Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Zombie Land Saga
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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That """rumor""" was literally misinformation spread by an American channer on Twitter pretending to be Japanese. Like, someone with less than 100 followers whose statement got spread around as "true" with no research into their statements whatsoever, just because right-leaning weebs were so desperate to reinforce their party line that no LGBT anything exists in Japanese media. Just straight-up lying. Multiple native Japanese accounts have also corroborated by now that the character is transgender, and also that transgender is a term and an identity that is recognized in Japan. |
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Lord Oink
Posts: 876 |
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Left-leaning anime fans have the habit of labeling any crossdresser or mistaken-for-a-girl character as trans; even when the show or creator says otherwise. The whole point of Aozora is the main girls trying to figure out if she has a penis ever since they overheard her allegedly lying to a boy to break up with him. To assert her as transgender pretty much misses the entire point of the character.
Unless 男の娘 means transgender now, the Japanese fanbase is calling Lily "otoko no musume", not transgender. In fact, it was a prediction among the Japanese fanbase Lily was a boy as far back as October. Ever since this episode aired, people are going back to the original Twitter person who predicted Lily was a boy and calling them a genius. Even Japanese fanpages are using 男の娘. If these alleged "multiple native Japanese accounts" are calling her transgender, they are definitely in the minority. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15457 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Are you sure about that buddy? I consider myself part of the fairly left-leaning anime fandom, often finding myself asking a question if a character might be trans, but not coming to the conclusion if the evidence is not quite there. I was really into Asobi Asobase, but never came to a conclusion that Aozora is trans. I was quite sure Aozora was biologically male, all evidence pointing as such, but the other side of Aozora's personality did not quite point if they actually identify as a girl, rather than simply putting on the face of one. There were too many unknowns, especially for the show. To say all left leaning anime fans jumped on it, you were likely seeing the fringes, which can exist in any alignment. You don't think there are a large amount on the right that refuse to believe transgender is even a thing? Or the people who were frustrated that the show did not give a hard answer. Especially since I think that it pushed who Aozora was interested in. Blend S had some similar frustrations, because while Hideri apparently wrote female on work application, and without thinking was going to go into a women's bathroom, a number of the characters more strongly treat Hideri as a boy. From my understanding, the part where Hideri says they are a boy, could be more directly linked to saying the biological fact, rather than identity. In the end, I would probably would side more on the male crossdresser since it went more of the way they acted was largely the idol persona that Hideri wore and rarely removed except for things like the cockroach incident. But in the end it did feel a bit inconclusive. Lily is a different case, because she let out her biological gender to the group, while insisting that her female identity is her real one, with her old name being something she threw away. Those such as myself, that are on the left-leaning side, do not just recklessly throw the word around. I don't recall being so certain in saying so for an anime character, since Alice in Chivalry of a Failed Knight, who despite being clearly biologically male had a female roommate and used the female changing room, although I think still had to use the male washroom while in public.
Is "otoko no musume" exclusive to male crossdressers? All it may point to is a general reaction to such people, just like how many of the Western audience liked to use a certain word as if it is Japanese related, when it in fact is not, watch the video I posted earlier from ThePedanticRomantic. The Wikipedia article of "otokonoko", which seems to be used interchangeably in the article with "otoko no musume" says: "The concept of otokonoko does not directly correspond to a particular sexual identity or gender identity. Otokonoko may be of any sexual orientation." This would seem to imply that it also include trans, since that would be under gender identity, and the phrase is more of a classification of biology (sex), rather than gender. From my understanding, a word like transgender itself has some place in the Japanese language, but is not really well known, that it would be unlikely to turn up in the fandom like this show's. And who's to say the bulk of discussion would be even correct? There is nothing in the show that says Lily identifies as a boy, it went out of its way to say that she belongs in their girl band, that she is no longer Masao, and it matters not what is attached. By English definition of the term, that is transgender. |
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Lord Oink
Posts: 876 |
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Radical left, then. Or whatever term you want to use to describe those types of people.
In theory? I suppose it could. Although there are more specific words for trans people in Japan that are used. ニューハーフ (newhalf) is the most common one. トランスジェンダー (transgender) is also a growing term and replacing newhalf for some people as they interact with western people more. オカマ okama is also sometimes used, but it's usually used in a derogatory slur context so I doubt any genuine person would use that word to describe themselves. If you're looking specifically for the word to describe a person or character though, you'd traditionally use newhalf. Some people might use otakonoko, but it's usually used in the context of cross-dressing. My call would be "possible, but unlikely" (and just for the record, that certain slang word does actually exist in Japan and can be found in the original Japanese version of works and used in the Japanese fandoms, so that video you linked to is misinformed in that regard)
I'm not saying Japanese fans are right or wrong, I was just pointing out JacobC's post that the Japanese side seems to have unanimously decided Lily was being called transgender in Japan and only 'right leaning weebs' were insisting she wasn't was definitely not the same experience I had. |
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Crisha
Moderator
 Posts: 4290 |
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Lord Oink, stop. You have a history of going into topics dealing with anything LGBT and downplaying/criticizing those elements. You have been warned on this before. If you continue, you will be put on moderation.
