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NEWS: Utena Director Kunihiko Ikuhara's Sarazanmai Anime Unveils 2nd 'Linked' Promo


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#HayamiLover



Joined: 22 Jul 2018
Posts: 796
Location: Eastern Europe
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:55 pm Reply with quote
@Samiamiam Well, in that case, it seems like it really will be a BL. But I am still surprised at the attempt to create mystery.

However, it would be rather strange to release a spin-off in a BL magazine if the show itself will be heterosexual. Like if Oregairu had a Yuri Hime's spin-off about Yukinon and Yui, lol.
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Samiamiam



Joined: 31 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:00 pm Reply with quote
#HayamiLover wrote:
@Samiamiam Well, in that case, it seems like it really will be a BL. But I am still surprised at the attempt to create mystery.


I'm not sure how similar the show will be to the manga since neither of the boys in the PVs are in the manga and the manga seems to be a prequel about two men raising a baby (who seems to appear older in the background on a TV in the PV)

But yeah the fact that its an Ikuhara show with many boys and a tie in manga published in a BL magazine makes people think it will be BLish.
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#HayamiLover



Joined: 22 Jul 2018
Posts: 796
Location: Eastern Europe
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:08 pm Reply with quote
Samiamiam wrote:
#HayamiLover wrote:
@Samiamiam Well, in that case, it seems like it really will be a BL. But I am still surprised at the attempt to create mystery.


I'm not sure how similar the show will be to the manga since neither of the boys in the PVs are in the manga and the manga seems to be a prequel about two men raising a baby (who seems to appear older in the background on a TV in the PV)

But yeah the fact that its an Ikuhara show with many boys and a tie in manga published in a BL magazine makes people think it will be BLish.


Well, it doesn’t make much difference, at least I’m wondering what the new Ikuhara show will be like. Moreover, MAPPA has a fairly good reputation.
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1dbad



Joined: 12 Jul 2015
Posts: 709
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:21 am Reply with quote
I'm glad Ikuhara's trying something different this time around. And if this is Ikuhara's take on the BL genre, I'm really excited to see what he does with it. Even if his works can be a bit heavy on fanservice, he's always good about having the substance to back it up.

wolf10 wrote:
Forget fujo friendly, I'm hoping for something gay male friendly.

Same. Ikuhara's done well at creating yuri works that resonate with lesbian/bi female viewers, so I have faith he could create a BL that resonates with gay male/bi viewers.
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#HayamiLover



Joined: 22 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:52 am Reply with quote
1dbad wrote:
Same. Ikuhara's done well at creating yuri works that resonate with lesbian/bi female viewers, so I have faith he could create a BL that resonates with gay male/bi viewers.


I very much doubt that BL (if it really will be it) will be created for qeer males, and not for a heterosexual female audience. Not even because people in the West take Japanese LGBT content too seriously, but because it is much easier to sell a product for fujo than qeer media for qeer people.

The fact that the “incredibly progressive” YIC's fandom is almost entirely made up of women is good proof of that. However, if, similarly to Utena, he will write it as an attractive enough BL for a shonen \ seinen audience, then this will indeed be a fairly good and important work.
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Ouran High School Dropout



Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Posts: 440
Location: Somewhere in Massachusetts, USA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:59 am Reply with quote
I'm less interested in the BL angle as I am in the Ikuhara Mind Screw Quotient™ this show's gonna have... Cool
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1dbad



Joined: 12 Jul 2015
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Location: Texas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:37 am Reply with quote
#HayamiLover wrote:
I very much doubt that BL (if it really will be it) will be created for qeer males, and not for a heterosexual female audience. Not even because people in the West take Japanese LGBT content too seriously, but because it is much easier to sell a product for fujo than qeer media for qeer people.

I never said it wouldn't be aimed at fujo. Just that with Ikuhara at the helm, I'm confident it'll have enough substance to appeal to more than just fujo fans. If anything, I think Yuri on Ice shows you can appeal to both demographics simultaneously.
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Usagi-kun



Joined: 03 Jul 2013
Posts: 877
Location: Nashville, TN
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:03 pm Reply with quote
I honestly don't care whether the revealed leads are in a same-sex relationship. KuniIku stories all to contain a central romantic theme, but let's wait until we have a little more information. One thing you can say about the director is that he is never predictable.
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Super_M



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 201
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:24 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
There's been a lot of at least arguably gender neutral series lately.


You mean like MHA, Tokyo Ghoul. Yes that series have cross appeal but they are in shonen and seinen magazine and main target audience are still guys and majority fans are propably guys.

Quote:
Even if we forget that the industry is more tolerant of female homosexuality than of male's, as the market is mainly focused on straight men, there have been relatively few shoujo anime lately. Therefore, first in the queue are more "normal" works.


