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GAME: Pokémon: Let's Go!


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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:10 pm Reply with quote
Showsni wrote:
The game seems to assume you'll do Koga before Sabrina, based on the order of the badges in the save screen. Fuchsia's always such a long trek away, though (especially from the Lavender end), so it's generally easier to clear out Silph Co. and do the Saffron gym first.

I'd say this game was pretty easy, but then, all the main game potions of Pokémon games are pretty easy. With grinding, pretty much anything can win the games. This one did take it to another level with how weak some of the trainers are, though; single level 3 Rattata that is invariably going to be one shot by Eevee's Tackle is not exactly a challenge. Still, it was pretty fun, and a nice throwback to Pokémon Yellow. Did feel a little weird having the all the new up to Gen 7 stuff (Fairy/Dark/Steel types, new moves, Special Att/Def split, Special/Physical move split, etc) mixed in with Gen 1 stuff (no abilities, no hold items, only the first 151 (plus Meltan line)). Enjoy Earthquaking Weezing whilst you can!


True. I did notice Koga's silhouette before Sabrina's. I'm guessing it was the team's way of addressing Sabrina being an unusually difficult Gym Leader back in the day, but the reason back then was because there were no real checks to the Psychic-type. With those aforementioned up-to-Gen-7 stuff, there ARE checks and she wouldn't be as difficult to beat as she used to be, though said checks are still out of the way in that you have to trade with NPCs for Alolan Pokémon. I've heard from some people, though, of some difficulties fulfilling Koga's Gym's requirement of spoiler[50 species in the Pokédex], particularly those who don't play Pokémon GO...which I think was missing the point.

(We're splitting hairs here, but there are plenty of ways to hit Weezing with Earthquake in the games with Abilities. But I'm speaking as someone who has a comprehensive understanding of Pokémon games' mechanics, and I'm sure you know of those ways too.)

As for the difficulty of this game, it is pretty low, but I think it should be that way, as this is a gateway game, so they should go easy on the people coming into this franchise through Let's Go. It makes me wonder if they're going to dramatically increase the difficulty of the 2019 games if they're taking the strategy of alternating releases between newcomers and the existing audience. This was the approach taken by SEGA making Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces. Forces was aimed at the Sonic fans who play for the lore and the story, not so much for the gameplay, so it's incredibly easy with a lot of handholding (even on the game's "Hard Mode"), whereas Sonic Mania is for longtime fans who may have fallen off the wagon, and it has a difficulty comparable to the 16-bit games.

Showsni wrote:
Making all the evolution stones repeatable is good too (Moon Stones respawn at Mt. Moon every day), and letting you find extra Master Balls in Cerulean Cave might not exactly mesh with the in game story (I thought there was only one of these?) but is welcome from a gameplay perspective. Being able to find additional copies of Pokémon that are traditionally only able to be found once is nice too (extra legendary birds, Hitmons, Eevees, Fossils, etc). One thing I do miss is the breeding mechanics - I don't think it would have been too hard to add Eggs, would it?


I feel like Game Freak's kind of given up any pretense that Silph could only make one Master Ball, though it seems they kept that line in there anyway. Maybe they hoped you'd forget about it by the time you can get another Master Ball, kind of like the GS Ball in the anime. (One could argue that in most of the subsequent generations, as they're set after the Kanto games, Silph has found a way to make multiple ones, albeit in very low quantities, though it doesn't explain the Hoenn games, which is set at the same time as the Kanto games but has a lottery where you can win more Master Balls, or possibly Black and White which may even be set before the Kanto games.)

