Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Run with the Wind
|
Goto page Previous Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
Merida
 Posts: 1945 |
|
|||
I think the show managed to convey that just fine, it's just that some of the commenters here seem to be so focused on their hatred of his character that they are conveniently ignoring it...it's also a bit condescending that some people seem to consider the rest of the characters to be totally at the mercy of big, bad Haiji, like they have no will or brains of their own... As for the "realism", sure this is not The Prince of Tennis, but it's still a sports anime, so i don't think "oh well, let's just give up on Hakone and run the rest of the episodes just for fun" is not going to happen any time soon... 
|
||||
|
||||
|
AA751
Posts: 72 |
|
|||
Yeah, I was scratching my head at this 'evil Haiji' thing somewhat. I mean, a lot of the most outrageous things he does (ie with Prince and the boxes) is for comedic effect. Just like watching Prince do the titan run, the butterfly, etc, etc. This is a more realist series than say, well, FMA or a lot of the other sports anime I've seen, but it doesn't mean every aspect of it is, Haiji is not an evil manipulator - everyone likes him except maybe Kakeru at the beginning who is basically mostly in WTF mode. As an example, Yuki the lawyer-to-be was the one who had that comedic moment with Haiji in the club and was pissed at Haiji for that - but he was turning to Haiji this episode to bring up his concerns with Nico. Yuki isn't an idiot, he has a way of getting out of it if he really wanted to. If Haiji was this big evil manipulator who was blackmailing everyone into it, or whatever, Yukiu wouldn't be treating Haiji as someone he can confide in about his concerns. Haiji is a people person, he's the contrast to Kakeru who is more insular. |
||||
|
||||
Gwydion
 Posts: 155 |
|
|||
|
Just to be clear, in case I'm one of those "some" being referred to above, my issue with Haiji doesn't stem from his character but how the show clearly wants the audience to side with him (and clearly it has worked for most).
I don't think people understand the extent of exactly how ludicrous the idea of Prince running in Hakone is. I am already giving the series a lot of leeway for the "power of anime" to be seen through the other untrained runners - if Prince were not in the equation, I'd accept the idea that they could all make it simply based on it being an anime and that's what anime do. The problem is that Haiji - and by extension the show itself - is trying to convince me that Prince is going to be capable of participating, and that's just too far out of the realms of realism for me to jump on board. Again, if this were something like Kuroko's Basketball where people seem to be unable to unlock superpowers then fine, but it's not being portrayed that way. Kakeru is not wrong to want Prince to back out "for the better of the team" because they literally should not be able to reach the goal Haiji has set for them with him as a competing member (though, again, he's a jerk for actually butting his nose in and saying it). I completely understand that Haiji seems to be a nice enough guy with a lot of optimism and therefore he is well liked both in the show and by the audience. I, personally, have no issues with that. The issue for me is that the show is framing it as if Haiji's stance of "we're all going to make it to Hakone because we are going to work hard together to achieve that goal no matter how much speed we lack" is obtainable and the one the audience should be agreeing with, and I simply can't do that. They DO need speed - without a good time, they won't make it, those are facts, and Prince can't give them that so it comes off as if Haiji isn't really taking it seriously. If in the end they DO all make it - even Prince - then clearly it is simply not the show for me. That's just too much suspension of disbelief in an otherwise non-superpowered show. If the show can pull off showing both Kakeru's cold logic and Haiji's unfounded optimism in a similar light, then I would be happy to change my mind, but currently it has picked a side, and it's the one I agree with far less. It's hard to like a character the show is pushing me to agree with when I don't agree. TL;DR: I don't dislike Haiji because I think he's bad or mean or even manipulative; I dislike him because the show portrays him as if we, the audience, should side with his view on things, and in the case of Prince especially, I can't do that. |
||||
|
||||
|
AA751
Posts: 72 |
|
|||
Sometimes it's not about the goal, it's about the journey. |
||||
|
||||
|
Gwydion
Posts: 155 |
|
|||
|
Not disagreeing with you, but Haiji is telling everyone that it is about the goal, and therefore Kakeru is focused on said goal. If it's not about the goal, then Haiji shouldn't be acting like going to Hakone is actually obtainable. Kakeru is taking the goal seriously because he thinks that's what Haiji is legitimately striving for. If he just wants them all to have a fun journey, then he should come out and say it to at least Kakeru - I get wanting a goal so the other's will feel motivated, but Kakeru doesn't need that. Going to Hakone is a legitimate goal he could try to achieve on the right team, so leading him on to think that this is a serious endeavor does him more harm than good. Again, that is why he is having outbursts - it is not an obtainable goal so long as Prince is on the team and he thinks that is counterintuitive to what Haiji says is his goal.
