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EP. REVIEW: Tsurune


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Dian Z





PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:15 am Reply with quote
Kokuryu Daimao wrote:
More archery trivia.

Another interesting thing that I like that was more shown than directly told was when Onogi was treating Kisaragi's arm.
Like all martial arts, injuries can occur if done incorrectly.
In all Archery, one of the biggest causes of harm is from the bowstring hitting the bow arm upon release.
The simplest solution is to wear some sort of arm-guard or bracer. Those leather arm bracers that are often seen being worn in medieval or fantasy based settings, those weren't just fashion statements, they were worn to protect the archers Bow arm so that they could fire arrows consistently when needed.

In Kyudo there is no arm-guard, which is part of why they focus a lot on form, because if done right you shouldn't hurt yourself.
However, protective gear exists for the String hand, mainly in the form of the Yugake/Gloves they wear.

The other protective piece that everyone has seen but has not been mentioned by anyone is the chest protector that all the girls are wearing.
Its called a Muneate, and its purpose is pretty straightforward.
If you can imagine how painful the bowstring hitting Nanao's arm might have been, its much worse for women if the string should hit their breast.

Additional Random Trivia:
The mythological Amazons were said to have removed one of their breasts in order to solve that dilemma.


Oh, thank you for that. I don't do Kyudo (yet, hopefully), but I just begin learning local traditional archery just sometime ago (no protective piece), and kept hitting my arm with the bowstring, lol. It takes sometime to recover after lots of shooting (hitting my arm everytime). When looking at Kisaragi, I wondered, so they experience such thing as well.
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AA751



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
Posts: 72
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:16 am Reply with quote
Dian Z wrote:
AA751 wrote:
Merida wrote:
Ruri Lee wrote:

Personally, the novel gives off a very different feeling from Free.


Okay, since novel readers keep insisting that it's "not like Free!" (even though people seem to have pretty much ceased to compare the shows after the first ep...), how exactly is it so "very different"?


Well just look at the protagonist. Minato, he suffers from 'target panic' and although he loves archery he's found it difficult to overcome it. He's managed to get back into it, because by chance he came across Masa-san who made him realise his love. Minato is back in with the kyodo, but he's still hasn't overcome his target panic.

The protagonist of Haru was obsessed with water, and only cared about swimming Free and wasn't interested in competition. Umm, my memory is fussy after what happens next because I haven't seen it in forever and I found it boring, but..in the end he discovers the joy of friendship and everyone lives happily ever after? Idk, something something yay friendship, something something boys being naked blah blah something.

Haru doesn't or didn't have a mentor, and Haru didn't have any severe trauma or an accident/and death of a mother in his past which led him to have anxiety about archery. Haru was kind of a distant character from everyone, whilst Minato is pretty angry at times.

Honestly, I can't think of anything about Free (from my fuzzy memory) that's like Tsurune except it's about a sport (entirely different sports SO DIFFERENT), and it has boys in a sport. Which covers every sports anime ever.


Overall, I think Free is more 'colorful', over the top, comical, energetic, some things along those lines (and more straightforward and fulfilling as BL undertone title, as it seems intended to be). While Tsurune is more low profile, calm, modest, a tad bit closer to realistic representation in dealing with emotional problems. sort of episodes.


I would agree with this. I would also add that I think the emotional problems of the characters are more complex and harder to fix than Free! seemed to be, which adds to the realism. I am hoping that although the anime has changed some features, that it will keep that complexity. I am disappointed they dropped one thing. Novel spoiler: spoiler[the physical fight between Seiya and Minato. I think because they were afraid that it would make Seiya look bad and unlikable in hurting Minato, when I just think it made him look very immature and unable to deal with Minato's problems because he's only a child]
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Ruri Lee



Joined: 18 Oct 2017
Posts: 28
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:12 am Reply with quote
AA751 wrote:
Ruri Lee wrote:

Masa-san is a bit more of a playful adult in the novel, and his scenes with Minato were more ..not sure how to put this....intimate? --- Minato spends a lot of private time with Masa-san, and takes great observational care. He really reveres him not only as an archer but also as a role model. The diction choice is quite questionable, so you can probably interpret it in various ways.


And the diction choice, is....very interesting. I think I interpreted Minatos as having a crush in on Masa-san, and I think the anime does try to convey that too, but the feel is changed a little. Idk. Did I mention I miss the poetry?


The writing was very floral... I enjoyed it for a change of pace. It suits the theme of healing and meeting alongside kyudo quite nicely...
I think it's partly questionable because the brunt of Minato's interactions with Masa-san takes place during archery or around an archery setting. So for example, when Masaki touches him lightly to adjust him for positioning, Minato internally comments that he doesn't want to forget the sensation of Masa's heat. I took it that he was trying to remember the sensation for archery's sake but because the wording is so sensual it makes me want to double-take. Although really, it could go either way.