They may have left out breeding as it wasn't present in the original games, and without a means of fast travel you can always use, and without the incubator Abilities, they may have deemed it annoying to play.
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Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:19 am Reply with quote
I'm also somewhat of a newbie to the Pokemon games though I have had more experience than the reviewer. I grew up playing the original Pokemon Yellow and I did once have Black and White. I lost my copies though a long time ago along with some other DS games I had, so I never got to play them much. Outside of that, my main experience with Pokemon has been through the anime, which I'm also just now getting back into through the new movies and Sun and Moon. I haven't got to play Let's Go yet but I'm really looking forward to it. As someone who is an extremely casual fan of Pokemon, I am actually looking forward to skipping some of the grinding aspect. I remember as a kid always spending like half an hour on Route 1 leveling up Pidgey and Rattata when I just wanted to move on in the game, so I'm glad that aspect will be faster. I'm also already impressed by the graphics and I love the inclusion of Jessie and James and Meowth in the game. Are you able to catch the original three starter Pokemon in either version of the game?
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Showsni



Joined: 13 May 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:26 pm Reply with quote
Cardcaptor Takato wrote:
Are you able to catch the original three starter Pokemon in either version of the game?


Yes, all three are available in both editions - they're given to you for free in the same places they are in the original Yellow, but you can also find them in the wild. (They're rare in the wild, but by building up a catch chain you can make them much more common.)
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Aquasakura



Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:21 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:

It might be the lack of Abilities. This was such a game-changer when it was introduced in Generation III that it definitely feels weird to play without having to account for them. There are some Generation I Pokémon whom you'd face or use totally differently with their Ability than without, like Gyarados with Intimidate or Dugtrio with Arena Trap. They add a layer to Pokémon battling that, as it stands to me nowadays, feels off when they aren't present.


I have not been relying on the abilities of pokémon as much (or as I should in a way), but I can see that being an issue some people would have with this game. In fact the one main problem with the creation of Pokémon Let’s Go Pikachu/Eevee is that with Game Freak trying to make the games to be close the original Pokémon Yellow Version as possible (as well as reasonably) they had to take a step backwards by means of not as much of the features that have come to be a part of the Pokémon core games over the years. While it’s not a personal problem for me I think they did not need to go that far in recreating the experience of playing Pokémon Yellow Version (especially when they are willing to add natures and mega evolution to the games).

leafy sea dragon wrote:

Yeah, I see this game as a great starting point for those who feel that Pokémon games might have become too complicated for them. (That being said, I blame a subset of fans who like to make Pokémon games appear as complicated as possible. It only gets that complicated if you intend to play in official tournaments or want to place at or near the top of Wi-Fi events and such.)


Yeah, I have been noticing a bit that some people seem to have this misunderstanding of the mainline Pokémon games and it's such a shame. The core Pokémon games have always been easy generally speaking. There are times when the difficulty does spike (the last time I recall this happening for me was during my last major play through of Pokémon Ultra Sun when me, Moon (which I named Sun in my play through) and our pokémon team went up against Ultra Necrozma, which level was around in the early 60s while our team’s mean levels were in the 40s. Making things more complicated I did not have a clue of its weaknesses at the start of the battle), but otherwise they are games I think anyone regardless of their gaming level can get through. Plus as you imply certain aspects of the games (natures and IVs) are only relevant if one is playing those games for competitive play, and are not needed to know in depth if one just wants to play through the main and possible post games.

leafy sea dragon wrote:

By the way, there is currently a divide among Pokémon fans between having overworld encounters and random encounters. I can see the appeal from both ends.


I think I recall hearing about this disagreement but I am not sure. I am on the side that is with the idea of having pokémon appear in the over world as it makes the environment more alive as well as easy in terms of avoiding unnecessary/undesirable encounters, but I am curious to know why some people have an issue with this idea.

leafy sea dragon wrote:
This was the approach taken by SEGA making Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces. Forces was aimed at the Sonic fans who play for the lore and the story, not so much for the gameplay, so it's incredibly easy with a lot of handholding (even on the game's "Hard Mode"), whereas Sonic Mania is for longtime fans who may have fallen off the wagon, and it has a difficulty comparable to the 16-bit games.