Yes, I'm aware this is anime so obviously Haiji isn't just gonna come out and say that he knows Hakone isn't a reasonable goal, but that makes it all the more frustrating because that could literally solve all of the problems he has with Kakeru. |
||||
|
||||
rahzel rose
 Subscriber Posts: 824 |
|
|||
I guess for me it's more that I did not go into this show expecting a super realistic true to life series about running. Was I expecting running (without superpowers) to be part of the show? Absolutely. But I came into it for the character drama and also the seiyuu. Maybe my comment earlier made it seem like I hated Kakeru, but I don't. I literally love all ten guys, whether they make it to Hakone or not. Of course it's crazy that Ouji would suddenly get fast enough to run in a national competition, but I don't really care? What made me sad more than anything is how Ouji stood up for Kakeru in episode 4 I believe it was, and then Kakeru turned it around on him and said the exact same thing Sasaki was saying. Now I don't think he's being unreasonable about it, but it was still a dick move especially since we see Ouji was just starting to step up his game, so to speak. Whether or not Kakeru knew about all of it, or if it even mattered and would have made a difference, we don't know. It might have also come up in their conversation if they hadn't been interrupted, but for him to decide on his own to tell Ouji to step down and not consult Haiji, the leader of the team, about it isn't right. I'm still waiting for Kakeru to talk to Haiji about his conversation with Fujioka, but he's an awkward and traumatized human being, so I'm sure things won't get there easily. We still have 15 episodes for everyone to work out their problems (or not). And it looks like there's going to be some more headbutting next episode, which I am down for. |
||||
|
||||
|
Gwydion
Posts: 155 |
|
|||
Since you quoted me, I'm just going to make it perfectly clear - I agree with you on this. I tried to make it obvious that I don't condone Kakeru's actions or behavior, but maybe that didn't come across. I, too, feel bad for Prince, and no, it was not Kakeru's place to speak to him like that. I am merely saying I understand his thinking, and that from a logical standpoint, he isn't wrong about Prince's (or even the team's) chances. I do like the show! I love character drama like this, really! lol I'm only focusing in on the whole "Kakeru vs Haiji" thing because it felt like the reviewer (and the show itself) wasn't even attempting to understand where Kakeru was coming from, and I felt that was unfair to him (again, much as I completely disagree with the way Kakeru acted about it). I am not trying to attack or excuse any of the characters or their behavior, simply trying to show why I don't think Kakeru's thinking deserves to be discredited while Haiji's is held on a pedestal. They both have faults, and I think it would be awesome to see them both addressed. So far, however, it has been completely one-sided. |
||||
|
||||
|
rahzel rose
Subscriber Posts: 824 |
|
|||
It has! I totally get that. (Which is also why I am dying for more.) It’s really interesting to me, though, just how polarizing the show seems to be. I’ve read through some comments on crunchyroll where people have been like “I hate Haiji he’s the worst!!!!!” and the others are like “Kakeru is awful he needs to go away!!!” so I’m looking forward to seeing where things go from here. |
||||
|
||||
|
Merida
Posts: 1945 |
|
|||
Sure, Kakeru could probably make it to Hakone with a good team, but where is he supposed to find that? Thing is, when Haiji met him he was far from being part of any team but quite literally running from his problems instead. We already got a glimpse of what those were about when we met his former teammate but that's probably just the tip of the iceberg. So, what i'm trying to say is, i don't believe that Kakeru's outbursts are only because of him being frustrated with Haiji or the team... And i'm not saying that Haiji doesn't have any problems! I suspect that he sees bits of his former self in Kakeru, before he got his injury and that's part of why he got so angry during their conversation. He's also most likely not being really honest (to himself) about the severity of his injury and how much of a handicap it might become in an actual race. But well, since sports anime rarely inspires such a vivid discussion, the show seems to do something right at the very least. 
