Forum - View topicAnswerman - Why Are DVDs and Blu-rays Sold As Combo Packs?
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One-Eye
 Posts: 2261 |
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I used to love combo packs. I did a lot of traveling with my laptop which only had a dvd player and I could watch my anime in a hotel room. At home I had a plasma with a stand alone DVD player for quite some time because I couldn't justify the cost a BD player early in the formats life. To me having a combo pack meant that down the road when I upgraded to a BD player I wouldn't have to go out and re-buy a bunch of titles. While Sony won the format war with the strategy of selling their PlayStations with BD players, I was not a console gamer so that wasn't an incentive for me.
I never actually thought that DVDs in combos were doubling (as some did) the price. To me it was mostly a marketing ploy to make people feel like they were getting something extra. As far as standalone DVD sets the market for them has lasted because not everyone was in an economic position to buy BDs. Not only that but you don't really need to splurge on HD quality for some kids show that your 4 year old loves watching. A cheap DVD will work just fine, they aren't going to be complaining that it isn't Dolby Atmos. However, it does seem we are reaching a tipping point where the DVD format adds no value in consumers eyes. For myself, I now prefer BD only mainly for space saving and streaming has gotten fast enough since the early days that I don't need to use a DVD player in my laptop to watch stuff on the road.
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Kadmos1
 Posts: 13552 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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I am more of a streaming person. However, your asterisked points are perhaps often overlooked by those preferring Blu-Ray though one would think that such points would be better on most Blu-Rays by now. |
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redranger
 Posts: 271 |
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I [expletive] hate combo packs.
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Shiflan
 Posts: 418 |
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Yep, that's the crux of it for sure. My concern is that there is a long-established history of features disappearing from consumer electronics as the manufacturers figure out what functionality they can cut to save money. For example, compare a modern DVD or BD player to the early models: today's have far fewer outputs. Or compare a later version of a video game console to the earlier editions of that same console: expansion ports, extra A/V outputs, have a very bad habit of disappearing. It all comes down to how long it will take for that extra laser required for backwards compatibility to get dropped from a BD player. Of course we have no idea how long it will be before that happens, but given the small (in my experience anyway) price difference it seems silly not to err on the safer side of that bet. |
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Shiflan
Posts: 418 |
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Yes, the packaging is more expensive but that cost is trivial compared to the markup involved. You're talking only a few cents (probably less than 10) out of a product that sells for $20 or more. |
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Stampeed Valkyrie
 Posts: 826 Location: PA |
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After reading through all the posts prior to mine, some very good points are made.
1.) Blu-ray players will play DVDs. 2.) Anime prior to 2005(ish) really does not merit Blu-ray.. and most from this period are not upscaled to blu-ray.. (nadesico is a great example) 3.) Blu-ray is here to stay for the time being. But DVD is not obsolete. I like the combo packs.. it allows me to loan out the DVD to someone and not care if it comes back all knarfled. For those that still don't have one.. companies are moving away from DVDs. Sentai is a great example of this. The cost of Blu-ray players is very reasonable, but keep your DVD player around as a backup. |
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Shiflan
Posts: 418 |
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Oh yeah, one thing I forgot to mention: The encryption on DVD has been cracked for a long time. As far as I know that hasn't happened to BD yet, at least not on a practical scale. That fact alone is a major reason why the industry is shifting towards BD. It may not be much of a concern for niche markets like anime, but it certainly is a big deal for hollywood movies, and those drive the industry as a whole. |
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Another major reason for HD-DVD's loss in the format wars, and one I believe is an even bigger factor, is the fact that the HD-DVD encryption was broken very early on. That being said, this was partially the fault of the people in charge of the HD-DVD format, considering they were boasting about how it was unbreakable and that they spent US$1 billion on it, which some skilled codebreakers took as a challenge, and they succeeded. This meant that, since the encryption key is easily available over the Internet (and this was because the MPAA stepped in and threatened everyone on the Internet to not publicly reveal it--the Internet being what it is, they instead spread it even more until the MPAA finally gave up and admitted defeat), HD-DVD is a much, much less secure medium than Blu-Ray. This is a huge deal for media companies, enough to be what tips the scales. We'd probably be talking about DVDs versus HD-DVDs here if it weren't for the HD-DVD people opening their big mouths.
The people who make movies and TV shows, and the people who make these players, definitely know a lot more than we do about these matters. I'm not a prognosticator, so all we can really do is see what they continue to do.
Sony's people are wise enough not to talk about Blu-Ray encryption, resulting in there being comparatively little interest in breaking that encryption. I'm sure there are people out there who, if they really wanted to, could break Blu-Ray encryption like they did HD-DVD. Maybe they have but there's not enough interest to make that knowledge widespread. I'm still seeing DVD releases of every major Hollywood movie though. Season sets of TV shows are also still predominantly DVD, as are movies and TV shows aimed at kids. |
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EricJ2
 Posts: 4016 |
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The techies believe it was "Faulty encryption" that sank HDDVD, the core fans believe it was Transformers--and the limited storage not leaving enough room for quality audio--that finally yanked the pants off the emperor... But those of us who were there remember how publicly obnoxious Toshiba was making themselves in the format war, long after a majority of studios had defected to the better storage, durability and versatility of Blu. (HD-DVD had Microsoft coding, and MS was very, very interested in seeing HD win the war, as that meant MS would corner the market on all future digital movies, disk and streaming...Disney, OTOH, had Steve Jobs on their board via Pixar, and Steve wanted to make sure the MP4-based Blu coding was the future.) By the end of '07, analysts were predicting that if HD-DVD mule-headedly stayed in the war for six more months, customer interest in HD video at all would be destroyed, and there'd be no Blu or HD to fight over by the end of '08. And if you've ever wondered how the "Angry Hitler YouTube Video" was invented, some of us remember the very, very first one being created the day Warner finally pulled their HD-DVD support, just after Toshiba bragged that HD would be around as long as Warner supported them...It helps if you also know the specific in-context scene from "Downfall". 