I thought Sonic Forces was made for those who love/grew up with the 3D games the most, but I can see that being the case as well. I do not think they needed to have made the games that easy though to achieve that need.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Cardcaptor Takato wrote:
I remember as a kid always spending like half an hour on Route 1 leveling up Pidgey and Rattata when I just wanted to move on in the game, so I'm glad that aspect will be faster.



May I ask as to why you felt compelled to leveling up your pokémon in route 1 before moving on? You did not really needed to have devoted your time to grinding levels for your team that soon in the game until you have reach the city where the first gym was located. Was this so you could have had a balance level team from the start?
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Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:24 pm Reply with quote
In Yellow, you had to start with Pikachu of course, and Brock was too hard to beat with an electric type. Even if Pikachu learns Quick attack, Pikachu would always be too vulnerable to Brock's Pokemon. So I would always spend a lot of time leveling up Pidgey and Rattata to use against Brock.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:28 pm Reply with quote
Cardcaptor Takato wrote:
In Yellow, you had to start with Pikachu of course, and Brock was too hard to beat with an electric type. Even if Pikachu learns Quick attack, Pikachu would always be too vulnerable to Brock's Pokemon. So I would always spend a lot of time leveling up Pidgey and Rattata to use against Brock.


Actually, if you go west of Viridian City (Route 21, I think), you can find wild Mankey there. That's the real key to defeating Brock. Except to level up Mankey to keep up with the rest of your team, no grinding needs to be done.

Aquasakura wrote:

I have not been relying on the abilities of pokémon as much (or as I should in a way), but I can see that being an issue some people would have with this game. In fact the one main problem with the creation of Pokémon Let’s Go Pikachu/Eevee is that with Game Freak trying to make the games to be close the original Pokémon Yellow Version as possible (as well as reasonably) they had to take a step backwards by means of not as much of the features that have come to be a part of the Pokémon core games over the years. While it’s not a personal problem for me I think they did not need to go that far in recreating the experience of playing Pokémon Yellow Version (especially when they are willing to add natures and mega evolution to the games).


Heh, all right then. Having seen more of this game, I definitely see that the lack of wild Pokémon battles has affected a bunch of other things in the game too, such as capturing Snorlax and Legendary Pokémon, as well as the Self Destruct and Explosion Voltorbs and Electrodes in the Team Rocket places. (Self Destruct and Explosion had been nerfed heavily in the time in between though, so I don't think they'd really have quite as big an impact, no pun intended, on the player as major obstacles. The ones belonging to Team Rocket members had been rendered incredibly ineffective, for instance.)

In hindsight, I probably go through a Pokémon game fairly differently than the norm. I swap out Pokémon rather frequently, and a Pokémon with an interesting Ability tends to be a pretty big draw for me to use. This has resulted in me doing stuff like hunting for Hidden Abilities as I'm still going through the game and picking something interesting, like my Sweet Veil Ribombee.

Aquasakura wrote:
Yeah, I have been noticing a bit that some people seem to have this misunderstanding of the mainline Pokémon games and it's such a shame. The core Pokémon games have always been easy generally speaking. There are times when the difficulty does spike (the last time I recall this happening for me was during my last major play through of Pokémon Ultra Sun when me, Moon (which I named Sun in my play through) and our pokémon team went up against Ultra Necrozma, which level was around in the early 60s while our team’s mean levels were in the 40s. Making things more complicated I did not have a clue of its weaknesses at the start of the battle), but otherwise they are games I think anyone regardless of their gaming level can get through. Plus as you imply certain aspects of the games (natures and IVs) are only relevant if one is playing those games for competitive play, and are not needed to know in depth if one just wants to play through the main and possible post games.


Ultra Necrozma is definitely one of the toughest bosses in any main series game, but you can still do it if you come prepared. The biggest thing about Pokémon games and their approachability is that you can save at any time, and in Ultra Necrozma's case, Rotom Dex advises you to save before fighting it. Hence, if you fail, you can try again after several seconds.

