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EP. REVIEW: JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Golden Wind


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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 4251
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:26 pm Reply with quote
I understand that there are plot reasons why they have switched bodies, but does anyone else think that one of them is because Araki realised that Trish had barely done anything of note, her sheer existence is more important than anything she has done, and had only been in stand battle.

Because since she swapped with Mista, she(or at least her body) has been way more proactive than at any point leading up to this.Whether this is because he did not know how to portray her in such a manner or that Mista's stand is more versatile than Trish's.


Last edited by MarshalBanana on Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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ChestPains



Joined: 05 Oct 2016
Posts: 101
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:52 pm Reply with quote
Well Trish is basically just a normal civilian that ended up with a stand, and a not-so-strong one at that. Chariot Requiem exists to split Doppio from Diavolo, not to give Trish a spotlight.

I'm surprised people are somehow finding this arc hard to follow, when the anime explained everything in the easiest way possible. And I don't see the problem with the body swap thing in the first place, because it just means even when they get to the boss, he still (by a stroke of luck) manages to hide himself again, in plain sight no less. And on top of that the golden arrow makes the situation even worse because it's essentially a "whoever gets it wins" situation vs an invisible opponent (until he reveals himself at least).


...All that said, Giorno's thing about seeing souls with his stand is pretty obviously related to how GE has the power of life. That's been hammered into every fight he's in even if for a moment, it's not like "stand that literally gives life" being able to check life is a stretch.
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Generations



Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 168
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:01 pm Reply with quote
This final battle is why I've always considered Golden Wind to be one of the weaker parts. While the first half really started strongly, it just ended on such a weak, unexciting, unecessarily-confusing note. David Production's done their best in adding all these little touches that elevate the weak and confusing parts of the manga, but overall it can't fix how unimpressive this fight is and how little I care about half of the protagonists. I felt infinitely less invested about Diavolo after his reveal.

Stone Ocean had an equally bizarre ending and really jumped off the rails when spoiler[Bohemian Rhapsody] showed up, but overall I definitely think it was a stronger part overall and had characters I cared more about. At this point, I'm just watching it because it's still JoJo-enjoyable, but at the same time can't wait maybe two years from now when Part 6 finally brings us something more enjoyable again.
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Stelman257



Joined: 26 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:06 pm Reply with quote
Nah I still super dig it, and the body switching stuff, while a weird gimmick for a final boss fight, all plays into the idea that the boss truly is this mysterious entity that they can never find. David have done a brilliant job keeping everything as uhh “loosely coherent” as possible. Giorno and Trish both getting their shots at stopping the boss from getting the Arrow were great moments, and I’m excited for what happens in the lead up to these last few episodes.

That said I don’t disagree with looking forward to part 6! I’m super pumped for that for sure!
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Zeino



Joined: 19 May 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:01 pm Reply with quote
The final battle of Golden Wind being an anticlimactic whimper (and not helped by the resolution going on to something else) is usually cited as the number one problem with Part 5. Araki had basically written himself into a corner with how to beat Diavolo as King Crimson's ability to predict the future and skip past any action he doesn't like makes coming up with a way to defeat him much harder than pulling "he gets blown into outer space!" or "They have the same Stand powers!"

Since KC is a god-mode cheating kind of Stand, the only way out then is to give Giorno the most over-powered Stand in the entire series. (Seriously, Gold Experience Requiem is on the level of the strongest members of the cast of Dragon Ball Super or Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann) And the kind of power is that basically the reality-warping version of the kid at the playground going "uh-uh, everything you did just now didn't count." feels cheap cop-out as a resolution compared to the previous JoJo finales.

Granted, Araki would learn from this. The main villains of Parts 6 and 7 have Stands with abilities to nearly rival GER in OPness and he comes up with logical in-universe ways to defeat them that don't feel like a clear deus ex machina like in Part 5.
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Stelman257



Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Posts: 117
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:29 am Reply with quote
This final battle was absolutely amazing and wonderfully satisfying. Seeing Diavolo FINALLY get what’s coming to him, after easily EASILY being the most threatening and impactful villain in all of Jojo was wonderful. Bruno’s send off is one of my favourite in all of Jojo.

