just about anything done by anybody could be called "cultural appropriation". Just about every modern culture on earth is built upon things copied from others, introduced by invaders/conquerors, spread by missionaries, etc, etc. Is it cultural appropriation for anyone other than the Chinese to set off fireworks? It just gets crazy.

In my opinion the test is very simple: If someone's actions are designed to make fun of, cheapen, or insult a particular group then we are right to criticize that behavior. But otherwise I don't see a problem.

#884745 wrote:

You say it's "open to all fandoms", but we know the cosplayers who get chosen will be the ones who do popular characters (or the designated "omg it's so underrated" thing of the moment). Western anime journalism really concentrates the spotlight on certain types of works (namely action genres, with a smaller, secondary spotlight on "art film" type anime), while other fans and fandoms are pushed aside.

Yeah, you could have just asked me how cosplayers were picked for this instead the weird assumptions you're making here, if that's what you wanted to know. There weren't any requirements from which series/games/manga their photos had to be from.

#884745 wrote:

(...American fandom might be more ethnically diverse than Japanese fandom (obviously), but Japanese anime fandom is a lot more intellectually diverse.

I'd say America lacks intellectual diversity within their main stream media and hollywood, arguably also education (which ripples back to hollywood perhaps). However I'd also say that social media has picked up the slack, where some of the best entertainers from America comes in the form of youtubers or streamers. Thus the fandom show talents for comedy and meme making like no generation previously, so I wouldn't sell yourself short overall in regards to intellectual diversity either. Of course, when it comes to the anime fandom we're seeing that Silicone Valley is censoring and demonitizating your streamers, which of course has made them self-censor, which again makes them less entertaining and interesting (because they no longer come off as natural as before). This is perhaps especially true for anime fandom personalities, as our hobbies are already on the fringes as it's in the state of breaking through to the main stream. In other words not big enough to get majority protection, but big enough to get noticed by the "censors". It's a real problem for sure, but I'd say it's not because there's no intellectual diversity within the fandom, but that parts of it perhaps get suppressed by algorithms not able to handle weebspeak.

It's a big dilemma for sure. I don't think series like Games of Thrones, or games like The Witcher can be made inside the US for another decade until that whole things blows over, but I also think it's only a matter of time before it blows over as those series are the most popular ones around (meaning that once the censors run out of money, the ones who want to profit will begin to ignore them completely).

I gotta admit. This Izzy girl isn't a bad cosplayer. I hope no one's offended by this,but I think she's really pretty,especially in her Kasumi outfit. Oh yes,she pulls it off really well. I've got a feeling she's going to go far as a cosplayer. She certainly has the looks for it,trust me on that.

S0crates wrote:

I'd say America lacks intellectual diversity within their main stream media and hollywood,

Agreed 100%. The problem as I see it is that most producers--be it hollywood or for TV--tend to play it safe. They aren't willing to take chances on anything outside the tried-and-true formula. They go for formulaic, lowest-common-denominator titles and that's that. Thankfully, we are seeing at least some change to that model coming from non-hollywood companies like Netflix, HBO, etc. And sure, a lot of anime tends to follow formulas too: Popular shows get knocked off--sometimes well, sometimes not so well. I.e. Evangelion and Gasaraki, Madoka Magica and Yuki Yuna. And of course there are general trends like the proliferation of "Maid" themed anime in the early 2000s, today's blitz of Isekai shows, etc. But even within all that Anime tends to break the formulaic mold. It's often not clear who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are--assuming that those labels even apply--while that is something that hollywood very rarely does. Anime often does not hesitate to kill off major characters...and often times there is no happy ending at all...also something that's fairly rare in Hollywood.

Quote:

arguably also education (which ripples back to hollywood perhaps).