But the most compelling argument I have about Pokémon games and their approchability is that every new generation brings in millions of people, the greatest amount being the very young, who can get through these games just fine. If THEY can clear the game, then so can a grown-up. The most important knowledge you can have going into these games is literacy in the language you set it to. Anything that can be helpful for you will be explained in the game. In turn, anything that can't be explained by giving you easy examples first (known in video game parlance as an "antepiece") is explained outright (the most famous example in Pokémon being that man in Viridian City who teaches you how to throw Poké Balls).

Brock is a good example of an antepiece. His purpose, looking in as a player, is to teach you the importance of type matchups. He uses the Rock-type, a type that has many weaknesses and is characterized by low Speed but has resistance to Normal and Flying, two attack types the player is extremely likely to have. His Pokémon, Geodude and Onix, both have very low Attack. In addition, both of them have the Ground-type, giving them a 4x weakness to Water and Grass. All of this together, Brock's team gives the player plenty of time to try whatever moves they have and see what works. This is particularly true in Red/Blue/Green, where if you start with Squirtle or Bulbasaur, you'll see how much more damage Water Gun or Vine Whip does to Brock's Pokémon than anything else you could have at the moment. The player, through the battle to get the Boulder Badge, learns to associate the phrase "It's super effective!" (or whatever the language's equivalent is) with something to strive to do. (Incidentally, notice that, with the exception of Olivia, every Rock-type specialist is fought at or near the beginning of the game.)

I butt heads with the fans who like to play up the complicatedness of Pokémon a lot, as I personally feel, in their attempts to show themselves off, they are scaring away people who would otherwise be interested.

Aquasakura wrote:
I think I recall hearing about this disagreement but I am not sure. I am on the side that is with the idea of having pokémon appear in the over world as it makes the environment more alive as well as easy in terms of avoiding unnecessary/undesirable encounters, but I am curious to know why some people have an issue with this idea.


I'd prefer them being in the overworld too. The ones who argue for random encounters walking in the tall grass mainly state that they want rare encounters to be special by extending the amount of time it takes between seeing them, that random encounters don't walk out of the tall grass the way the overworld encounters do, that overworld encounters spoil the surprise of what's available, that they make the game feel shorter as you can avoid battles, and that certain regions meant to wear you down like Rock Tunnel or Victory Road have their impacts lessened.

Overworld encounters in Let's Go are not perfect--Pokémon can still spawn right underneath the player, they can block areas you might need to progress (really problematic if you're a thread away from losing), some Pokémon move very fast and are unavoidable if they dash your way (especially Raticate), and there are issues with Pokémon who are really big (that they're hard to get around) or really small (that they're hard to see). I think that's the biggest cause of the divide. There may be issues with particular abilities too, such as Illuminate or Cute Charm, but I'm not sure.

Aquasakura wrote:
I thought Sonic Forces was made for those who love/grew up with the 3D games the most, but I can see that being the case as well. I do not think they needed to have made the games that easy though to achieve that need.


The Sonic fans who play for the story and lore and the ones who grew up with the 3-D games have very large overlap and are almost the same group of fans, as the first game to really be story-heavy and focus on the lore, Sonic Adventure, was also the first non-isometric 3-D Sonic game. Though there is no need to be that easy (Sonic Unleashed could be as tough as nails in some parts), I think the people who prefer Sonic Forces over Sonic Mania also tend to be the sort who play the stages mainly to get to the next bit of story, rather than playing the stages being an end unto itself.
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Aquasakura



Joined: 01 Jan 2014
Posts: 700
Location: Chesterfield, Virginia, U.S.A
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:31 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:

In hindsight, I probably go through a Pokémon game fairly differently than the norm. I swap out Pokémon rather frequently, and a Pokémon with an interesting Ability tends to be a pretty big draw for me to use. This has resulted in me doing stuff like hunting for Hidden Abilities as I'm still going through the game and picking something interesting, like my Sweet Veil Ribombee.


