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Manga Answerman - What Makes A Great English Translation?

whiskeyii wrote:

For years, Sailor Moon's first "real" weapon was translated as the "Moon Stick", because "Stick" (the English word) was used in the original Japanese. However, "stick" had (from a Japanese pronunciation of the word), connotations with romantic words like "suki" (the same "suki" used for "daisuki" or "I love you") and gave a more dreamlike impression than what a native English speaker would glean from "stick", which feels more mundane and ordinary. The Eternal version chose to translate "Moon Stick" as "Moon Wand" to try and capture that magical, dreamy impression for English-reading audiences as well.

Those kinds of changes are extremely annoying, especially in anime since you clearly hear the voice actors say one thing but the subs insist it's something else. Plus it seems a bit hypocritical given the disdain for the old English translation. By the same logic most American's don't know what Buddhist religious stuff is, so renaming Burning Manadala made sense to get the intention across.

Oh, and I know it's a bit old, but y'all familiar with the first translation of Azumanga Daioh? What do you think about their decision to change English language/classes to Spanish? While not as drastic as Phoenix Wright's donuts, it's the same kind of thing--trying to make the subject matter more "relatable" to American audiences?

The Yen Press edition of Yotsuba&? translates the “honyakuka / konnyakuka” mix-up as “translator' and “trash loader.”

For that matter, why should the expectations of a manga or anime translation be any different from what we expect from the translation of a movie or a literary novel? I want to see what the original author was actually *trying* to say and the specific words they wanted to use, not an approximate English equivalent.

I also see this (and it drives me NUUUUUTS) when the English word "bitch" is used in Japanese, and it gets translated into a 1:1 English equivalent (i.e., "bitch") when the implications of its use in Japanese is actually more like "slut".

I prefer a more natural translation, one that sticks to the spirit of the original Japanese, and doesn't twist itself into knots to try and directly translate. There's nothing worse (in my opinion) then coming across a clunky translation and being pulled out of the story to wonder what the the original Japanese was. Good translation notes can also help balance the difference between literal and poetic translations.

Perhaps it's because I understand Japanese, Korean and a bit of Chinese that I may have a bias and am able to convert literal translations in my head and deal with them slightly better, but I cannot tolerate rewrites even if it's "for the sake of fluidity." It's a poor excuse for "translators" to believe they are above the work and decide they can write better material, and more often then not, it backfires later on when the part that was previously written out becomes the core piece for an arc.

They're two different things, but it's the line between isn't as clear cut as you make it sound, and translation in an entertainment industry like anime or games is often going to include a mix of both. When I was translating video games, I was expected to do everything from straightforward translations (translating the time and contents of a new event in a live game), to heavy localisation (achievement names in Japanese are often simple and reflect the actions needed to unlock it, in English it's common to include jokes and references, or literary flourishes to suit the tone of the game). A good professional translator knows when something needs substantial rewriting to work, and when it's fine as it is.

Well said.
I can't speak for all readers or subtitle watchers, but I enjoy learning new Japanese terms when I come across them in manga or anime. I often break out the dictionary whenever I hear a character speak a word that I know was highly localized in its translation. I find that sort of thing to be fun.

God, I want to be reborn in another world where no one ever confuses humor with pop culture references. Please. Please. Please.

Oh, and I know it's a bit old, but y'all familiar with the first translation of Azumanga Daioh? What do you think about their decision to change English language/classes to Spanish? While not as drastic as Phoenix Wright's donuts, it's the same kind of thing--trying to make the subject matter more "relatable" to American audiences?

It was a choice I can understand, professionally, but it's really annoyed me for a long time (and still annoys me as I've still got the books). Similarly the "varsity" terminology in the Cross Game series. In both cases, I (part of the intended American audience) was *more* confused simply because I couldn't relate. I never learned Spanish in school, and I could imagine that many Japanese schoolchildren would be interested in Spanish, either; and not being crazy into sports, I wasn't familiar with the varsity terminology (whereas the Japanese terms more directly translated to things like first-string, second-string, etc. whose meaning is rather self-evident). At what point does Americanization go too far?

