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EP. REVIEW: Goblin Slayer [2018-10-14]


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Ashabel



Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Posts: 350
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:59 am Reply with quote
Galap wrote:
It's pretty clear to me that that's just a front. When the people she was talking to left she immediately took a more relaxed, defeated pose.


Belatedly, but my point here was that in the anime, her "business front" is a front for nothing at all. Beyond said business front, she has yet to demonstrate any single personality trait beyond maybe "likes Goblin Slayer".

Yes, so she slumps onto the desk in a defeated fashion. Why? What did she dislike about that interaction? Did she dislike the monetary reward? Did she dislike that that the villager is a creep, which is exclusive to the anime version and doesn't exist in the novels or the manga? Does she dislike dealing with goblin quests in general? Is her exhaustion caused by the movement of planetary bodies?

There's nothing. She is a vapid blank cipher with one single mode of behavior that serves as a front for a puff of vapor. The anime disposed of pretty much all indicators that she's an actual functional person.
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Mad_Scientist
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Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:43 pm Reply with quote
Debus wrote:
Mad_Scientist wrote:
@Debus

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Which is my entire point, rape isn't in Goblin Slayer because it's realistic. (And for that matter, Goblin Slayer is in not a realistic series in many ways anyways.) Rape is in Goblin Slayer because that's what the author choice to write about.
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Thinking that you know exactly what an author was thinking at the time they wrote something is pretty arrogant.



Then why do you and others keep on insisting that you know exactly what the author was intending, and that he added Goblin Rape because he thought it would be realistic?

My statement was a statement of fact, no different than "the author chose to write a story about a guy who kills goblins" or "he chose to write a story where people are known by titles or classes rather than names."

If someone said "I don't really like the whole thing where people don't have names, it feels clunky to me" it would be kinda silly for someone to try to defend it by insisting it HAD to be that way because it's more realistic, right? And then everyone completely ignored the fact that the no-names thing was something the author chose to do.

Well, that's essentially what is happening with the goblin rapist thing.

maximilianjenus wrote:
Dudes, relax, in japanese fantasy fiction golbins are rapists and dragons are horny. making them otherwise would break conventions.


That's why the goblins in the slime isekai airing right now are rapists- oh wait, they aren't. And the goblins in grimgar were also- not rapists as far as I know. Are you sure you're not getting "fantasy fiction" mixed up with "hentai"?

So we've gone from goblins have to rapists because its realistic, to they have to be rapists because it would break fantasy convention otherwise (though isn't part of the entire appeal of Goblin Slayer that it's not a conventional fantasy fiction since it focuses the so called "weakest" of all the fantasy monsters?)

Really, people can just say "I think the rape added to the dark and gritty atmosphere of the show which I like." I think they could have achieved that atmosphere other ways but will be more than happy to just say "that's fair" and agree to disagree about that.

The reason why I keep on harping on the realism thing is because it seems to be being used to essentially shut down and invalidate any criticism of that element. Like my example above, if someone doesn't like the naming convention of the series, they can mention it, and people can argue for or against it, and even if you're someone who likes the naming convention and disagrees with the criticism, you can at least agree that it's a part of the series that is open to criticism.

But by insisting falsely that the goblin rape is required to make the series realistic, well, then that means that anyone upset with it (or possibly even upset not with the rape buy how it was portrayed) is trying to make the series unrealistic. They're trying to remove the authenticity from the show, right? It adds an implied (and in some cases not so implied) invalidation of any of the objections.

That's really why I'm harping on this, I'm not even trying to convince anyone that the show shouldn't have included the goblin rape at this point. Just that including it didn't make the show more realistic nor was it something the author HAD to do, it was simply one of many artistic choices made for this series, and thus criticism of it is as potentially valid as criticism of any other choice made. That's all.


Last edited by Mad_Scientist on Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jenthehen



Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 835
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:45 pm Reply with quote
Ashabel wrote:
Galap wrote:
It's pretty clear to me that that's just a front. When the people she was talking to left she immediately took a more relaxed, defeated pose.


Belatedly, but my point here was that in the anime, her "business front" is a front for nothing at all. Beyond said business front, she has yet to demonstrate any single personality trait beyond maybe "likes Goblin Slayer".

Yes, so she slumps onto the desk in a defeated fashion. Why? What did she dislike about that interaction? Did she dislike the monetary reward? Did she dislike that that the villager is a creep, which is exclusive to the anime version and doesn't exist in the novels or the manga? Does she dislike dealing with goblin quests in general? Is her exhaustion caused by the movement of planetary bodies?

There's nothing. She is a vapid blank cipher with one single mode of behavior that serves as a front for a puff of vapor. The anime disposed of pretty much all indicators that she's an actual functional person.