It seems you are more of a competitive player (or at least one that makes use of the game mechanics more so then casual players). I can imagine searching for a pokémon with a hidden ability must be time consuming given how rare they are. For me it seems like the equivalent of hunting for shinnies, except in this case it hopes to reap something useful.

leafy sea dragon wrote:

Ultra Necrozma is definitely one of the toughest bosses in any main series game, but you can still do it if you come prepared. The biggest thing about Pokémon games and their approachability is that you can save at any time, and in Ultra Necrozma's case, Rotom Dex advises you to save before fighting it. Hence, if you fail, you can try again after several seconds.


That is true. I did manage to beat it on my first go however thanks to having a pokémon that it was weak against which turn the tide of battle. I have not had a battle like that since that time I and Hilda face off against Ghestsis in Pokémon White Version, which was up until I face Ultra Necrozma the toughest pokémon battle I dealt with in the core Pokémon games (that battle was also won in one go thankfully as the White version was not generous enough to allow one to save after catching one of the legendary dragon pokémon in the Unova Region).

leafy sea dragon wrote:

But the most compelling argument I have about Pokémon games and their approchability is that every new generation brings in millions of people, the greatest amount being the very young, who can get through these games just fine. If THEY can clear the game, then so can a grown-up. The most important knowledge you can have going into these games is literacy in the language you set it to. Anything that can be helpful for you will be explained in the game. In turn, anything that can't be explained by giving you easy examples first (known in video game parlance as an "antepiece") is explained outright (the most famous example in Pokémon being that man in Viridian City who teaches you how to throw Poké Balls).

Brock is a good example of an antepiece. His purpose, looking in as a player, is to teach you the importance of type matchups. He uses the Rock-type, a type that has many weaknesses and is characterized by low Speed but has resistance to Normal and Flying, two attack types the player is extremely likely to have. His Pokémon, Geodude and Onix, both have very low Attack. In addition, both of them have the Ground-type, giving them a 4x weakness to Water and Grass. All of this together, Brock's team gives the player plenty of time to try whatever moves they have and see what works. This is particularly true in Red/Blue/Green, where if you start with Squirtle or Bulbasaur, you'll see how much more damage Water Gun or Vine Whip does to Brock's Pokémon than anything else you could have at the moment. The player, through the battle to get the Boulder Badge, learns to associate the phrase "It's super effective!" (or whatever the language's equivalent is) with something to strive to do. (Incidentally, notice that, with the exception of Olivia, every Rock-type specialist is fought at or near the beginning of the game.)


I agree and in terms of literacy I think Pokémon is one of those games that can be good for helping young children with reading (assuming they are not one of those people who skip dialogue). Concerning Brock and the other gym leaders that specialize in rock pokémon serving as this antepiece I never thought of it like that. That is interesting!

leafy sea dragon wrote:

I butt heads with the fans who like to play up the complicatedness of Pokémon a lot, as I personally feel, in their attempts to show themselves off, they are scaring away people who would otherwise be interested.


It shows how passionate you are with this franchise (at least I feel). Anime smile


leafy sea dragon wrote:

I'd prefer them being in the overworld too. The ones who argue for random encounters walking in the tall grass mainly state that they want rare encounters to be special by extending the amount of time it takes between seeing them, that random encounters don't walk out of the tall grass the way the overworld encounters do, that overworld encounters spoil the surprise of what's available, that they make the game feel shorter as you can avoid battles, and that certain regions meant to wear you down like Rock Tunnel or Victory Road have their impacts lessened.

Overworld encounters in Let's Go are not perfect--Pokémon can still spawn right underneath the player, they can block areas you might need to progress (really problematic if you're a thread away from losing), some Pokémon move very fast and are unavoidable if they dash your way (especially Raticate), and there are issues with Pokémon who are really big (that they're hard to get around) or really small (that they're hard to see). I think that's the biggest cause of the divide. There may be issues with particular abilities too, such as Illuminate or Cute Charm, but I'm not sure.