On a side note...
I haven't read the 2nd volume yet, I still have to buy it, but the 1st volume is pretty short. So short that it might barely meet a 10-ep cour. As a result, episode 4 is mostly anime-added content... (similar events, just expanded). I can see why they're adding in extra content and switching up details around a bit but it makes me wonder if they couldve gotten a stronger reaction if they stuck with the more aggressive parts of the book. :'D... spoiler[Like that fight scene we missed out on.]
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#HayamiLover



Joined: 22 Jul 2018
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Location: Eastern Europe
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:42 am Reply with quote
Only I had the feeling that, instead of the intended Free receiver, we got a kind of male version of Hibike? I myself am a guy and I understand most of their emotions or motivation, but I see an unusually many Class S vibes to describe this than the usual shoujo with all-male cast can afford. Damn, at some point I was even convinced that Minato and Seya are the local versions of Reina and Kumiko, respectively.
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AA751



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
Posts: 72
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:16 pm Reply with quote
The training camp segment is so different from the novel its basically a different story and I am deeply disappointed because the novel touches on heavier themes while the anime was just fluff in comparison. They shafted Seiya character and the conflict between Seiya and Kaito turned into a conflict between Minato and Kaito and I'm like....don't get the adaptation choice.

Anyway read the novel. It's got better atmosphere and focuses more on kyodo.
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rahzel rose
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Joined: 19 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:03 pm Reply with quote
AA751 wrote:
The training camp segment is so different from the novel its basically a different story and I am deeply disappointed because the novel touches on heavier themes while the anime was just fluff in comparison. They shafted Seiya character and the conflict between Seiya and Kaito turned into a conflict between Minato and Kaito and I'm like....don't get the adaptation choice.

Anyway read the novel. It's got better atmosphere and focuses more on kyodo.


I went ahead and read the novel because I was getting impatient waiting week to week (and I totally don't mind spoilers), and you're right in how completely different this episode was. I'm also a little disappointed in how the training camp was handled, but I think at this point for me it's best to think of the two as separate stories. There's still the same basic theme, but the anime is definitely a more liberal adaption as opposed to a faithful one.

Overall, I'm still enjoying the anime, but it'll be interesting to see what they do with Kirisaki's introduction now that the story has diverged quite a bit. I'm excited to see Shu show up, though. Especially with OnoKen voicing him.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11339
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:18 am Reply with quote
Imagine my surprise when this episode answered a question I've long had about Kikyo in Inuyasha! Every so often they'd show her after she'd shot an arrow with the bow turned so the string was in front of her fist, as if she'd fired it backwards, and sometimes with the bowstring on the opposite side of her arm from where she could possibly have shot from, like this:



I never understood why they'd draw it like that. Now I see it was to illustrate the perfection of her form, and what a cool archer she was! Although I'm still not sure I understand why it's cool. Very Happy
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Merida



Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 1945
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:00 am Reply with quote
Why do anime twins always seem to be kind of obnoxious or stupid (or both)?!I already like Shuu, though and am looking forward to him and Minato meeting again. I'd also like to find out more about Masa's relationship with his grandfather.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11339
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:30 pm Reply with quote
Merida wrote:
Why do anime twins always seem to be kind of obnoxious or stupid (or both)?!I

Sounds like a question for Answerman! Smile
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Kokuryu Daimao



Joined: 04 Sep 2017
Posts: 115
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:52 am Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
Imagine my surprise when this episode answered a question I've long had about Kikyo in Inuyasha! Every so often they'd show her after she'd shot an arrow with the bow turned so the string was in front of her fist, as if she'd fired it backwards, and sometimes with the bowstring on the opposite side of her arm from where she could possibly have shot from, like this:



I never understood why they'd draw it like that. Now I see it was to illustrate the perfection of her form, and what a cool archer she was! Although I'm still not sure I understand why it's cool. Very Happy

Why is it cool?
Well according to some I've talked with, the Bow turn is a reflection of the archer's form and their ability to balance all the different little things that goes into firing that arrow.
I mentioned before how some people injure their bow arms with the string and that in other forms of archery an arm-bracer is used to protect their bow arm, but in Kyudo, there are no arm-bracers.

This is because if done right, the bow turn swings the bow string around the inner arm and comes to rest on the back of the arm, thus negating the need to protect the bow arm with a bracer. If the form is right, then this occurs almost absentmindedly, and that has a certain coolness about it.

Its like how you know who the cool guy is in the story when they land that no-look move while staring into the eyes of the love-interest.

That scene was also a good example of muscle memory.
Ryohei is still a beginner, thus he has no established form. Because of this, Masa had an easier time of just telling him how to hold the bow and shoot which resulted in Ryohei performing the bow turn without him realizing it.
Kaito, the more experienced archer, already has a firing form, a previously established routine he does to shoot an arrow. So its actually harder for Masa to teach him the bow turn, because Kaito's body is acting faster than he can think. Kaito's body is short cutting to the previously established routine before Kaito's brain can input the adjustments.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11339
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:40 am Reply with quote
I think i kind of get all that, but what puzzles me is how that came to be considered perfection of the form. The bow and arrow is first and foremost a weapon, and it seems like it would be a distinct handicap in battle (or against an animal that didn't drop from the first arrow) to have to whip the bow back around before you could fire off your next shot. Smile

I suspect the bow turn was not always something to be admired, but over time, as the art overshadowed the practical, it happened to exceptional archers and thus became cool.
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Kokuryu Daimao



Joined: 04 Sep 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:48 pm Reply with quote
Its actually really easy to whip the bow string back in place to fire another arrow. All you're doing is just rotating it around its center which can be done with the flick of a wrist. In the time it takes to draw out another arrow you'd already have the bow string realigned.