I gotta be honest, most of this review reads like a series of statements to try and deter from the beauty of this finale. Like that the reviewer didn’t get quite what he wanted, but got something just as amazing if not better, and they’re a bit in denial about it. The fact that it’s still a 4/5 despite all the backhanded compliments really says it all I think.

I do fully agree with the reviewer on the arrow powerup though. Unlike a lot of people who seem to think it’s some sort of “lame op item” or “araki wrote himself into a corner”, to me it seems incredibly logical that after so much hype, the arrow would do exactly what is needed to completely annihilate King Crimson. That fact that it looks so cool and interesting doing so only makes it even better~.
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:25 am Reply with quote
It feels rather empty now that we are down to only three characters from an original party of seven. And it is a bit of a shame, because once Fugo and Abbacchio had gone this part had some of the best lead characters.
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Merida
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Joined: 21 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:25 am Reply with quote
^Well, it's not really JoJo unless half of the main cast have died by the end...but i also rather liked Bruno's Jesus-like ascension. Smile
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Stelman257



Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Posts: 117
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:06 pm Reply with quote
Yeah it was really beautiful, and his final speech to Giorno really spoke to how much of a brilliant character Bruno was all around.
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ChestPains



Joined: 05 Oct 2016
Posts: 101
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:41 pm Reply with quote
First off, loved the finale and what they did with it.

However "Fate" reveals itself to be the main theme of the series around the time Diavolo really becomes relevant. Him having such an OP stand that basically shows him the future so he never messes up is treated as being a "gift" of "fate" to him because of his psyche. It's shown even in the first reveal of KC, when he finds Polnareff, when he gets the arrow, and when he thinks he has Giorno beat.

You can easily compare it back to how Kira handled things, and how everything he did was credited to himself for overcoming his problems by being cool headed and thinking. Diavolo is the complete opposite, crediting everything to "fate" and how "fate" wants him to win or "fate" has led him to obtain the arrow. Even when he loses the arrow he treats it as "fate" showing him that's the way to defeat Giorno before he uses it.

The poetic "fudge you" to that is GER telling him he'll never arrive at the truth/fate. It's a stand that (while a lot of people dislike what it ACTUALLY does) serves as the perfect answer to Diavolo's obsession.

'Rolling Stones' is only there to show that it wasn't just Giorno, but all of the gang has been defying fate since before the series even started, with Mista doing everything he can to stop the stone from giving Bruno a humane death (despite Scolippi saying it would only make it worse, he wanted to prolong Bruno's life). And it's that very act of defying fate that set in motion the events of the entire series. One could look at it and say he's responsible for Abbachio and Narancia, but the truth is that like Scolippi said, maybe that would give their journey of hardship a reason, and indeed it did, with them toppling the Boss even if it sacrificed their friends, something which might or might not have happened if Bruno had died by touching the stone, or died when the stone showed it (KC fight). Which also implies the only reason GE could keep Bruno alive at that moment was because of that.

Unlike most other parts, I came to enjoy Golden Wind more quite some time after finishing it. It's certainly the part that has the most subtle themes and narrative compared to the usual straightforward story and moral of the others, the way I see it. Aside from SBR that is, but that's quite a few years ahead.
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Avert



Joined: 01 Aug 2019
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:15 pm Reply with quote
I've been following these reviews for a few months now, and I've really enjoyed reading them. But I think I'm finding myself a bit disappointed as we come to the end. Sam seemed to be asking for the show to deliver on its thematic elements in the past few reviews, and the finale did that in spades. I'm surprised he said he never would have pegged fate as one of the themes of the part, since that's been a huge one nearly the whole way through. Even Abbacchio's death had a lot to do with making the most of an unavoidable fate. The flashback with Scolippi provides a backbone for this, underlining how they were fated to die from before the gang even met Giorno due to the choices made by various characters. Part 4 is where Araki started to get experimental with his endings, which only continues, and part 5's end feels like a really good example of this. It's weird, and I'll admit it can feel out of place at times, but it serves to make a point about the themes in the story. Diavolo's end would also make a lot of sense when viewed in that context, as he is obsessed with fate keeping him on top, and always skips to get to the end result. In the loop, he never reaches the end result, and is always stuck in the middle, which he is so fond of skipping. Abbacchio's partner's speech about the end result not being the most important part comes to mind, and I think that was Araki making another point about fate.