(By the end of '07, the majority of consumers were saying "A plague on both your houses", and trying to create dual-format technology that would play both disks. Warner tried to hang on long enough to create dual-format "TotalHD" disks that would play in both Blu and HD players, and when they couldn't make it happen, bye-bye HD-DVD, and hello Angry-Hitler Toshiba. Blu-ray fans have celebrated January 4 '08, "W-Day", ever since.) |
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DerekL1963
 Subscriber Posts: 1113 Location: Puget Sound |
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A player only needs one output, maybe two if you send video and audio to different destinations. So why did older players have more outputs? Simple, even as late as a decade ago there were three (or was it four?, it's late and I'm tired) different formats for TV inputs. Today, most of those are obsolete. (Not obsolescent - completely obsolete.) There's no reason for a player to have them anymore when so few TV's are sold with them anymore. |
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Shiflan
Posts: 418 |
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Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I want to send the video signal to my TV (of course), but I want a separate audio output, analog, so I can send the audio to my stereo which is far superior to the TV's built-in speakers. A few years ago even the cheapest player had that. These days you have to work to find analog audio out, despite it being the standard years ago. I doubt very many people use more than one video output, but there's still the case to be made for having multiple outputs on the player to increase the chances of having the correct one for a given user's TV. It doens't help much if the player has only HDMI while your TV needs component in, for example.
You're exactly right. And just as how old format connections have become obsolete, one day the DVD compatability will be too. The logic is exactly the same: remove a less-used feature to save a buck or two in parts cost. Of course today DVDs are not obsolete, but at some point in the future they will be. |
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 9839 Location: Virginia |
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@Shiflan
If you are trying to drag really old systems into current use, I can see where the additional inputs and outputs might be handy. However, my receiver is over a decade old and has HDMI inputs. My Bluray player, DVD player, ROKU, and cable box all have HDMI outputs and are routed through the receiver. As an added benefit, turning on the Bluray player will turn on the receiver which turns on the TV and shuts off the TV speakers. I think you will find that the backward compatibility of a Bluray player to play DVDs and CDs will be more akin to record players. They retained the ability to play 78 and 45 rpm records right up until the end. Only the most high end turntables dropped the 78 compatibility, mostly due to the need for a separate cartridge for the older media. There are a lot of people out there with large catalogs of DVDs and CDs. Unlike most electronics, disk based media will not die of old age. Properly stored and handled they will likely be playable for many additional decades. |
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Shiflan
Posts: 418 |
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I'm not. I'm just stating that one day in the future DVD compatibility will become an obsolete feature and will vanish. Maybe that's in 5 years, maybe it's in 20 years. But at some point it will happen, so why not err on the safe side, especially given the relatively low premium one has to pay for a BD. I'm not saying it will happen anytime soon, but one day it will.
I am extremely familiar with turntables. Most dropped the 78 feature, it wasn't just high-end models. My backup turntable and the three my family still has are all basic models and none of those play 78s. My expensive one one doesn't either. Standard turntables played/play 45s and 33s. But I don't think that example is quite the same here. A turntable needs a stepped pulley or an electronic switch to change speeds depending on if it is belt drive or direct drive. That costs pretty much nothing. A player which can do both DVD and BD needs a fairly expensive laser to be added in order to play both discs. The financial pressure to drop the DVD playback is higher.
Agreed. My point is simply that given today's prices there seems little reason to hang on to DVD. What's the motivation to do so? To save a buck or two per disc and avoid buying a $30 player? If my budget was tight enough that a couple of bucks mattered then I don't think I'd be buying non-essentials like entertainment at all. I don't have a problem with old formats. Heck, the majority of my anime is on laserdisc of all things. My point is that if you're making a new purchase for a title that's in print and you have the choice between BD and DVD there seems to be little reason, other than stubbornness, to choose DVD these days. I'm sure some people have special circumstances that make that choice different for them, and that's fine. But generally speaking the choice of DVD over BD seems odd. Will people be able to keep playing DVDs after the format is dead? Of course, just the same as I manage to keep playing LDs long after that format died. But why make things more difficult on yourself when you don't have to? It's one thing to be forced to use an old format for out-of-print collectables you can't get any other way, or if you already have a large extant library that you don't want to (or can't afford to) repurchase. But when you are making new purchases all that goes out the window. When you can choose between two formats which are very close in price but one has obvious advantages in terms of future-proofing as well as quality, it seems illogical not to choose that one. |
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One-Eye
Posts: 2261 |
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 9839 Location: Virginia |
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@Shiflan
I agree with you that people should be moving to Blu-ray if they are able to. I just don't think that backward compatibility will disappear anytime soon. If new players can be sold as cheap as $30 the parts necessary to maintain such compatibility can't be all that expensive. I think it is more likely that a new format will replace Blu-ray before that happens. |
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