I thought it was pretty obvious that she was being all optimistic to the villager about how an adventurer will come to help, when she knows it's unlikely anyone (except for Goblin Slayer) would want the quest since the reward money was so little and there is no glory in goblin slaying quests. Which is also why she's excited that Goblin Slayer shows up (and a part of why she likes him - he's doing work nobody else seems to want to do!)
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LastPage 3



Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 193
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:58 pm Reply with quote
meiam wrote:

Well... that's quite simply not how human being work, at all. Look at something like 9/11, almost no one had family that died during those event and the chance of dying from terrorist are absurdly small. Yet look at how concern people were with terrorism, look at how much people talk about it, how much the government try to fight it.


They cared because the news told them to care, because every time they turned on their tv or opened a newspaper, people told them about it.

Quote:
If the show is really trying to say that people don't care if it doesn't affect them, well then the show is incredibly misinformed and any conclusion it'll come too will be deeply flawed and downright stupid.


Sadly, it has been my experience that people really don't care about most things unless it affects them.
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stilldemented



Joined: 16 May 2015
Posts: 232
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:46 pm Reply with quote
Mad_Scientist wrote:
That's really why I'm harping on this, I'm not even trying to convince anyone that the show shouldn't have included the goblin rape at this point. Just that including it didn't make the show more realistic nor was it something the author HAD to do, it was simply one of many artistic choices made for this series, and thus criticism of it is as potentially valid as criticism of any other choice made. That's all.


For what it's worth, I really don't think you're alone in these sentiments. Plenty of authors have commented on this very subject and most agree with you that rape shouldn't be utilized flippantly. That it could be considered uncouth if it is only used as aesthetic rather than theme. There's several guidelines written up about when it is or isn't best to incorporate it into fiction.

I will say though that those guidelines are extraordinarily strict. To the point where I found myself wondering if there is almost no value for its existence in fiction. Even the best of stories that tackle the issue are met with the same frustration and outrage we have seen shaking the anime community in the past week.

We can argue in circles about gratuity, realism, value, etc., but the moment the author incorporated this scene into their fiction was the moment that they committed to opening Pandora's Box.

As far as I can tell, showing the scene served two functions.

1) Aesthetic/World Building- This is a grim world where bad things can happen to good people. The author wants you to take a relatively weak fantasy creature as a very serious threat. The show wants to touch on the dark fantasy genre.

2) Kill Sentimentality- The author does not want anyone trying to see the good in goblins. The author doesn't want there to be any room for grey morality. The author doesn't want anyone weeping when Goblin Slayer exterminates goblin nests. The author doesn't want you to think less of Goblin Slayer for killing baby goblins. The author doesn't want to leave any sort of room for discussion. Goblins are despicable monsters. And the author wants you to be on Goblin Slayer's side in his vendetta.

We can argue in circles over whether or not there was a better way for the author to arrive at the same place without kicking the hornet's nest. But they didn't. So all that's left is to accept that this is a thing moving forward and see where it goes.

Some will want to give the author the benefit of the doubt. They will likely Justify.
Some will have their suspension of disbelief shattered. They will likely Decry.

Try not to think less of anyone over this dispute.
How we handle this discussion is what truly counts.
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#844391



Joined: 09 Sep 2015
Posts: 517
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:10 pm Reply with quote
If you haven't seen it yet, Gigguk's video on Goblin Slayer just came out. I've sort of just stepped away from the conversation around this series at this point and am just going to watch it, but it was good to see someone poke fun at how overblown the arguments over this series have been.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5824
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:02 pm Reply with quote
@stilldemented
I agree with you to some degree, people are just going too deep on this. This is just the author's Goblin Slayer universe. It doesn't have to be canon to the rest of the fantasy universe or be true to some of its tropes.

But the thing about guide lines....... There are no rules, other than those basic writing and composition ones. Author's and Artist's should not be compelled to follow other's ideas of what is proper and decorum. If their work is a piece of themselves, then they should stand tall. In today's world, people are going to hate you, no matter what you do. It is folly to bind your imagination to the will of others.

That said, mainstream work does have it's sponsors and if you are a worker bee, you get the idea.
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Debus



Joined: 05 Apr 2018
Posts: 12
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:37 pm Reply with quote
Mad_Scientist wrote:

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That's really why I'm harping on this, I'm not even trying to convince anyone that the show shouldn't have included the goblin rape at this point. Just that including it didn't make the show more realistic nor was it something the author HAD to do, it was simply one of many artistic choices made for this series, and thus criticism of it is as potentially valid as criticism of any other choice made. That's all.