I also dunno if saying most people find Giorno boring is accurate. I know there's plenty of people who do, but I've noticed as of late that there's also a huge portion of the fanbase that likes him. I think the anime did a lot for his reputation amongst the fans, and it's definitely changed for the better than how it was say 3 years ago. Another reason I'm loving these adaptations so much is how much they add to these characters.

Overall, I just really thought this part was great, and I did enjoy keeping up with the reviews. I'm sad to see it end, but I really can't wait for the Stone Ocean adaptation. There's a lot of potential for that one, and Araki's branching into experimental territories in the part has a lot of chances to shine in adaptation format. Part 4 started this, part 5 really embraced it, and 6, 7, and 8 really further it. Now we just wait.
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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 1452
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:19 pm Reply with quote
The end did get really confusing, and a bit odd with a sudden flashback episode from the past.

I can see how it thematically fits, and I still enjoyed all of it. But the end is a mess. If it teaches us anything, it's that simple-to-understand stands, but with a variety of flexible uses are the best. OP stands are also no good. It's better when the villain is clever, and we did get some of that with the awesome fight against Metallica. That was the highlight boss battle for me.
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 3837
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:04 pm Reply with quote
David Production's adaptation remained as stellar as always, and I get the overall theme that Araki was trying to portray, but I just...fundamentally do not understand what he was doing there from the standpoint of narrative structure. It was just completely bizarre, and not in the standard welcome Jojo way. Gold Experience Requiem was far from the first power-up asspull the franchise has indulged in, and Diavolo's final fate was a delicious bit of cold justice, but then in the aftermath we get this incredibly awkward hard cut to...a prequel sequence apparently? Pulling another random villain-of-the-week in the attempt to make a grandiose overarching statement about the struggle against fate just felt massively anticlimactic. We never get to see Mista and Trish coming to terms with Bucciarati's death, and I guess Polnareff is still gonna be a turtle, cool? And then we only get a 30-second glimpse of Giorno stepping into his role at the very end, without so much as a glimpse of what Trish wound up doing. The past few parts have had incredibly-satisfying conclusions, with even part 4's comical anticlimax of the ambulance being handled perfectly with the alley scene afterwards. Watching this just left me staring at my screen thinking, "Okay, I...guess that's how you end something?"

I know part 5 is reportedly the most popular in Japan, but taken as a whole, I think I'd have to put it near the bottom of my list. (For context, parts 2 and 4 keep vying against each other in my brain for top billing.) It felt like Araki had a ton of really crazy and interesting ideas, but he was never able to get them to gel together into a cohesive whole. Contrast that with part 4, where Araki purportedly didn't even know that Kira would be the ultimate villain until halfway through writing the arc, yet still managed to bring things home in a very satisfying manner. At the end of the day it was still a very enjoyable experience: the main characters were memorable, the villains were colorful, and the Stand battles were easily the most ridiculous thus far. But I think it could have benefited a great deal from a heavier editorial touch. Of course Araki probably would have said "yeah no we're doing this" anyway. Laughing
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Avert