I see. I can understand the issue with wanting the encounters to be special by extending the time to take to find them and that the feature can potentially make the game shorter, but then with former there is still the fact that certain pokémon are rare time (like what I was dealing with in searching for a bulbasaur in Viridian Forest the last time I played the game), and for the latter, as you mention, their cases in which pokémon can get in player’s way therefore potentially extending the time it takes to get through the game (specifically the areas that serve as dungeons to the games).

leafy sea dragon wrote:

The Sonic fans who play for the story and lore and the ones who grew up with the 3-D games have very large overlap and are almost the same group of fans, as the first game to really be story-heavy and focus on the lore, Sonic Adventure, was also the first non-isometric 3-D Sonic game. Though there is no need to be that easy (Sonic Unleashed could be as tough as nails in some parts), I think the people who prefer Sonic Forces over Sonic Mania also tend to be the sort who play the stages mainly to get to the next bit of story, rather than playing the stages being an end unto itself.


Alright!
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:03 am Reply with quote
Aquasakura wrote:
It seems you are more of a competitive player (or at least one that makes use of the game mechanics more so then casual players). I can imagine searching for a pokémon with a hidden ability must be time consuming given how rare they are. For me it seems like the equivalent of hunting for shinnies, except in this case it hopes to reap something useful.


Actually, I'm a Johnny type player--that is, I play multiplayer battles using Pokémon not commonly used. Since I'm often at an information disadvantage as those Pokémon aren't as well-documented as the likes of Toxapex or Mega Kangaskhan, I often have to come up with team-building and battling strategies on my own, and that also means I have to understand every single fully-evolved Pokémon (and some not-fully-evolved ones) as well as possible.

For instance, over Generation VII, I was one of the few people to enter the wi-fi competitions with Furfrou, at least where it's allowed. According to the Pokémon Global Link, the number of Furfrous in the events were in the single digits each. I was also the only one to have a non-stalling Furfrou, and instead one focused on attacking. (I can't tell if any of them were trimmed though. Me, I always make sure my Furfrou is trimmed when brought into battle.)

Aquasakura wrote:
I agree and in terms of literacy I think Pokémon is one of those games that can be good for helping young children with reading (assuming they are not one of those people who skip dialogue). Concerning Brock and the other gym leaders that specialize in rock pokémon serving as this antepiece I never thought of it like that. That is interesting!


Yep, if you play a game with mechanics you're not familiar with, but you get the hang of it quickly and well, look for antepieces. That's a key part of teaching you how to play a game without the designers having to explain it to you directly. The best tutorials are the ones where you don't even realize it's a tutorial.
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Aquasakura



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:35 am Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Actually, I'm a Johnny type player--that is, I play multiplayer battles using Pokémon not commonly used. Since I'm often at an information disadvantage as those Pokémon aren't as well-documented as the likes of Toxapex or Mega Kangaskhan, I often have to come up with team-building and battling strategies on my own, and that also means I have to understand every single fully-evolved Pokémon (and some not-fully-evolved ones) as well as possible.


I never heard of this kind of player known as Johnny. I was thinking at first this was a reference to one of the people I watch on youtube who has the name Johnny, but thinking about it I take it that is not the case. Anyway it’s nice to hear of someone who uses different pokémon in multilayer batters. It seems that people much rather stick with pokémon that are the most likely to get them through matches resulting in players using the same kind of pokémon which gets boring after a while (even if those pokémon have different moves from each other). However this is because typically the only time I watch multiplayer batters in during the Pokémon World tournament which I see this happen. I barely play multiplayer as I have not fully build my team to handle battling players online and been neglecting that. While I think I should get back to it, I do not know if it would be a bit too late as by then the next generation would arrive and people might move on the latest Pokémon games (that is unless there might still be people who would play the gen seven games afterward).

leafy sea dragon wrote:
Yep, if you play a game with mechanics you're not familiar with, but you get the hang of it quickly and well, look for antepieces. That's a key part of teaching you how to play a game without the designers having to explain it to you directly. The best tutorials are the ones where you don't even realize it's a tutorial.