|
||||
|
||||
|
Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11354 |
|
|||
|
Did I miss something? I don't get what Kakeru is thinking. Bottom line is you need 10 people to run the Hakone Ekiden, and they don't have a replacement for Ouji, even if they all agreed he should quit. There is no "quitting for the good of the team," because if he or any of them quit for any reason, game over, there is no team. Everybody, just go do your individual races if you still want to, but Hakone's right out. Is that what he's angling for - to be freed from the team so he can go run his individual races? oO
One interesting aspect of the race, which the series might make use of (assuming they somehow make it by the grace of anime godmothers), is that if a runner does not arrive at his checkpoint within 20 min. of the lead runner's arrival at that station, the next runner on the team can begin his leg, with time it takes the runner to eventually check in added to the team score. I.e., if Ouji took a long time to get to the checkpoint, the remaining runners don't have to wait for him, though he'll kill their score. On the other hand, if any of the ten runners fail to reach their checkpoint at all, the whole team will be disqualified (the remaining runners can still run, but it won't count). So as far as completing the race, any one of them could be the weak link, with Haiji actually being the most likely due to his knee. Anyway, Haiji's known about Ouji's faults all along, so I'm thinking he's got something in mind to deal with it. He's not a fool, nor does he seem to be delusional, or so focused on the goal he can't see the path anymore. |
||||
|
||||
|
meiam
Posts: 3442 |
|
|||
|
It's not so much realism as it is a consistency problem. Kakeru exist in a world where achieving time that would allow someone to qualify takes years of hard work, he knows that because that's what happened to him. Haiji and prince (if the show does goes toward them running the marathon) live in a world of anime logic, where someone can reach the required level in a few months while also attending university. The show then act like Kakeru is in the wrong and Haiji is right, but it's the shows fault for having these character that essentially come from different world butt head. If Kakeru also lived in the anime world, he wouldn't be having this conversation because he'd know that it's possible to achieve the required results in a few months.
There's also the problem of Haiji "take a train" comment being complete non sense. For one, if Kakeru really was all about speed, he'd be running the 100 m dash, he's not. For two, you obviously can't compete in the marathon in a train. This is obvious and Kakeru could easily point that out (along with Haiji hypocrisy) but the show is purposefully not having him do that. |
||||
|
||||
|
Merida
Posts: 1945 |
|
|||
Okay, that actually gave me a good laugh, thanks for that. Also, Kakeru "not living in the anime world" made me wonder if sports anime isekai could be a new genre. 
@Gina: yeah, there's no way Prince is going to be replaced by some mystery runner we haven't even met, yet all of a sudden...and i doubt Kakeru has any runner friends (or any friends at all), he could just easily recruit.... |
||||
|
||||
|
MF65
Posts: 90 |
|
|||
Finally someone said it! THANK YOU! I feel like folks here are grossly underestimating both the show and Haiji. He's been wanting to run in the Ekiden for years. He's been planning this race and carefully picking up the members of this team for a very, VERY long time. He was cunning enough to get everyone on board. Why would he risk losing everything he worked so hard for if he didn't have some sort of plan regarding Ouji? I mean, Haiji IS a great guy and it's easy to see that he cares deeply for everyone in the team and is genuinely happy to see them improving. But I don't think he's naive enough to believe that everything will sort itself out thanks to the "power of the friendship". I also don't think he would get Ouji on the team just because he's desperate for a 10th member. He already waited a long time for Kakeru to show up. What's a couple more months? To just simply assume that Ouji will magically get the necessary results out of nowhere is, honestly, insulting towards the show and everything it's done right so far. Also, not sure where that "Kakeru just wants to achieve Haiji's goal" argument came from. Did I miss something? From the very beginning he's been doing his own thing, focusing only on improving himself and not bothering with the rest of the team. What I saw in the last couple of episodes was a teenage boy who was convinced he was better than he actually is and then had to face the hard reality when he found out there's some people who run faster than him. Instead of focusing on why that happened and how to improve (the show makes it obvious that whatever it is he's doing now is not working), he decides to lash out on his teammates instead. Mind you, I like Kakeru. I think this whole conflict has been brewing since the very first episode and it makes for great drama, but he did the exact same thing he got angry at his previous teammate for doing just a couple of episodes ago. He's taking a big, fat dump on everyone else's hard work just because he can't deal with his frustration. How that translates into "he's upset because he is taking Haiji's goal seriously" is beyond me but, who knows, maybe the show actually succeed in brainwashing me to side with Haiji ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
||||
|
||||
|
meiam
Posts: 3442 |
|
|||
I mean... maybe he has a giant stash of drugs and steroid and he's going to force Prince to take those, that definitely would be an interesting way for the show to develop. Otherwise it always come to the same problem. If people could achieve results that quickly, everyone would be doing it. |
||||
|
||||
|
rahzel rose
Subscriber Posts: 824 |
|
|||
You always have the wildest ideas and theories. I don’t think that would make for an interesting show at all. Besides, all the signs point to Haiji not being that type of person. If anything, just to fancy the idea, the only person I could possibly see resorting to drugs would be Nico-chan Senpai because he’s so self-conscious about his size and his weight. But even then that’s a bit of a stretch. |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group