Joined: 01 Aug 2019
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:09 pm Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:
Gold Experience Requiem was far from the first power-up asspull the franchise has indulged in
It wasn't really an asspull though. It was foreshadowed with the events of part 4, and multiple episodes of part 5 were spent building up it's importance to the plot, with it being hailed as the key to defeating Diavolo. I'm not sure why people are surprised it did exactly that. Now, GER itself is most definitely a broken ability, and I can understand why some people may not have liked how the show ended, but it's differing personal preferences on this one. There's plenty of people who love how part 5 ended and the themes it showed, and there's plenty of people who don't. I'd say it probably depends on how much the ending connected with you. For me, it connected a lot, but I can see how some would see it as anticlimactic.
Top Gun wrote:
We never get to see Mista and Trish coming to terms with Bucciarati's death, and I guess Polnareff is still gonna be a turtle, cool? And then we only get a 30-second glimpse of Giorno stepping into his role at the very end, without so much as a glimpse of what Trish wound up doing. The past few parts have had incredibly-satisfying conclusions, with even part 4's comical anticlimax of the ambulance being handled perfectly with the alley scene afterwards.
Those are some of the nitpicks I have with part 5's ending as well, but I suppose we can't have everything we want. There is actually a light novel that's basically an epilogue to part 5. It's called Purple Haze Feedback, and sheds light on the fates of Fugo,Trish, Mista, Giorno, and the rest of Passione. It wasn't written by Araki (though he did do the illustrations for it), but it's a pretty awesome read that adds so much to the story, and is considered canon-lite by a lot of the fandom. Very good read.
As for part 4's ending, there's actually a canon side-story manga called Dead Man's Questions that directly relates to the ending of part 4, and changed the way I viewed it due to the some of the stuff that happens in it. Reading this before reading part 5 manga made me realize Araki's been pulling twists in stories for a while now, so the tonal shift at the ending of part 5 didn't surprise me.
Top Gun wrote:
But I think it could have benefited a great deal from a heavier editorial touch. Of course Araki probably would have said "yeah no we're doing this" anyway.

I think that would have done more harm than good. The impression I've gotten from interviews Araki has had is that the editors were already making him change a lot of things in the stories, and had a heavy sway on things. Part 6 in particular seems to have suffered from this the most, though it's an amazing part anyways. I just don't think heavier editing would necessarily have had a positive effect on the story Araki was writing, and would probably have just limited it more in a bad way.
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Zeino



Joined: 19 May 2017
Posts: 964
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:50 am Reply with quote
It ended as I expected it to. DavdPro did their very best to uplift the material and make the anime adaptation of Golden Wind shine but they still couldn't fix that dud of a final battle and or the resolution being a flashback wonkly trying to tie it all together thematically while costing much of the time that could have been better spent seeing Giorno become Don or what happened to Trish.

In general of my assessment of this season, Part 5's biggest flaw besides the ending has always struck me as being fairly uninspired in terms of the main protagonist and antagonist. Giorno started off with some unique abilities (damage reflector and perception weirdness) but they quickly turned him into a clone of Josuke, turning him into the team healer and largely using his "make a thing alive" trick to do the same things Josuke would do with something broken (use it as a seeking device; use it to create new structures).

Likewise, Diavolo's abilities were more or less a clone of Dio's but much more confusingly written...but essentially added up to the same sort of scenes. If The World didn't already exist it would be a cool time-manipulation ability given that time moves but no one remembers it, but ultimately it just comes down to The World but with added SFX in some cases and poorly explained advantages and limitations.

Characterization-wise both were pretty weak as well. Giorno didn't have a ton of personality and Diavolo suffered from being kept hidden too much. Dio had plenty of backstory prior to part 3 and was a glorious ham when he appeared. Kira was hidden from the Morioh gang but we got a ton of time to get into his head and get invested in the cat and mouse game. Diavolo...not so much.

I will say Golden Wind had possibly the best Joebros. I honestly think Buccaretti is more the main character of the story than Giorno was and while his stand was more basic, he absolutely pushed it to the limit which made his fights much more distinctive. The characterization of the team in general was pretty strong and all of them were given time to shine, which I appreciated.

And even if it's still the weakest arc of the series in my eyes, it's still JoJo, which means it's weird and amazing and I love it and will defend it to the death.

But now we can look foreword to the best two parts in my opinion being animated at long last. Hopefully the wait won't be as long this time....
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