Yep and It's not only anime. Shonen and Seinen manga are more popular than Shoujo and Josei manga. Girls even prefer male targeted magazine becouse shoujo/josei lack intresting titles. Thers no shoujo/josei magazine at level shonen jump, shonen magazine, shonen sunday, young jump. Light Novel are mostly harem isekai and that strange becouse women overall read more fiction than men. Galge are more popular than otome. Games have more otaku pandering than fujo/otome pandering. Well overal otaku/geek/nerd media have more guys pandering. Well propably guys give company more cash even if sometimes ago ANN publish this article. animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2018-05-10/money-is-a-girl-best-friend-otaku-women-are-a-major-fandom-financial-force/.131368

Quote:
because it is much easier to sell a product for fujo than qeer media for qeer people.

Thers more straight people intrested in gay content than qeer people intrested in gay content. Utena was more popular with men than women at least in NHK poll and correct me if i'm wrong but Utena target audience was girls.( I don't watched Utena show).
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ice_tea



Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Posts: 74
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:05 pm Reply with quote
I am glad that Uchiyama and Murase will be cast together again. Smile
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#HayamiLover



Joined: 22 Jul 2018
Posts: 796
Location: Eastern Europe
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:37 am Reply with quote
1dbad wrote:
I never said it wouldn't be aimed at fujo. Just that with Ikuhara at the helm, I'm confident it'll have enough substance to appeal to more than just fujo fans. If anything, I think Yuri on Ice shows you can appeal to both demographics simultaneously.


I don't think that YIC has ever applied to both demographics. Yes, this is a great anime shoujo, but excuse me, its popularity among qeer audience was caused solely by the Western media, which for some reason decided that the gay couple is something unique to mainstream anime. In the end, even now its audience consists predominantly of heterosexual girls.

Super_M wrote:
Thers more straight people intrested in gay content than qeer people intrested in gay content. Utena was more popular with men than women at least in NHK poll and correct me if i'm wrong but Utena target audience was girls.( I don't watched Utena show).


This is quite controversial. I can’t call myself an extremely sociable fan, but I have only met exclusively fangirls of this series, and read articles about it predominantly on female-focused resourses. I know that there are enough shoujo series that attract males because of qeer or qeer bait content, but Utena is too specific work for this.

Super_M wrote:
Yep and It's not only anime. Shonen and Seinen manga are more popular than Shoujo and Josei manga. Girls even prefer male targeted magazine becouse shoujo/josei lack intresting titles. Thers no shoujo/josei magazine at level shonen jump, shonen magazine, shonen sunday, young jump. Light Novel are mostly harem isekai and that strange becouse women overall read more fiction than men. Galge are more popular than otome. Games have more otaku pandering than fujo/otome pandering. Well overal otaku/geek/nerd media have more guys pandering. Well propably guys give company more cash even if sometimes ago ANN publish this article. animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2018-05-10/money-is-a-girl-best-friend-otaku-women-are-a-major-fandom-financial-force/.131368


Well, I could be mistaken, but I always had the impression that the industry always considers men as the main consumers, and women only as an “additional market”. Up to the fact that recently more and more female authors go to shonen and seinen magazines if they want to create work that will be of interest to any people regardless of gender.

And it looks especially unfair against the background of the fact that modern shoujo anime is only an adaptation of otome games with rare exceptions.
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CardamonPastel



Joined: 01 Oct 2016
Posts: 107
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:24 am Reply with quote
Super_M wrote:
Both boys have nice design. There will probably one more male because in previous teaser had three male bathroom symbol. I wonder how much this anime will be fujo friendly. (manga is in BL magazine) Also I'm curious if this anime will have prominent female character. I saw some cgdct/yuri fans that are upset that prominent male character exist in majority female cast shows. I wonder if fujo are the same?

After YoI I thought there will be much more anime with male homo undertones but nothing much changed. Well propably there aren't enough source material for that kind anime. Most BL are cheap porn/romance with one volume and original anime are risky.

English is not my native language.


Yes, Fujoshi are the same when it comes to female characters being in predominantly male casts regardless of if there is ship tease between her and the male characters or nor because they feel like she 'll get in the way of the ship. ( And depending on the Anime, " She " usuall y does so i can't exactly blame then especially if the ship between main or relatively popular boy and random girl become canon for forced reasons ).b

There will be a female character in the show, based off of the baby that appeared in the prequel manga. You can see a shot of her in the PV on a virtual billboard thing. There's also a little girl(?) who I assume is the main boys younger sister or something. Little sisters usually get a free pass unless the Anime wants to be weird and incesty.

Lastly, a lot of Anime have homo undertones for fanservice purposes. Its not as prominent unless its mad a big deal out like they do in Anime with predominantly female casts between the girls. Two Girl Romantic Friendship anime are just more overt with their fanservice.
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CardamonPastel



Joined: 01 Oct 2016
Posts: 107
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:38 am Reply with quote
#HayamiLover wrote:
1dbad wrote:
I never said it wouldn't be aimed at fujo. Just that with Ikuhara at the helm, I'm confident it'll have enough substance to appeal to more than just fujo fans. If anything, I think Yuri on Ice shows you can appeal to both demographics simultaneously.