Alright, I’ll do that. Smile This reminds me of the fact I have been hearing that the Pokemon games have been hand holdy lately. Do you think it’s because Game Freak has abandon using antepieces?
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:05 pm Reply with quote
Aquasakura wrote:

I never heard of this kind of player known as Johnny. I was thinking at first this was a reference to one of the people I watch on youtube who has the name Johnny, but thinking about it I take it that is not the case. Anyway it’s nice to hear of someone who uses different pokémon in multilayer batters. It seems that people much rather stick with pokémon that are the most likely to get them through matches resulting in players using the same kind of pokémon which gets boring after a while (even if those pokémon have different moves from each other). However this is because typically the only time I watch multiplayer batters in during the Pokémon World tournament which I see this happen. I barely play multiplayer as I have not fully build my team to handle battling players online and been neglecting that. While I think I should get back to it, I do not know if it would be a bit too late as by then the next generation would arrive and people might move on the latest Pokémon games (that is unless there might still be people who would play the gen seven games afterward).


The Johnny is one of the three player archetypes classified by Mark Rosewater, lead designer of Magic: The Gathering. The other two are the Timmy and the Spike. This is the full article, but the short of it is as such:

The Timmy plays for the spectacle. A Timmy likes to see big, spectacular things happen, especially if they created the conditions for them to happen. Timmies want to win, but those big, spectacular things come first. This can be something that creates a lot of effects, large amounts of damage, big points, and/or impressive feats of skill, depending on the game. Timmies also want overwhelming victories and are annoyed if the match is close, even if they win.

The Johnny treats the game as an art form. A Johnny also wants to win, but he or she is not satisfied until he or she can win as was intended and are willing to lose as many times as is necessary until that happens. Johnnies want to express their creativity with the game and be memorable to opponents, and as a result, your typical Johnny is highly nonconfirmist. Johnnies also tend to be fond of long, complicated setups due to their difficulty. Unlike the Timmy, the Johnny is most thrilled by neck-and-neck matches and find victories by huge margins boring.

The Spike is the competitive player. To a Spike, winning is the be-all and end-all of playing, and Spikes are not happy if they lose to someone whom they feel don't take the game as seriously as they do or if they lost a match they felt they should've won. You can expect a Spike to observe what other players are doing and mimic the decisions most likely to lead to a win. Spikes dedicate extraordinary amounts of time into the game, and nothing feels more thrilling to a Spike than going on a winning streak.

Rosewater estimates that, among the pure players, Magic usually has about 40% Timmies, 50% Spikes, and 10% Johnnies. I mentioned "pure players," because some players fall into more than one category. A Johnny-Spike or Spike-Johnny, for instance, is the person who enters tournaments with unconventional, off-the-wall ideas. Such a person also really wants to win but do it differently than anyone else. Note that the way I described these archetypes are not specific to any kind of game in particular--if a game provides many choices, and some are more popular than others, there will be Timmies, Johnnies, and Spikes.

Something I should also mention is the relationship between these two types. Timmies get along with the other two, and that's reciprocated, but Johnnies and Spikes, in most games (Pokémon video games included), do not get along well due to their opposite ideas on how they want to play the game and their difficulty in seeing eye to eye with each other. However, Spikes tend to watch Johnnies and pick out the most successful ones to imitate while further refining what thsoe Johnnies have done (which may be the root cause of the antagonism between the two groups).

leafy sea dragon wrote:
YAlright, I’ll do that. Smile This reminds me of the fact I have been hearing that the Pokemon games have been hand holdy lately. Do you think it’s because Game Freak has abandon using antepieces?


Let's Go holds your hand a lot, and to an extent, so do the Alola games. However, they do it through extensive use of antepieces. They are everywhere in main series Pokémon games, and while people might not notice they're there, they might still feel like something is off if there are too many of them.