Since Kyudo is a Martial Art, there are aspect that are definitely more on the 'Art' side, and one could consider the bow turn to be on the more artistic side.
However, the bow turn is unique to Kyudo because as Masa mentioned in the Anime the bow turn, or Yugaeri as it is called, is something that happens naturally when one fires an arrow properly and cleanly.
The reason for that is a small physics/anatomy-based lecture similar to how baseball people talk about the nature of the Curveball or the Knuckleball

But its origin is rooted in the practical aspect of shooting an arrow while avoiding injury to the bow arm, thus allowing the archer to fire consistently in battle.
Also there is the fact that the Yumi is a longbow, which is intended for long range combat. Normally by the time the first arrow hits the target, you could easily reposition and have another arrow nocked and ready.
Now if you wanted to do some speed-shooting, like what was displayed in that new Robin hood film, I'd go with a different bow/style than Kyudo. Probably a modern recurve with a Mediterranean draw, but that would be going off topic.

Its just that in Kyudo everything is deliberately slowed down to show off their form. Because its that form that could eventually decide who is better in a competition setting.
If 2 archers both hit all their targets, then they go into "Who shot it better" and it could come down to one held their bow too tightly and the other yugaeri.
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Kokuryu Daimao



Joined: 04 Sep 2017
Posts: 115
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:41 am Reply with quote
Ep. 7
So far the series continues to be visually cool and I'm liking the various camera angles that they use. There are still a bunch of questions, mainly about Minato's past, to be answered which will hopefully be addressed soon. I really do hope those twins get some form of comeuppance because even though they are skilled, their attitudes would be viewed as unsportsmanlike to many.

More Archery General Knowledge:

For any who were wondering about the scoring system that Minato was using to record the results.

Results are recorded as if you were facing the target.
Hits are marked with a circle in the square.
The Dot in the circle marks were on the target the arrow hit..
Misses are marked with a Dot in the center of the square.
The Numbers displayed on a missed shot are based on the face of an Analog Clock. Those old time telling devices that have a 12 on the top and a 6 on the bottom. They have nothing to do with distance and are more to tell shooters the direction they need to adjust their aim.

So based off this we can recreate the series of shots made by each person as well as glimpse into the probable mindset of the shooters.

All of Seo's arrows hit the target, but the sequence tells an interesting story.
Her First arrow hit, but it landed high and to the right of center.
Her Second arrow also hit and was also to the right, but was lower than the first and more along the horizontal center line. So she was able to repeat everything she did before, but adjusted her aim just a little lower.
Her Third arrow hit basically along the same horizontal line as her second arrow, but was now to the left of center. This shows that she has good form and can make slight adjustments, but she over corrected a bit when she moved her aim more to the left of her second shot.
Her Fourth shot finally hits center. It wasn't dead center, but we are talking a target 28 meters away that's about 14 inches across with a center white that is only a couple inches wide.

Hanazawa's first shot was to the right and a little high of center of the target at 2 o'clock.
Her second shot was to the right and a little low of center of the target at 4 o'clock.
So she is hitting to the right and therefore needs to adjust more to the left.
Her third shot was center, but low of the target at 6 o'clock.
At that point she has made the correct adjustment to the left, but needs to aim higher to hit.
Her Fourth shot finally hits. She lands high on center white, but a good solid hit

Shiragiku, sadly, missed all her shots.
Her First, Second and Third shot all land to the right of the target and a below the center line.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing as all those arrows are grouped fairly close to each other.
This indicates that her form is fairly consistent. If her First had landed, there is a good chance that all the others would have hit the same area.
Her Fourth shot reflects her frustration and nerves as she drastically overcompensated and hits wide left of the target.
Considering that that was the first time Shiragiku was in a competition setting she did fairly well. She wasn't that far off the target and she could have done worse. She could have been totally off the mark and aiming at someone else's target. Her form seems good and her aim adjustments will improve with time and practice. By next year, or even by the next tournament she could be a formidable rival.
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Merida



Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 1945
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:27 am Reply with quote
My guess would have been that Minato's injury (and target panic) wasn't caused by Shuu shooting him in the stomach but is somehow related to his mother's death instead, but what do I know...

And those twins are irritating as hell, but Kacchan is still best boy.
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Merida



Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 1945
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:40 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
There's nonstop tension in these interactions because I still don't trust either Shu or Seiya.


Well, Shuu appears to be pretty straightforward to me? He recognizes Minato as a worthy rival (in a completely heterosexual way...) and wants the both of them to push each other to success while Seiya hiding in the bushes in order to "protect" Minato is creeping me out quite a bit to be honest...
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