I agree that it isn't something that the author had to do. There are any number of ways that you could make the world dangerous and gritty without having that rape in there.

But it does make the world more realistic, because right from the start anything goes.

Think about My Hero Academia. Is that show ever going to have a rape scene in it? Absolutely not. Even though one of the powers available is essentially "mind control", no one is ever going to get raped. Ever. And there is nothing wrong with that. It's the same for most shows, the terrible things that would actually happen are glossed over. And that makes them unrealistic. That doesn't mean that My Hero Academia is bad, but it certainly doesn't have realistic consequences.

Same with the unrealistic combat. You know what would beat 95% of the Heroes in My Hero Academia? A gun. 95% of the characters in that show aren't bullet proof, but they only fight against others using powers. The fact that the bad guys don't just set up on a building with an assault rifle and drop heroes when they are walking in to save the day makes the combat not realistic at all.

This show isn't perfect, but it's got realistic consequences for actions. And it's had realistic combat. And those are the reasons I am interested in it.
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db999



Joined: 23 Dec 2017
Posts: 299
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:12 pm Reply with quote
The further away we get from episode 1, and having just watched episode 3, the more I think that the first episode was a giant misstep. If I was to suggest watching the series, and I do, I’d argue that skipping episode 1 would probably help more people get into the series. I keep trying to think of one thing that episode 1 did that I’d say was necessary for the rest of the series, and I just can’t. The tone is also very different from the rest of the series thus far. From everything I’ve seen of episodes 2 and 3, the series comes off as a fairly typical video game or dungeons and dragons narrative. Episode 1 just seems to be edge for the sake of edge, and while I still enjoyed the episode, other than that there seems to be nothing to it. In fact, the only thing I think episode 1 did was stoke controversy over the rape scene, which while it definitely gives the series a ton of publicity, doesn’t really add anything to the show thus far. Anyway, I think that the series gets better with each new episode and hopefully, that improvement continues throughout the rest of the series.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5824
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:57 am Reply with quote
If the anime follows the manga, you are going to get that episode 1 tone, again, and again. Goblins do their thing, and the Goblin Slayer does his. The scenes in the town, usually are lighthearted.
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encrypted12345



Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 718
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:44 am Reply with quote
This episode's review is more or less spot on. I do feel like that while the adaptation isn't bad, it can feel quite awkward at times.

db999 wrote:
The further away we get from episode 1, and having just watched episode 3, the more I think that the first episode was a giant misstep. If I was to suggest watching the series, and I do, I’d argue that skipping episode 1 would probably help more people get into the series. I keep trying to think of one thing that episode 1 did that I’d say was necessary for the rest of the series, and I just can’t. The tone is also very different from the rest of the series thus far. From everything I’ve seen of episodes 2 and 3, the series comes off as a fairly typical video game or dungeons and dragons narrative. Episode 1 just seems to be edge for the sake of edge, and while I still enjoyed the episode, other than that there seems to be nothing to it. In fact, the only thing I think episode 1 did was stoke controversy over the rape scene, which while it definitely gives the series a ton of publicity, doesn’t really add anything to the show thus far. Anyway, I think that the series gets better with each new episode and hopefully, that improvement continues throughout the rest of the series.


A reasonable opinion, but the anime should resemble episode 1 again next episode. The serees's darkest moments usually have to do something with goblin slaying while the SOL scenes can be surprisingly light hearted in contrast.
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S0crates



Joined: 06 Jul 2018
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Location: Banned - Noticed our poor ethics
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:53 am Reply with quote
Reading some of the stuff here... People keep bringing up episode 1 as "a giant misstep", "making rape a normal thing", etc. etc.

I think those who found that offensive just have to let this go, and conclude this is simple not for them. Just like in Game of Thrones, what makes those scenes interesting is usually that they come out of nowhere, that the build-up breaks the standard expectations of storytelling. The manga was even more extreme at this, where those characters in the first episode had their own background stories with their own hopes and dreams. The shock effect so to speak is a giant selling point, and some people don't like surprises/new things/a shift from the format they've come to expect. I get that just like Game of Thrones, you'll get "this shouldn't be shown on TV" crowds that wants it gone, but there's a lot of people that enjoy it, which is why this is probably going to be among the most watched new series this season.