I think the US education system has plenty of problems, but I don't think "diversity" is one of them. In fact, I think diversity in education is more a problem than the lack thereof. Most of my family is from Europe and I have spent a lot of time there, as well as in the US which is where I graduated. In England, for example, when you study in high school you choose which O-level exams you take. You don't have to pass all of them to graduate, you simply pick which one(s) you want. In the US you must pass every subject to graduate, including a lot of one-offs beyond the main academic subjects. In college it is worse. I studied Mechanical Engineering, for example: most of my academic hassles (especially with scheduling) had nothing to do with the subject I was getting my degree in, rather they were completely unrelated topics like state history, psychology, etc. I am a believer in well-rounded education but I think the US system takes it far enough to suffer as a result. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Quote:

However I'd also say that social media has picked up the slack, where some of the best entertainers from America comes in the form of youtubers or streamers. Thus the fandom show talents for comedy and meme making like no generation previously, so I wouldn't sell yourself short overall in regards to intellectual diversity either.

"Intellectual diversity" is not the phrase that comes to my mind when you talk about streamers, YT comedy, and memes. "Juvenile silliness" is more appropriate, though I suppose it does qualify in the pedantic sense of the word.

Quote:

Of course, when it comes to the anime fandom we're seeing that Silicone Valley is censoring and demonitizating your streamers, which of course has made them self-censor, which again makes them less entertaining and interesting (because they no longer come off as natural as before). This is perhaps especially true for anime fandom personalities, as our hobbies are already on the fringes as it's in the state of breaking through to the main stream. In other words not big enough to get majority protection, but big enough to get noticed by the "censors". It's a real problem for sure, but I'd say it's not because there's no intellectual diversity within the fandom, but that parts of it perhaps get suppressed by algorithms not able to handle weebspeak.

That is a huge problem, and it is far from exclusive to anime. It applies to nearly anything which could be considered even slightly "fringe": paintball, airsoft, action video gaming, hunting, shooting, fishing, etc. For example, a history-themed YT channel I often watch had an account strike issued & was demonetized for supposedly "demonstrating how to make a weapon". What was the video in question? A discussion of how the tiny stone knife found on a European mummy may have been made, followed by a demonstration of how a stone age craftsman might make an arrowhead or a small blade from a piece of flint. I've seen it happen to a video of someone demonstrating how to catch, clean, and cook fish. I've even seen it happen to a professional licensed arborist discussing the cutting down of a diseased tree which presented a hazard because it was growing over the roof of a church building! Someone had complained that it was "destroying nature". I have no doubt that primitive (or perhaps malicious) algorithms are part of the problem. But it's also people making complaints too. And that is worrysome because people love to be divisive about issues while failing to realize that fundamentally it all boils down to freedom in all cases. The same principles that protect our rights to watch potentially "questionable" animated programs are those which protect other's rights to watch full-contact sports or violent and sex-filled Hollywood/Netflix/HBO/etc programs, and so on. It is frustrating to see, for example, people champion LGBTQ rights and (rightfully) complain about the discrimination that their group experiences, while simultaneously discriminating against others when they denounce people who play violent video games. (Please note that I'm not trying to state that LGBTQ activists are necessarily anti-gamer, this was just a hypothetical example and could just as easily be reversed). The old saying that "when you point your finger there are three more pointed back at you" is very much true, and I think people are slowly starting to realize that hey, if I keep complaining about things that I don't like the exact same thing can happen to me too.

Forum - View topic
Weekly Cosplay - Izzy Saeko's Kasumi from Dead or Alive Kicks Ass

Yuri!!! on Ice: Ice Adolescence Film Canceled

At 25:00 in Akasaka BL Drama Cast Discuss Kiss Scene, Personal Hobbies at Live Event

This Week in Anime - Are This Season's Isekai Anime Any Good?

The Spring 2024 Anime Preview Guide

Fans Say Farewell to Yokohama's Life-Size Moving Gundam

This Week in Anime - What Do You Do When Your Fav Anime Isn't Simulcast?

Ragna Crimson Manga Volume 11 Review

	Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback	All times are GMT - 5 Hours Goto page Previous 1, 2
Page 2 of 2

Forum - View topicWeekly Cosplay - Izzy Saeko's Kasumi from Dead or Alive Kicks Ass

Forum

Forum - View topic
Weekly Cosplay - Izzy Saeko's Kasumi from Dead or Alive Kicks Ass