One of the reasons I'm not a fan of omitting Onee-chan is that it signals to the viewer that the character is talking to his sister. If you just use the name, that nuance (or sometimes important info) is lost.

I think a good general rule of thumb when translating/localizing something, is to say the translated sentence out loud. If it sounds natural and sounds like something you would hear in a native English conversation, then you're good to go. If not, then usually you'll notice right away, since it will often sound clunky, stiff, cringey, unnatural, or all of the above.

Ideally, a translated work should have no traces of the original language left in it, save for a few exceptions. Those exceptions include loan words that already exist in the English dictionary (sushi, dojo, sensei, etc), or cultural items such as the names of food, places, books, movies, etc.

And the Japanese words... It really depends on your audience + if you have room for a translation notes section. I was really impressed by the standards of Del Rey manga, with the great translation notes there.
However.
If you're going to translate a game at a "non-otaku audience" (i.e. gamers who don't like "weaboo stuff") you need to make it more accessible. For example, Nakama. Only the super hardcore fans are going to know what that word means. By leaving it, you alienate a huge part of your market, and that's a darn shame. Because, had you not scared them away, they could have actually found they LIKED the series.

By the way, there are definitely plenty of parts in the Anglosphere where sashimi is not commonly understood. Sushi, karate, and ninja, yes. But not sashimi. Not even rice balls, though if the setting is pretty obviously Japanese or Japanese-inspired, it'd make sense. I can understand why 4Kids went in the direction of "doughnut" though, as the setting isn't obviously Japanese, and they were airing this in places where you won't find anything to eat more Japanese than a California roll.

Even if you've never had or eaten them before, or have no clue what they are, the term is self-explanatory. The setting of Pokemon might not be obviously Japanese, but it IS obvious that the food in question is not doughnuts.

I don't get how people don't see the world of Pocket Monsters as Japanese. The first four generations are specifically set in regions based on Japanese locals, the characters all have Japanese names, there are Japanese festivals, they use yen as money, they wear Japanese clothing and all sorts of things. If the argument was more "4kids removed all the Japanese culture from the show but did't bother to edit the rice balls to sandwhiches or cookies like they did in later episodes" then okay.

That's why I find it interesting that in Splatoon 2, in a software update, they rewrote Marina's lines (Iida in the original Japanese) so that she would come across as gentler to Pearl (Hime in Japanese). Off the Hook, in Japanese, mirrors a manzai comedy routine, but manzai is largely unfamiliar in the west and also quite unappealing. (Certainly, I can't stand manzai. Something about manzai just makes me angry, and the same goes in Japanese fiction when the straight man yells at the other characters about what they're doing wrong.) The way it was rewritten, initially, put it closer to more familiar routines in the west, namely like that of Laurel and Hardy or Abbott and Costello. Hence, it's a change I regret a bit because I found it made Off the Hook less funny, just that it's interesting that the Nintendo audience is growing more...how should I put it...knowledgeable in Japanese culture, so they demand something more literal? NOA Treehouse has been moving toward the literal end of the spectrum with time, even those where Nate Bihldorff is involved. I'm guessing never again will we have a reference to Deliverance stuck into a Mario game, even if that reference is so well-implemented that most people will never recognize it as a reference.

Take a look at British shows. Do they change ‘torch’ to ‘flashlight’

The thing that bothers me most about that particular example is that there is an obvious disconnect (read: error) in the translation because any viewer can look at the screen (or manga) and see that the characters are clearly not eating "doughnuts". You don't have to know what onigiri is in order to tell that the word doughnut doesn't match what you're actually seeing. What's wrong with "rice ball"? Even if you've never had or eaten them before, or have no clue what they are, the term is self-explanatory. The setting of Pokemon might not be obviously Japanese, but it IS obvious that the food in question is not doughnuts. That sort obvious "mistake" really ruins the illusion, at least in my experience.