Now as for this episode (3) spoiler[I really liked the character designs, and the jokes about the elf being 2000 years old really caught me off guard. I hope to learn more about how and why she was kept in isolation for such a long time, not to mention if she's putting on more of an act or if her personality is what it is. This is actually how I expect many people of old age to act if they've kept their young looks, because it would benefit the group dynamic, and it kind of remind me of many MMOs where you got some older lady that sounds like she's 16 in voice chat. This goes especially true for the dwarf/elf pair, if it is true those are supposed to be ancient enemies. It's a good way to break ice by having that teasing back'n forth. I also like the fact that Goblin Slayer's social inability gets put on display as more of a case of "Sheldon Cooper" syndrome, rather than an inborn defect, where the other party members can bypass his weaknesses simply by understanding his thought pattern. It's also rare to have a party of such great age, where the majority seem to fit a middle age category rather than a "teenage road trip", which is very rare in animes. The characters also act more mature in regards to this. Normally you get introduced to the characters in some flashy and fancy way during the first episode, not over them drinking together (because normally all the characters would be under 21, thus "underage" in Japan). If anything I prefer to have the world introduced and the stage set, where the character development happens gradually where you get thrown in elements for you to think about which may or may not influence later outcomes (such as the lizard growing up to become a dragon, which in return is hunted as high level quests). ]

Overall it peeks my interest to keep watching, where it if anything is one of those shows that dare to try something a little bit different from the norm in several aspects. It's also rare for a dark fantasy show to garner this much attention and following, so maybe it's the birth of a new trend.


Last edited by S0crates on Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Grimvice



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:26 am Reply with quote
Quote:
A real story arc kicks off in this episode, as the Goblin Slayer picks up a proper adventuring party alongside Priestess, who accompany him on his goblin-slaying simply because they've got nothing better to do.


fudge. OFF.

They literally explain that they needed Goblin Slayer because he's an expert at hunting goblins, and also because they needed a human party member to help them with a small party because of the politics.

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That may be for the best, since the internal consistency of that portrayal is still in as much flux as it was before. The “other adventurers don't respect Goblin Slayer for slaying goblins” bit gets trotted out again for the second time in two episodes, and it still doesn't gel. The crowds around him act like goblins are easy pickings that he shouldn't be considered impressive for wasting his time on, but the whole point of that shocking first episode was to demonstrate that this wasn't the case. Goblins are both a nothing threat no half-decent adventurer needs to bother with and also potentially dangerous enough that the trio introduced in this episode have to seek GS as a specialist to help them take out their targeted nest.


When are you going to get that in a world where the idea of being an adventurer is romanticized and everyone wants money and fame, a guy who fights nothing but goblins would be at least a little suspicious and looked down on. You're not even trying to entertain the idea that there's at least a small amount of nuance to what's going on???

Quote:
We're constantly told how ugly and lame the Slayer's armor looks, despite it being an objectively striking design that the entire franchise is marketed on.


Of course it's striking when we've gotten nothing but generic shiny-looking armor in every single lame-ass isekai for the past five years. To us the audience it looks striking, but to the adventurers in the world it looks gross and strange.

I swear, it's understandable if you don't like Goblin Slayer, but at least TRY to give the show a fair shake instead of making misleading statements.
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Hal14



Joined: 01 Apr 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:01 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Quote:
A real story arc kicks off in this episode, as the Goblin Slayer picks up a proper adventuring party alongside Priestess, who accompany him on his goblin-slaying simply because they've got nothing better to do.


fudge. OFF.

They literally explain that they needed Goblin Slayer because he's an expert at hunting goblins, and also because they needed a human party member to help them with a small party because of the politics.


While i don't agree with the reviewer, he's talking about priestess not GS.

Quote:
Quote:
We're constantly told how ugly and lame the Slayer's armor looks, despite it being an objectively striking design that the entire franchise is marketed on.


Of course it's striking when we've gotten nothing but generic shiny-looking armor in every single lame-ass isekai for the past five years. To us the audience it looks striking, but to the adventurers in the world it looks gross and strange.


I do agree with this though. In many works of fiction, how characters in universe see something and how we the viewers see it are different. Reminds me of how in Game of thrones, Tyrion is supposed to be hideous but Peter Dinklage is one of the most handsome members of the cast, IMO.
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#844391



Joined: 09 Sep 2015
Posts: 517
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:08 am Reply with quote
The reviewer keeps bringing up goblins and how it's unbelievable no one takes them seriously. Goblins are like rodent infestation in major cities today, no one cares about the issue until it gets to be a visible problem, and if it doesn't affect you personally and is someone else's problem a lot of people still won't care, even if it can result in entire blocks being overrun and being made unlivable.

People only care about high visibility issues like terrorism or getting murdered when you are far more likely to die in a car accident. It's the same in that world. People care about the demon king, dragons and other huge threats, goblins are an afterthought until they become a problem and by the time they grow into a significant threat to warrant a major reaction they've probably already wiped out a bunch of isolated farms and villages.
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