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#HayamiLover
Joined: 22 Jul 2018
Posts: 796
Location: Eastern Europe
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:40 pm
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1dbad wrote: |
CardamonPastel wrote: | But the LGBT side of the fanbase are rather ignorant as well, considering they think its some sort of godsent anime that treats the couple " realistically " given the setting which I'd have to argue is untrue. No one in the show treats the two becoming a couple as " weird " ( Which I'd say is the most unrealistic thing about it ) and it's not as fetishized as normal BL couple, but the treatment of Yuri and Viktor was far from realistic. |
Speaking as a gay man, the appeal of Yuri on Ice to me was the realism with Yuri and Viktor as both people and a couple, not how realistic the worldbuilding was. No one batting an eye at them becoming a couple may not be "realistic", but I don't see how that's a bad thing? There are plenty of works out there that tackle how hard it is to be LGBT, so I find Yuri a refreshing change of pace in that regard. Not to mention, escapism is part of the appeal of fantasy. Their world not working like ours is part of the appeal! |
It's not about homophobia or gayinst, although we all know how homophobic Russia is. For me personally, the downside was that while Victor was a more or less realistic anime guy, Yuri was too cartoonish and stereotypically feminine.
However, if you didn't find it offensive and enjoyed these characters, then everything is fine. In the end, I am not the target audience of this show.
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1dbad
Joined: 12 Jul 2015
Posts: 709
Location: Texas
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:50 pm
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#HayamiLover wrote: | For me personally, the downside was that while Victor was a more or less realistic anime guy, Yuri was too cartoonish and stereotypically feminine.
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Personally, I found Yuri relatable. I also thought the show subverted the feminine uke thing by having him become increasingly dominant with his displays of sexuality throughout the show. The show never pigeonholes them into the cliche uke/seme stereotypes the way most BL/yaoi anime are guilty are.
But getting back on topic, I still think it's possible for Sarazanmai to appeal to gay men even if fujos are the target demographic. Periphery demographic are a thing in media, and Ikuhara has already shown he knows how to make them work. (like how Utena was able to capture an adult male audience and a female LGBT audience despite being a shojo aimed at young girls)
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#HayamiLover
Joined: 22 Jul 2018
Posts: 796
Location: Eastern Europe
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:10 am
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1dbad wrote: | Personally, I found Yuri relatable. I also thought the show subverted the feminine uke thing by having him become increasingly dominant with his displays of sexuality throughout the show. The show never pigeonholes them into the cliche uke/seme stereotypes the way most BL/yaoi anime are guilty are.
But getting back on topic, I still think it's possible for Sarazanmai to appeal to gay men even if fujos are the target demographic. Periphery demographic are a thing in media, and Ikuhara has already shown he knows how to make them work. (like how Utena was able to capture an adult male audience and a female LGBT audience despite being a shojo aimed at young girls) |
Well, I don't want to become toxic or boring, so for my part I will only say that if it don't be offensive and qeer people really find it interesting, it will be great. At least MAPPA and Ikuhara instill confidence in a good result.
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Cardcaptor Takato
Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 4824
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:13 am
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I find it a bit hypocritical for a bunch of straight Western anime fans to declare what LGBTQ+ fans can and cannot enjoy. We don't need anyone's permission to enjoy fujoshi anime or find value in Ikuhara's works and Yuri On Ice and it's kind of offensive to make broad generalizations about what LGBTQ+ can enjoy. Regardless of what subject matter Ikuhara's new anime will be about, I'm interested in it because he always has something interesting to say and I'm already impressed by the unique blend of live action and animation. It reminds me a lot of the live action segments in End of Evangelion. We should wait till we actually know the plot is about before making assumptions or insulting an entire community by telling us we can't enjoy this.
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SailorTralfamadore
Joined: 25 Feb 2014
Posts: 499
Location: Keep Austin Weeb
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:40 pm
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CardamonPastel wrote: | It's a shame that this is true for both sides of the sea. In the west, in the media and even in cartoons now, you see an overwhelming number of the female side of LGBT being represented but not the male side. I guess they think it's safer if they do the female side and doesn't trigger the moral guardian audience as much, though introducing a prominent mlm couple in the mainstream media would be more controversial but necessary at this point. |
As much as I see this stated everywhere, as a lesbian this sure doesn't feel true. At least in terms of being evidence of "toleration" of "female homosexuality": a lot of media depictions of lesbian and bisexual female characters or W/W couplings are in a way that's clearly catered to the male gaze and can actually be pretty alienating for actual lesbians, since it seems to have so little to do with who we are, our relationships or our sexuality. It's more about what men who find us "hot" want us to be. The media's obsession with hot ladies has always been a weird double-edged sword for lesbians and bi women, but especially in the case of yuri and other genres seemingly "about" us but not "with" or "for" us. Make sure not to confuse fetishization with actual tolerance of the real-world equivalents of those characters. The same can be said of a lot of BL, too; I've known "yaoi fangirls" who were opposed to same-sex marriage and thought being gay was immoral. Sure didn't feel like "tolerance" to be friends with those girls as a deeply-closeted lesbian growing up. Part of the reason there's more "lesbian" content in the West is that Western media, until very recently, wasn't as comfortable with making stuff featuring men specifically for the "female gaze" in the same way anime/manga has. Actual pro-LGBT content going for an LGBT or otherwise progressive audience tends to focus more on gay men than lesbians.
On the flip side, despite being about gay men rather than lesbians, Yuri on Ice feels like something much closer to my own life experience and that of many queer women even compared to a lot of yuri that's made for men or straight women. Sure, it has a lot of "fujoshi" fans, as anything with cute boys falling in love will, and maybe you could argue it was "made for them" if anyone (it was actually Sayo Yamamoto's passion project that she had an extraordinarily difficult time getting any studio to take seriously until MAPPA, a studio focused on helping creator-driven projects like that get made)... but there's a reason it's captured such a strong LGBT fanbase worldwide compared to other homoerotic anime. It resonates with us and takes our lives and desires seriously in a way that's still far too rare. (Also, FTR, not all "fujoshi" are straight.)
But Ikuhara is probably better at that than any other anime creator, so I'm excited that he's making something for gay/bisexual men (and maybe also trans people?) at long last. His work, too, has always had a strong queer male fanbase for similar reasons that lesbians like me like Yuri on Ice; his shows' themes resonate across the LGBT spectrum. But there are definitely some parts that are more specific to the lesbian experience in his previous work, especially Yurikuma, so I'm glad he's branching out to another part of his audience this time.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 16935
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:52 pm
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For starters stay on topic people. This is not even a series discussion thread, it's a simple promo thread. There's no need to start trying to make connections between this show and other shows.
Secondly some of you need to stop with the assumptions about what groups of people will/should or will not/should not like or enjoy. There's a lot of assumptions going around by people who are not even a part of these groups. It makes your arguments come off as much more insincere to say the least. Again, this is not even the thread for such discussions to begin with. So lets reel it in folks.
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