I remember a similar gripe when Tenchi Muyo was broadcast on Cartoon Network--the same release that was infamous for its digipaint swimsuits. They didn't want to have the characters drinking alcohol (sake), so they changed the dubbing to "tea". Again, the change was obvious since the characters doing the drinking still acted like they were intoxicated, became visibly flushed, and anyone who had been to a Japanese restaurant or had a little Japanese movie experience would instantly recognize the distinctive sake bottle shape, as well as the serving flasks and the special cups as well. Perhaps an actual kid wouldn't have noticed, but any adult would certainly have noticed that something was up with that translation. Even if you have no clue what a sake bottle looks like the actions and appearance of the characters were a giveaway. In my opinion it's a big mistake when the visuals clearly and obviously contradict what the text or dialogue states.

I don't get how people don't see the world of Pocket Monsters as Japanese. The first four generations are specifically set in regions based on Japanese locals, the characters all have Japanese names, there are Japanese festivals, they use yen as money, they wear Japanese clothing and all sorts of things. If the argument was more "4kids removed all the Japanese culture from the show but did't bother to edit the rice balls to sandwhiches or cookies like they did in later episodes" then okay.

Same thing with leafy sea dragon's comments how Nintendo's products are made with global appeal. That might have been Nintendo of America's goal throughout the years but there's plenty of Japanese-ness to Nintendo throughout the years that's been present in their games across the decades. Don't mistake the localized version of games like Kunio-kun (River City Ransom) or the fact popular games like Famicom Tantei Club never came out in the west as their lack of existence. Games like Xenoblade and Fire Emblem would have stayed Japan-only if NoA was still like it was during the 80s and 90s. Fire Emblem especially has been there since the Famicom days. The way I see it is if these games truly were global, you wouldn't see huge waves of localization changes and censorship in them.

Treehouse has been getting a lot of backlash lately for their not very subtle liberties.
As audiences come more accostumed to being in contact with different cultures, removing their sensibilities becomes more upsetting for them.

I don't know if I did before, but I wanted to complain about rewrites not in sentences and jokes but of entire characters... which rather than on manga and anime it happens more often in videogames.
The characters that I had in mind the most were Neptune first and... precisely Iida/Marina second.
In Marina's case, for once I've had a lifetime's worth of witty banter with Hollywood action movies. But in second place, in her lines Marina often came across as outright mean. You could say she was a smug jerk. I didn't like Marina much.
That's why I was surprised to see translations of many of her Japanese dialogues and while she is indeed a tsukkomi, many of her lines were softer, sweet and caring. And she is kind of a fangirl for Pearl (although you could see some of that in English). I liked Iida better.
So for me, that localization to make her dialogue "more funny" was a net loss.

So I'm pretty glad of this shift on people's preferences since it aligns better with mine and it gives more room for the sensibilities of different cultures to shine.

For The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, yes they did in the American print of the book.

As for substituting liquor for tea, I think there's a different reason behind that, in that I'm pretty sure consumption of alcoholic beverages are not allowed to be depicted during the hours that Tenchi Muyo! showed on Toonami. That is, it's not that they (as in Toonami) didn't WANT to, but that they COULDN'T legally do so. I definitely remember 4Kids struggling on this front a few times too, and they created several workarounds depending on the context, such as calling it "strong stuff" or "spritzers." Obviously, this law had not always been around (nor the similar ban on smoking), but I definitely remember seeing a complete disappearance of drinking alcohol in programming expected to have a lot of children watching. They had a grandfather exception so stuff like Looney Tunes could get away with it, but that eventually was gone too.

Oh, I agree completely regarding the reasoning behind it. My point was that regardless of the motivation the resulting inaccuracy in translation sticks out like a sore thumb. You can call it "tea", but anyone (other than a naive child, perhaps) can clearly see that they are drinking alcohol. I was just using it as an example of situations where there is an obvious disconnect between the translation and the art. You're right that they might have been forced to do that for legal reasons, or perhaps chose to do it in order to avoid offending parents, but the point remains that the change or inaccuracy is obviously present.

I don't know how the Japanese versions of the games look like as far as their currency goes, but the versions I play have a "P" denoted instead of a "Y." As the name of the currency has never been mentioned once, most western fans call them "Pokédollars."