Let's Go keeps its metaphorical training wheels on, but it does this out of necessity because it's aimed at people who only ever played Pokémon GO prior. You can see this review as an example of it working. For that matter, I've heard from some people that Let's Go might not do it enough. For instance, the effectiveness of type matchups is severely downplayed in Pokémon GO, and there are no type immunities. As a result, many, many people who chose Let's Go, Pikachu! found themselves stuck against Brock because both of his Pokémon are immune to Electric-type attacks.

In the Alola games, the entirety of Melemele Island is made of antepieces. Ilima's trial is an antepiece of upcoming trials, as his trial has a much lower chance of failure than even the following trial (for most people, that'd be Lana's), his Totem Pokémon is far weaker than any other one, and he specializes in the Normal-type, which makes for a good start for different reasons than the Rock-type: It won't teach you much about type effectiveness, but because they're weak only to Fighting, someone not savvy on their types will learn how to handle a prolonged battle, as Totem Raticate/Totem Gumshoos will take a lot longer than any fight prior. The path to Iki Town shows the player why you should always look for paths you haven't explored as they can lead to good things, and the cutscene at Mahalo Trail, Tapu Koko included, show the player that there are things on Melemele Island they can't yet access and should come back to later. Hau'oli City shows what you can expect to find in a city and provides an anchor point for the rest of the game as there are so many things there. The northern routes introduce various Pokémon types (by this point, you've seen Normal, Electric, and Bug Pokémon; the northern routes introduce the Ghost, Flying, Fairy, and Fighting types) and get the player accustomed to Pokémon battling.

Does it go on for too long? For someone who's played a lot of Pokémon games, definitely. But the moment you head to Akala Island, the gloves come off and the game stops being so merciful. Alongside complaints that Melemele is too hand-holding, you'll find just as many complaints and cries for help about Lana's Totem Pokémon (Wishiwashi in Sun and Moon, Araquanid in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon), with some claiming that the Alola games are actually the toughest Pokémon main games to date. (That being said, many people also say that Ilima himself is unusually difficult to beat for a first battle against a League member.)
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Aquasakura



Joined: 01 Jan 2014
Posts: 700
Location: Chesterfield, Virginia, U.S.A
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:37 pm Reply with quote
^ Oh wow! So I take it then that the majority of players I see during the Pokémon Worlds tournaments are classified as Spikes.

As for the difficulty of the recent Pokémon games that would explain why for some or many people those games come off as being too easy. A lot of antepieces. You are right in that Pokémon Let’s Go Pikachu/Eevee has a reason for being easy given the purpose of those games was to ease players whose only experience with a Pokémon game up to now was Go. In fact I am not really surprise if those games are easy though for someone like me who has a play the mainline Pokémon games for years would find this kind of a downer given I like to have something to challenge me, but that is what the upcoming Pokémon games that would start Generation 8 are for. With that said I heard after a while the difficulty does pick up in the Let’s Go games. I have not experience this myself as I am still early in the game given that I stop playing, but not because I got so bored with it that I abandon the game, but I got caught up with things plus Smash. However once I have full access to the roster I do plan to return to Let’s Go and finish what I started.

As for the games that take place in Alola, one could say the entire island of Melemele is one big antepiece. For me I found facing the first totem pokémon to be a bit challenging, but I did manage. The totem pokémon of Akala Island was also difficulty from what I recall, but I manage given I did have a pokémon that had a type advantage against it (it’s been a long time since those matches). From my experience it’s the totem pokémon within the Lush Jungle that people had trouble with, which I experience myself when I played Ultra Sun. The first time I face the totem pokémon of Lush Jungle in Pokémon Sun was uneventful as it got KO by one of my pokémon with a type advantage before it could do anything, which is really the key I found with facing this totem pokémon. Still in Ultra Sun I manage to beat it one go, but it was a pain.
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