I don't think that YIC has ever applied to both demographics. Yes, this is a great anime shoujo, but excuse me, its popularity among qeer audience was caused solely by the Western media, which for some reason decided that the gay couple is something unique to mainstream anime. In the end, even now its audience consists predominantly of heterosexual girls.

Super_M wrote:
Thers more straight people intrested in gay content than qeer people intrested in gay content. Utena was more popular with men than women at least in NHK poll and correct me if i'm wrong but Utena target audience was girls.( I don't watched Utena show).


This is quite controversial. I can’t call myself an extremely sociable fan, but I have only met exclusively fangirls of this series, and read articles about it predominantly on female-focused resourses. I know that there are enough shoujo series that attract males because of qeer or qeer bait content, but Utena is too specific work for this.

Super_M wrote:
Yep and It's not only anime. Shonen and Seinen manga are more popular than Shoujo and Josei manga. Girls even prefer male targeted magazine becouse shoujo/josei lack intresting titles. Thers no shoujo/josei magazine at level shonen jump, shonen magazine, shonen sunday, young jump. Light Novel are mostly harem isekai and that strange becouse women overall read more fiction than men. Galge are more popular than otome. Games have more otaku pandering than fujo/otome pandering. Well overal otaku/geek/nerd media have more guys pandering. Well propably guys give company more cash even if sometimes ago ANN publish this article. animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2018-05-10/money-is-a-girl-best-friend-otaku-women-are-a-major-fandom-financial-force/.131368


Well, I could be mistaken, but I always had the impression that the industry always considers men as the main consumers, and women only as an “additional market”. Up to the fact that recently more and more female authors go to shonen and seinen magazines if they want to create work that will be of interest to any people regardless of gender.

And it looks especially unfair against the background of the fact that modern shoujo anime is only an adaptation of otome games with rare exceptions.


About the Yuri On Ice thing, Yeah, exactly. The western fanbase made a big deal out of it. Ultimately, it was more popular with heterosexual women who are more than likely to be fujoshi. Fujoshi who are often ignorant so it's not a big surprise. But the LGBT side of the fanbase are rather ignorant as well, considering they think its some sort of godsent anime that treats the couple " realistically " given the setting which I'd have to argue is untrue. No one in the show treats the two becoming a couple as " weird " ( Which I'd say is the most unrealistic thing about it ) and it's not as fetishized as normal BL couple, but the treatment of Yuri and Viktor was far from realistic. People can dream though. This isn't an attack on LGBT people, just to clarify.

Dokyuusei did a better job, in my opinion, though i personally am not a fan of that movie.

Also, Yo i classified as a Shoujo Anime? Since when?

Utena didn't seem like it was aimed at a specific audience, regardless of the tagged genre. I feel like it was a work that could be enjoyed by anyone given the subject matter.

Also, i agree on the last thing you said. The media treats female consumers as an afterthought. In gaming, manga and Anime despite how much money they could pull in if they focused on their female demographics. Male consumers do make up a larger portion of media consumption but women popularized a lot of things that are still being covered in the media today, interestingly.
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CardamonPastel



Joined: 01 Oct 2016
Posts: 107
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:44 am Reply with quote
#HayamiLover wrote:
@Super_M Even if we forget that the industry is more tolerant of female homosexuality than of male's, as the market is mainly focused on straight men, there have been relatively few shoujo anime lately. Therefore, first in the queue are more "normal" works.

Well, I am not yaoi fangirl, but I have heard that girls in sport shounen get quite a lot of hatred, and fangirls either ignore their existence or try to create yuri ships with them, lol.


" industry is more tolerant of female homosexuality than of male's "

It's a shame that this is true for both sides of the sea. In the west, in the media and even in cartoons now, you see an overwhelming number of the female side of LGBT being represented but not the male side. I guess they think it's safer if they do the female side and doesn't trigger the moral guardian audience as much, though introducing a prominent mlm couple in the mainstream media would be more controversial but necessary at this point.

I'd say its interesting that in Japan the market for BL seems to be far bigger than for Yuri. Though these things never really end up becoming mainstream or aren't often taken seriously. Nor could they serve as good rep for the LGBT community ( Not that it tries to, tbh. Its just porn mostly. )
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1dbad



Joined: 12 Jul 2015
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Location: Texas
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:47 pm Reply with quote
CardamonPastel wrote:
But the LGBT side of the fanbase are rather ignorant as well, considering they think its some sort of godsent anime that treats the couple " realistically " given the setting which I'd have to argue is untrue. No one in the show treats the two becoming a couple as " weird " ( Which I'd say is the most unrealistic thing about it ) and it's not as fetishized as normal BL couple, but the treatment of Yuri and Viktor was far from realistic.

Speaking as a gay man, the appeal of Yuri on Ice to me was the realism with Yuri and Viktor as both people and a couple, not how realistic the worldbuilding was. No one batting an eye at them becoming a couple may not be "realistic", but I don't see how that's a bad thing? There are plenty of works out there that tackle how hard it is to be LGBT, so I find Yuri a refreshing change of pace in that regard. Not to mention, escapism is part of the appeal of fantasy. Their world not working like ours is part of the appeal!
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