As for everyone else, the mods have requested the discussion to move on. We'll delete posts again if discussion continues. |
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Cab329
Posts: 132 |
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New episode was pretty darn good. Though I now feel really old as my first thought once it revealed Saki died in 1997, was “that was only 11 years ago...wait”
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steelmirror
 Posts: 342 |
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I thought Saki's episode was fine, though other than a few moments unfortunately a bit forgettable. The first scene where the new generation of delinquents tried to shake down Sakura and Lily was amazing, I was cracking up pretty much the whole time. The scene with the girls pissing off Kotaro in the car was pretty fun too.
The best moment in the episode was the hair sported by the girl opposing Saki in their flashback to the original game of deadly chicken. The only thing so far that can rival Tae for Most Legendary status. Other than that it was pretty even and predictable, the things that you'd expect to happen happened. Not one of my favorite eps so far, but pleasant enough. I'm looking forward to learning more about Mizuno next week. |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15457 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I thought that it was amazing also. Although I had to stop a bit from the laughing turning into coughing, flaring up some breathing problems I have been having lately. Double edge sword of being funny. |
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steelmirror
Posts: 342 |
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I forgot to mention another part of the episode I loved. At the very end, during the performance, 'those two guys' who have been fans of the girls since the first ep looked around at the crowd, full of people completely different from them and completely different from the folks that had been enjoying Franchouchou previously, and were like "yeah, this is what Franchouchou is all about". I thought that was actually really cool, arguably more affecting than anything that happened in Saki's storyline the whole episode. Especially great given how strained some of the discussions around this show have been, recently. Yeah, in the end it's a goofy show about cute (undead) girls doing cute (character-focused) things, but the people making it clearly care, it's well put-together, and it has a good heart. I wish there were more shows like it. |
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Yuvelir
 Posts: 1545 |
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Saki will never die, the freaking legend. Not even if you kill her. Twice.
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Yaafm
Posts: 31 |
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You know. Watching these girls deaths makes me sad, knowing that there future was cut short, but whats really bugging me is especially Saki's episode with not being able to say anything to those they cared about.
Lily's episode, in no way will you convince me her dad doesnt know. He knows his daughter is dead, but -at least I am- sure he knows Lily is in some way his daughter, but that they cannot be a family again. The ending and the near slip ups in the episode really made me think that. Saki's episode was not nearly as strong in that regard which actually made me sad. Her friend saw Saki in the pose and the statement about not dying, but when Saki replied "whos that" or whatever, it just seemed to end it there. How the hell would you not reconize 100% your best friend, who died, if she's exactly the same in front of you. I wish they had put a bit more into it, like if the tamogachi was on the key chain and a comment "The tamogachi is still alive!". Or something similar, maybe a nickname slip up that she lets slide. Its basically happy closure for those who lived to a degree, but I guess it would be sappy/silly if it happend to all those who had living relatives. Would of liked to see it in Saki's story though. |
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Yuvelir
Posts: 1545 |
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The emotional connection was indeed lacking. Almost felt like the episode was just filling a quota.
I think Reiko understood Saki IS Saki but couldn't admit it. So it would have been nice if she just wordlessly gave her back her Tamagotchi since she was just holding onto it until the dare was over. And over it was, as a zombie. |
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vonPeterhof
Posts: 729 |
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Um, that punch at the end makes it pretty clear that Reiko recognized the person in front of her as Saki. It's not exactly the kind of punch you'd throw at a complete stranger (in that case, the first thing you'd be screaming at them wouldn't be about the danger to their life, but about them wrecking your bike
 ), and the emotion behind it was clearly what she'd been holding in for two decades since her friend recklessly threw her life away. Yeah, it does get immediately passed over to wrap up the mother-daughter drama and the Tamagotchi is sort of wasted, but saving Maria and helping her reconnect to her mother did work as a sort of atonement for the pain Saki's death caused to Reiko, so I don't see how they failed to connect.
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15457 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I think that it fits that Saki really was not focusing on making things right with Reiko, but helping her friend with her daughter, which Saki was aware was part of Reiko's life goals from before. Saki already knew what she did was stupid, that it threw away what she had with her best friend. The best thing she could do, would be to stop Maria from making similar mistakes, and show that guts can be channelled in other ways. Something Saki pretty much learned from Sakura.
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Panino Manino
 Posts: 734 |
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#9
This episode was funny, but it had a lot of missed opportunities with Saki and Reiko. Looks like they didn't wanted to repeat the same emotional experience from the last time. |
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